Quickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2478 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6417 times:
I would almost think the international routes would be in less jeopardy than the domestics that go head to head with LCCs. Granted DL can't just up an quit NY-Florida, but you might see some cuts there.
DLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3566 posts, RR: 10 Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6371 times:
Quoting PRAirbus (Reply 2): I guess they will take a close look at their Latin America routes as well as their smaller stations in Europe
Completely wrong. In their filing BK filing, they state that they plan to EXPAND their international flying while in Chapter 11. Why would DL reduce their international flying when it is one of the few areas that are profitable for them? The smaller stations in Europe use almost all contract labor, so there is very little fixed cost involved in these flights.
LTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12671 posts, RR: 13 Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6310 times:
Indeed, increasing international flights, with a reduced domestic USA service base, seems to be the only route for the legacies now, including DL and NW. One could see more domestic smaller cities or city pairs served by lower cost subsidies, using >100 pax jets (depending on pilot contracts). Perhaps on might see the use of smaller a/c even internationally, (757's, even 737 with ETOPS revisions) to serve smaller non-USA cities with more non-stop/direct service from key hubs where possible. I would suspect that there will be a substantual reduction in the number of flights by DL going to from Florida from the northeastern USA and leaving it to either Song sub or to the LCC's. I would be willing to bet that NW will transfer a number of their cities to their Pinnicale sub.
Gokmengs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1115 posts, RR: 2 Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6303 times:
Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 4): Completely wrong. In their filing BK filing, they state that they plan to EXPAND their international flying while in Chapter 11. Why would DL reduce their international flying when it is one of the few areas that are profitable for them? The smaller stations in Europe use almost all contract labor, so there is very little fixed cost involved in these flights.
End of discussion.
Easy there! I'm a DL Platinum Medallion, love to fly them but its not easy coming out of bankruptcy there might be cuts everywhere I didn't say the cuts on Intl will happen I said if and in case it happens where.
Quoting PRAirbus (Reply 2): I guess they will take a close look at their Latin America routes as well as their smaller stations in Europe.
Hope they don't cancel IST. I fly it 10+ times a year
Flydl2atl From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 119 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6283 times:
Yea, I agree. I think were likely to see more Int'l flying. Delta has a total of 59 767-300ERs. However, some of them are configured to fly domestically. I think we'll see most of them converted to Int'l layouts by next summer. The net effect of this will be a slight reduction in domestic service since they'll stop sending (or send less) 763's to places like DEN, JAX, TPA in exchange for added frequencies from MD88s and MD90s. Other places like MEM, BHM, JAN, CLT will be seeing less MD88s, MD90s and more RJ's.
DAL767400ER From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 5721 posts, RR: 48 Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6175 times:
Quoting ARGinLON (Reply 7): In addition to this I would imagine JFKEZE is in jeopardy
JFK-EZE has always been in jeopardy because CO's counter-application is more promising.
And about the routes, remember there was only recently a thread about DL growing internationally by 30%, coinciding with the announcement of ATL-DUS/MGA/RTB/TGU. DL has a total of 59 763ERs, of which 8 are currently in domestic configuration. 4 will be converted for the 2006 summer season, and the other 4 one year later, though with the way things are going, they might as well convert all or next year. Then of course there are the 8 777s, which are already used to the max on domestic routes. Then of course you have all the 764s, 763s, 738s, 757s and RJs, which can serve the entire continent from Canada via Lat Am and the Caribbean down to the northernmost airports of South America. DL still has room to grow internationally, and they will use that room, primarily of course from ATL, but also SLC, CVG, JFK, LAX, MCO and BOS (the latter depending on Massport).
ARGinLON From Vatican City, joined Jun 2005, 614 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6113 times:
Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 11): JFK-EZE has always been in jeopardy because CO's counter-application is more promising
Quoting Panamair (Reply 12): Yes, JFK-EZE is in jeopardy, but not because of Ch.11; rather, because the DOT has still not made a decision yet (even though CO proposes to start IAH-EZE in Nov and DL in Dec).
But don't you think that CH11 may influence the DOT when making a decision on JFKEZE? Or is this completely independent to that?
