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AA To End Mainline Service At PIT  
User currently offlineN670UW From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1603 posts, RR: 8
Posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7582 times:

Didn't see this coming.

American Airlines announced plans to pull out of Pittsburgh in December, leaving its flights to its subsidiary, American Eagle.

http://kdka.com/topstories/local_story_258192011.html

A little surprising. Within the last 18 months, American has added a fourth and fifth MD-80 frequency to DFW from PIT, and I was hoping MIA-PIT would return to mainline. I'm guessing the CRJ-700's are on their way.



N670UW

45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2172 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7510 times:

southwest wins another city from aa is the first thought.

User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7498 times:

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 1):
southwest wins another city from aa is the first thought.

HOW???? Explain the logic before you go spewing out WN-loving bullshit. When you can logically explain to me how WN chased AA out of that market I'll be impressed.


User currently offlineSeptember11 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3623 posts, RR: 21
Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7471 times:

What surprises me is that there are NO Airliners.net photo of American Airlines mainline jets at PIT ... I hope I am not mistaken.


Airliners.net of the Future
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 49
Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7456 times:

CLE lost AA mainline last year.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 44
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7438 times:

Quoting N670UW (Thread starter):
Didn't see this coming.

American Airlines announced plans to pull out of Pittsburgh in December, leaving its flights to its subsidiary, American Eagle.

http://kdka.com/topstories/local_story_258192011.html

A little surprising. Within the last 18 months, American has added a fourth and fifth MD-80 frequency to DFW from PIT, and I was hoping MIA-PIT would return to mainline. I'm guessing the CRJ-700's are on their way.



N670UW

No, no, you must be mistaken. The PIT people have clearly stated on numerous occasions that other airlines would pick up the slack from US cutting flights. That's clearly at odds with AA dropping mainline service. Kent George and Dan Onorato won't stand for you spouting such blasphemy.  Silly



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineN670UW From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1603 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7393 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 2):
HOW???? Explain the logic before you go spewing out WN-loving bullshit.

Wow.   



Anyway, I do agree Southwest likely didn't have much of an impact on this decision.

To say the least, it's rather difficult to get to Dallas on WN from Pittsburgh, and I really doubt Southwest draws much of the Pittsburgh-to-Dallas crowd. A nonstop with AA or US is much more convenient, or if you really want a great fare, fly AirTran through Atlanta.

While Southwest is also in the Pittsburgh-Chicago market, AA pulled mainline from that route years ago (or did they ever have mainline on that route?). And directly, AA and WN don't compete, in the Pittsburgh-South Florida market (yet    ).

I would think we could a similar announcement from NW in the coming weeks/months. Northwest has never been especially strong in Pittsburgh, and with the bankruptcy (and the likely returning of airplanes, including DC-9's, to come), I wouldn't be terribly surprised. Though NW maintains a nonstop monopoly on PIT-MSP//MEM, anything is possible.



N670UW

[Edited 2005-09-16 02:17:31]

User currently offlineMidway7 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 152 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7373 times:

Quoting A330323X (Reply 5):
No, no, you must be mistaken. The PIT people have clearly stated on numerous occasions that other airlines would pick up the slack from US cutting flights. That's clearly at odds with AA dropping mainline service. Kent George and Dan Onorato won't stand for you spouting such blasphemy.

I've heard they prefer the WN-loving bullshit!


User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 44
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7343 times:

Quoting N670UW (Reply 6):
I would think we could a similar announcement from NW in the coming weeks/months. Northwest has never been especially strong in Pittsburgh, and with the bankruptcy (and the likely returning of airplanes, including DC-9's, to come), I wouldn't be terribly surprised.

But NW is one of the prime exhibits in picking up the slack from US, by adding PIT-MKE. Of course, they quickly dropped it, but don't point that out to Kent and Dan.  Wink

Seriously, though, I wouldn't expect NW to pull out of PIT. The whole reason AA and US pull mainline out of stations is so they can Express the station, paying lower wages, then bring back some mainline flights after a while. I'd imagine that with NW in bankruptcy, they'll be able to achieve the necessary flexibility without having to go through the trouble of pulling mainline out of a station.

Quoting N670UW (Reply 6):
Though NW maintains a nonstop monopoly on PIT-MSP/DTW/MEM, anything is possible.

US continues to serve the PIT-DTW market. (Why exactly, I couldn't tell you...)



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 49
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7320 times:

Quoting A330323X (Reply 8):
Seriously, though, I wouldn't expect NW to pull out of PIT. The whole reason AA and US pull mainline out of stations is so they can Express the station, paying lower wages, then bring back some mainline flights after a while. I'd imagine that with NW in bankruptcy, they'll be able to achieve the necessary flexibility without having to go through the trouble of pulling mainline out of a station.

That is true for AA though so far they have not added any mainline back to CLE!



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineN670UW From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1603 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7313 times:

Quoting A330323X (Reply 8):
I'd imagine that with NW in bankruptcy, they'll be able to achieve the necessary flexibility without having to go through the trouble of pulling mainline out of a station.

Good point.

Quoting A330323X (Reply 8):
US continues to serve the PIT-DTW market.

I realized that after I posted. For some reason, I thought it was dropped in the MSP/MCI/IAH round.

Quoting A330323X (Reply 8):
(Why exactly, I couldn't tell you...)

For the same reason they still serve PIT-CMH?



N670UW

[Edited 2005-09-16 02:30:47]

User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9324 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7293 times:

Quoting A330323X (Reply 5):
The PIT people have clearly stated on numerous occasions that other airlines would pick up the slack from US cutting flights.

what slack is there to pick up? US cut out a majority of connecting traffic, not local market traffic.



Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
User currently offlineFlyibaby From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1017 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7275 times:

I know AA is too big for what I'm about to say, but I can't help but wonder when American Eagle ends up being the predominant carrier for AMR.

User currently offlineNikonDFW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7225 times:

AA is going all Eagle at PIT in order to eliminate 40-50 high seniority, top of the pay scale employees. Memphis and Columbus are next.

User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7192 times:

Quoting A330323X (Reply 5):
That's clearly at odds with AA dropping mainline service. Kent George and Dan Onorato won't stand for you spouting such blasphemy.



Quoting A330323X (Reply 8):
The whole reason AA and US pull mainline out of stations is so they can Express the station, paying lower wages, then bring back some mainline flights after a while.

Now now now, don't contradict yourself. Either bash PIT, or speak logically.

The O&D numbers are still climbing from the last available reports, to debunk that theory. (Listen... the WN cheerleaders are coming to take credit for that even though the climb began a year before WN cme to town). I'd say US with an E170 vs AA's Super 80s are probably helping US retain customers on that route as well. The E-jets are new, the Super 80's are... let's just say less-than new, and people notice crappy planes. AA also has some pretty crappy customer service in PIT from my few experiences with them in college, and hearing from an acquaintance who flew PIT-DFW weekly for most of a year who used the quote "Worse service than US at Philly on their worst days")

Quoting N670UW (Reply 6):
(and the likely returning of airplanes, including DC-9's, to come)

The DC-9's are owned, hence the reason they kept them all this time. The only thing they're going to be "returned" to is their melted form to turn them into coke cans.

Quoting N670UW (Reply 6):
To say the least, it's rather difficult to get to Dallas on WN from Pittsburgh, and I really doubt Southwest draws much of the Pittsburgh-to-Dallas crowd

Amen. Unless people like flying PIT-MDW-Random place in TX/OK/LA/AR-DAL. That's their own perogative if so.

Quoting A330323X (Reply 8):

But NW is one of the prime exhibits in picking up the slack from US, by adding PIT-MKE. Of course, they quickly dropped it, but don't point that out to Kent and Dan. Wink

US couldn't make money on that route either. But who's successful on that route and even added a flight? That little tiny airline with fresh-baked cookies and Dumbo Jets whos kicking some CRJ-440's in their red tails in many markets from MKE. How anyone thought they could make money with 44-seat CRJ's selling bargain-basement fares is beyond me.

Quoting N670UW (Reply 10):

For the same reason they still serve PIT-CMH?

Used to be Nationwide Insurance. Might still be, because there WAS actually a memorandum spread around at corporate in Columbus stating how they are to avoid PHL connections at all costs because the company was losing too much productivity and money on hotel reservations when their employees would get stranded on blown connections in PHL and it wasn't US' responsibility to lodge them for the night because it was an "ATC/Wx related delay." I had a copy of it in my email from my aunt that I used to look at when I needed a good laugh. However, last I had heard, they ceased flying US all together for above reasons. But nah... customers love connecting in PHL so much that US is going to re-bank it to help with connecting flights, that could never happen.  Yeah sure

Also possible ideas would be Cardinal Health and BlueCross and UPMC business between the cities... along with Milan in MGW with the pharmaceutical branch of Cardinal in CMH. Hell, it's only a Saab anyways. There are nearly daily Biz jets and other little things going OSU/CMH-MGW roundtrips on Flytecomm. Sometime numerous a day.

Quoting N670UW (Reply 6):

While Southwest is also in the Pittsburgh-Chicago market, AA pulled mainline from that route years ago (or did they ever have mainline on that route?)

Haven't had it for years if they did have it. It was ERJ's my whole college career. US/UA with the code sharing and whatnot always dominated the ORD route, AA's prices were always considerably higher from personal experience as well. Nobody had PIT-MDW direct until ATA came to town in '03 I believe, running 738's, then they left with the restructuring/WN Bailout, and shortly after that WN announced that PIT was "free to move about the country," or at least the 4 cities they served from PIT initially, all 4 of which were heavily served already.