Sebring From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 1661 posts, RR: 15 Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5940 times:
Here's the thing that everybody's missing, and it is the seminal issue for the US airline industry.
1. Every legacy carrier except maybe US is cutting domestic capacity, and putting on more international capacity.
2. Less domestic capacity on the legacies will mean more room for the Southwests and JetBlues to expand domestically, making the remaining domestic legacy route system less profitable/viable.
3. If everybody is adding more international routes, it means the overcapacity problem domestically becomes an overcapacity problem internationally. How many flights to London and Sao Paulo can one adequately fill with compensatory traffic? It's OVERKILL! Complicating things is the U.S. security/visa situation which discourages sixth freedom transit in the U.S.
IMHO, what is needed are a couple of liquidations or mergers in which a large amount of domestic capacity is wrung out - too much too quickly for the discounters to fill overnight - and where all old aircraft are retired ASAP. If you take today's six intl legacy carriers and merged them into three large operations, with only modest increased dependence on international flying, the outcome would be better than making the current six sick puppies financially healthy in a truly sustainable way.
All of you are talking about restructuring that nibbles around the edges and wouldn't pass muster with any rationale economist - like UA's post-Chapter 11 plan which is based on $50 crude and even at that doesn't forecast profitability until 2007. One good pandemic, one good terrorist attack aimed at a U.S. aircraft, and that whole plan is TOAST!
LACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3876 posts, RR: 2 Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5790 times:
I wouldn't be surprised to see DL pull all 763s that are capable of flying internationally off domestic and reconfigure them to fly internationally. It makes since and they can make more $$$$$$$ there.
How many 764s do they have? Are these capable of flying over the pond etc?
RwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3045 posts, RR: 2 Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5687 times:
Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 10):
Hope so too, but what I think DL really lacks in Intl route is Asia,but I don't think its possible with the 767 right?
True that DL is lacking in Asia, but the 767 isn't a good aircraft for Asian service. Additionally, Tokyo for example, is heavily slot restricted and DL probably wouldn't be able to get much of a presence going there. As far as the 767, they could probably do well SEA-Asia or PDX-Asia, but not from SFO or LAS, certainly not from ATL (dunno about SLC, but there isn't enough O&D). Actually SEA might work well as an Asian hub for DL given that they have the feed from AS, and they can codeshare with CI, KE, and NW. Plus from SEA the 767s would have enough range to fly to Japan.
I always thought DL should move all 777s to Asia, adding Hong Kong and Osaka from ATL, and perhaps starting one NRT flight from the west coast. Then move some of the 764s to Europe to make up the lost capacity.
Quoting Lono (Reply 19): I would think ANC and FAI service is on the block.... while not international destinations.... the amount of time DL leaves an A/C sitting unused up here is silly....
Could be. The new partnership with AS would probably be enough, in the low season at least.
25 Gigneil: A 777-200ER would hit ground somewhere in China an hour before reaching HKG from ATL. Osaka, perhaps. DL could just never make their west coast - nrt
26 LipeGIG: Delta in Brazil today inform that loads on GRU-ATL on july was "only" 100% and with very good profits. They are also begining GIG-ATL service next mo
27 Gokmengs: Good idea but I don't know if DL is happy with SLC, I always think that hub could be somewhere else. Just my 2 cents How about routes to China or Ind
28 Lono: Sound interesting.... more flights or bigger A/C??? DL has gone "seasonal" in the past.... only to eventually leave...
29 DeltaMIA: If I said bigger aircraft it would give it away.
30 Jetdeltamsy: i think it's pretty simple. the routes that generate profit will be retained. those that lose money will probably be eliminated. as to which routes in
31 Jkudall: SLC & ATL are Delta's fastest growing hubs, is still growing, and will continue to see growth. I'd say they are happy with it. SLC has and will conti
32 DeltaMIA: It will be announced in due time. Some stations will be losing mainline service. 1 market will lose service all together. A lot of new mainline route
33 HanginOut: Although I don't want to see any liquidations, I have to agree with Sebring. What would be best for the US airline industry would be to see some of t
34 DAL767400ER: I could list quite a few "suspects" in that case, many of which only recently got mainline (back), like GPT (for obvious reasons), PHF, out of ATL, o
35 DeltaMIA: Its mainline There a few domestic surprises Well yes and yes along with a lot of other point to point routes. Time will tell.