User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4383 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7184 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting NikonDFW (Reply 13):
AA is going all Eagle at PIT in order to eliminate 40-50 high seniority, top of the pay scale employees. Memphis and Columbus are next.

AA does that a lot, they sure don't care about there employees. Sad. All the more power to WN expansion in PIT.



Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32689 posts, RR: 72
Reply 16, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7156 times:

Quoting NikonDFW (Reply 13):
AA is going all Eagle at PIT in order to eliminate 40-50 high seniority, top of the pay scale employees. Memphis and Columbus are next.

Surprised Dayton hasn't seen the same fate yet.

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 9):

That is true for AA though so far they have not added any mainline back to CLE!

If they brought mainline this soon they'd be facing some serious lawsuits. There is a window in which they can't bring back mainline.

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 15):

AA does that a lot, they sure don't care about there employees. Sad.

AA is a business, not a charity. AA obviously cares enough about their employees to realize where cuts are needed in order to avert bankruptcy and keep their pensions. Can't say that about certain other airlines.



a.
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11520 posts, RR: 61
Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7133 times:

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 15):
AA does that a lot, they sure don't care about there employees.

With all due respect, AA's management is there to make money. As MAH said -- AA is not a non-profit organization, it's a publicly traded company. Why must you personalize it and say that AA "sure don't care about their employees?" AA is not cutting mainline to stations and shifting them to Eagle for the sole purpose of screwing their employees. They have to cut their costs, and these markets obviously can't sustain mainline FY service, so they are moving to Eagle. That is market reality, that is economics. That's not "not caring about their employees."


User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9324 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7121 times:

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 15):
AA does that a lot, they sure don't care about there employees. Sad. All the more power to WN expansion in PIT.

You can't blame AA. AA doesn't have the luxury of being able to screw ALL of their employees under bankruptcy court protection a la United, Delta, Northwest, US Airways. So they just do it one station at a time as it is warranted. Sucks for those at Cleveland, Pittsburgh, etc., but it's for the "greater good" (John Stuart Mill).

[Edited 2005-09-16 03:46:13]


Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
User currently offlineN670UW From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1603 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7112 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 14):
Nobody had PIT-MDW direct until ATA came to town in '03 I believe

AirTran flew PIT-MDW briefly in late 2001/early 2002. US threatened to throw some 733's on the route, but never did. AirTran subsequently pulled out of PIT-MDW/PHL/LGA and retreated to just PIT-ATL. PIT-MCO and PIT-FLL have since been added.

ATA really struggled on the route. They tried hard to get the route to work (lots of advertising, fare promotions, etc.), and even tried cutting frequencies before pulling out (and the subsequent tie-on with WN). No name recognition, heavy competition in the market, and lack of connections at MDW (compared to what's offered at ORD) did them in. Plus the one-class 738's were probably a little big for what they were trying to do.

Southwest appears to be doing well, adding two more flights before the end of the year.



N670UW

[Edited 2005-09-16 03:38:45]

User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7079 times:

Quoting N670UW (Reply 19):

ATA really struggled on the route. They tried hard to get the route to work (lots of advertising, fare promotions, etc.), and even tried cutting frequencies before pulling out (and the subsequent tie-on with WN).

I took advantage of a few of those fare promotions as a poor college student. Part of their problem was crappy timing. Really early morning, high noon, and really late at night was the timing for awhile. For some reason nobody wanted to pick me up at PIT at 11:55pm and then drive back to Uniontown, especially in the winter time. ATA just had too much plane on that route, as was evidenced by the fact of the 6 segments I took on that route, 4 of the times I got the whole row of the 737 to myself.

Edit for a typo of mixing up Airtran and ATA.

[Edited 2005-09-16 04:03:52]

User currently offlineN670UW From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1603 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7054 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 20):
Part of their problem was crappy timing. Really early morning, high noon, and really late at night was the timing for awhile.

Right. Shortly before they pulled out, I was looking into a trip to LAX. Thinking "I'll try the new guy at PIT," I checked into ATA. The fares were great, but they didn't have a mid-morning departure. It was either around 6:20 am or around 12:30 pm. I ended up going with UA, leaving around 8:40 am, which turned out fine anyway, the ORD-LAX leg was a 744. Big grin

A mid-morning and/or late afternoon/early evening departure from PIT could've really helped them out.



N670UW


User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 44
Reply 22, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7041 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 14):
US couldn't make money on that route either. But who's successful on that route and even added a flight?

Who said anything about Midwest being successful on the route? Just because they're the only ones left running it doesn't mean they're necessarily making money on it.

(And, btw, I wouldn't be shocked to see US restart the route, in order to better route Air Wisconsin planes through the system.)

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 14):
But nah... customers love connecting in PHL so much that US is going to re-bank it to help with connecting flights, that could never happen.

Only took 14 replies before a thread about AA at PIT turned into US at PHL.  Smile

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 14):
Haven't had it for years if they did have it. It was ERJ's my whole college career.

I'm pretty certain AA did run F100's on PIT-ORD back in the day.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 14):
Nobody had PIT-MDW direct until ATA came to town in '03 I believe, running 738's

AirTran ran PIT-MDW before ATA. US has run the route off-and-on through the years.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9324 posts, RR: 25
Reply 23, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7024 times:

Quoting N670UW (Reply 21):
A mid-morning and/or late afternoon/early evening departure from PIT could've really helped them out.

Again, further missed opportunities by ATA.



Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
User currently offlineNikonDFW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6991 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 16):
Surprised Dayton hasn't seen the same fate yet.

AFIK, DAY doesn't have any AA employees, AE or a contractor works all the flights there, so DAY's operating cost's are a little lower than some others, keeping a few MD-80s on the schedules.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 16):
If they brought mainline this soon they'd be facing some serious lawsuits. There is a window in which they can't bring back mainline.

CLE would have to climb back up to something like 6-7 mainline flights a day, and keep them for at least a year or so to even consider bringing back AA employees.


25 Paddy78 : AA doesn't need that luxury, they screw their employees out in the open where everyone can see it.
26 Post contains images Tornado82 : I'm only one or two grey hairs older than you, if at all... so "back in the day" would be before my days in Valparaiso and therefore paying a big amo
27 Midway7 : AA flew M80's on the route in the late 80's. Flew one in 1987. US ran MDW-PIT with a mix of F100's and D9S. Flew one in Sept 1992 - one week before t
28 Tornado82 : Some big metal back in the day. Must have been nice.
29 Incitatus : Considering the recent additions to bankruptcy protection court and a fresh press release from AA on pension payments, this is truly an ignorant stat
30 Post contains images Commavia : Yeah -- you're right: exacting less harmful wage and benefit cuts on its employees than its competitors -- outside of bankruptcy -- and not coming ba
31 Paddy78 : Sorry guys, have to get my shots in on AA every now and then. I am out of a pension, my old man is out of a pension, all my former coworkers are out
32 Ckfred : N670UW: AA used to fly mainline to PIT from both ORD and MIA until the early 90s. A friend of mine used to fly 727s as an F/O. He used to have first d
33 NWADC9 : With mainline dropping, do you think they'll get rid of a few gates at PIT? They rule the end of D, with Hooters Air sharing D86, which was ATA's old
34 Tornado82 : How long was the westbound flight time on that? Assuming frequencies remain the same (they could even add one to replace some of the lost seats) I wo
35 Tockeyhockey : just because they're pulling mainline out of PIT doesn't necessarily mean that they are reducing capacity, does it? perhaps there will be more flights
36 Post contains images N670UW : It depends. Right now, AA is running 4x MD-80 on weekdays. At 129 seats each, that's about 516 daily seats. Seven CRJ-700 frequencies, about 490 seat
37 Post contains links Tornado82 : http://www.faremeasure.com/flights/F...rgh_Pennsylvania-Dallas_Texas.html Validity of faremeasure.com's numbers aside. If US is hauling 1/4 of the 44
38 Pitflyer : This sucks. As a AA million miler and Platinum member, they called me last month asking me why I don't fly as much. I said its because AA's schedule a
39 Post contains images Tornado82 : It'll happen the day after US figures it out at PHL, DL figures it out at ATL, and CO figures it out at EWR. Just please don't hold your breath waiti
40 TOLtommy : Somebody's a little tense.... Ever hear of yield management? Perhaps AA can fill 5 S80 flights a day to ORD, but remember, AA no longer controls pric
41 Tornado82 : Not tense, but once again somebody's a little wrong... AA never has been sending Super-80's to PIT from ORD for years now, so that renders half your
42 PITA333 : Wow, I cant believe this. I never thought that I would miss the AA MD80 at PIT, but I guess I took it for granted.
43 Flaps : Bummer. Looks like AA is losing my BUR business (not that they care). I'll be switching to WN. No way will I spend 3 hours+ on any version of a CRJ to
44 Stirling : ORD-PIT was not an original pre-deregulation route; that honor went to United and TWA. Both carriers at one time or another ran a late-night/red-eye w
45 ARCJET : AMERICAN AIRLINES Pittsburgh Service 9/8/63 Cincinnati New York (La Guardia) 6/4/71 Cincinnati Dallas(Love) Houston 6/8/78 Dallas/Ft Worth Houston Nas
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