36 DAL767400ER: In that case I change my assumption to MDW. The way DL has reduced service there points at an entire withdrawal from said airports. No guessing from
37 RCS763AV: They fly to Tokyo.... I just wish my 23,000 miles dont go down the sink, DL is a good carrier and its dissapereance would create a disaster in the US
38 DAL767400ER: One measly flight per day, and no chance to get any slots for more flights. The last slots DL had at NRT (for LAX and JFK service) they sold to FX, w
39 Incitatus: Yes but this no indication of overall financial success. What will their loads be like in September, when Summer traffic is gone? I had to fly from t
40 Sydscott: I think you've confused capacity with frequency. Alot of capacity reductions have come about by downgrading the aircraft that are operating the secto
41 NYCAAer: Delta is expanding internationally- new routes to Central America have been announced, and Dusseldorf comes on line next year out of ATL. I'll bet we'
42 B4real: TPA will definitely retain 767 service, no question. Not all of the 763's are capable of Int'l routes as the 763-ER. 21. Yes, they are capable of NA-
43 AF022: I found this funny. Out of what, 3 hubs, ATL & SLC are the fastest growing? And the third is being downsized? Hardlyl resounding for SLC. Note also t
44 MAH4546: SLC will be seeing five new destinatons announced in the coming weeks.
45 Lono: OK so you are claiming inside info we will find out soon... My question is your profile says you are very young... Younger than many on this board ha
46 MAH4546: Don't go around assuming just because someone else might be young. You are the one that is looking like a fool here. DeltaMIA knows what he is talkin
47 DeltaMIA: It is a public forum. You can believe me or you can't. I have no need to substantiate any information, but I have a number of users that respect the
48 Flydl2atl: Speaking of new p2p routes why not DCA-TPA...It seems like USAir does well with this. Why waste the slots on HSV-DCA or LEX-DCA. Also what about Int'l
49 Lono: As you can see... I am not "assuming" anything... age is no matter to me...just come clean please.. when I was 23 I was a DL manager... I am no "fool
50 DeltaMIA: Those slots were awarded to DCI in order to serve those markets. Failure to do so will result in the slots going up for grabs again. Hardly. There ar
51 UPSMD11: I would love to see some of the RJ flights leave the SDF-CVG market and possibly add 1 or 2 flights to SLC, opening up the west coast. Mainline would
52 Centrair: If DL were to expand Internationally, they need Asia. Technically a 763ER can make it from SCL to NRT, KIX, NGO, ICN, HKG, and PVG. This type of fligh
53 Mariner: Wow. After reading this thread, every airline should go Chapter 11, because it seems as if Delta is going to continue on its merry path of grow, grow,
54 MAH4546: Under bankruptcy re-orginization, an airline obviously has to realign their route network to make it healtheir and better rounded for the future. Rea
55 DeltaMIA: It isn't grow, grow, grow. Its change, change, change. A capacity increase in one market is the result of a capacity decrease in another.
56 Mariner: So - we've been told of new routes being added - how many routes are being cut? Then if we already knew about two of them, then there are not "five n
57 MAH4546: Well, LGB and MZT have not been officially announced yet. We know about them thanks to the fact that Delta couldn't hide the application process for
58 Mariner: I thank you for the reply, and I appreciate your comment: But that isn't quite what DeltaMIA said: So, I shall stand by and wait for the PR announceme
59 MAH4546: I fail to see why they contradict each other. What we will see is: 1) New routes 2) Routes discontinued 3) Capacity adjustments 4) Frequency adjustme
60 Mariner: I don't want to flog a dead horse here, but there are contradictions. Or - there is a contradiction. You alone listed five new destinations from SLC
61 MAH4546: I'm sure it will all balance out in the end. I have spoken about five new routes from SLC because that is all I know about. I don't know any specific