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Woman Gives Birth On Aeroflot (strange Story)  
User currently offlineAfay1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1293 posts, RR: 2
Posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6820 times:

According to tomorrow's Moscow Times a woman gave birth onboard an Aeroflot 767-300ER on a SVO-LAX flight (7 hours into it). Both the doctors onboard (unknown nationalities) refused to help and the flight attendants acted as midwives. The baby was born healthy and without complications, and the woman carried the newborn boy off herself upon arrival in LAX. According to the article, the pilot asked to divert to a Canadian military base, but was told the 767 was too large, so the pilot opted to continue to LAX as the baby appeared healthy. The father met them at the gate...

This begs several questions:

1. Why did the doctors refuse assistance? They are protected by good samaritan laws at the very least if they were not American citizens. My father is a family doctor and he has always said his worst fear on an airplane is hearing the "is there a doctor aboard" call as he doesn't want to be put in the position of diverting a flight without knowing anything about the patient really. But, giving birth isn't something that one can't ignore...

2. Why, if whatever airfield they contacted refused them landing, did they continue on to LAX? Couldn't all sorts of complications have arisen despite healthy appearances. I realize humans have been succesfully giving unaided birth since the beginning of our species, but still...

Nothing like Russian IFE!

35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBrokenrecord From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 772 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6781 times:

Not all doctors are qualified to give birth. Just a thought...

User currently offlineAfay1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1293 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6747 times:

At least for doctors in the US, they all have to do residency programs in hospitals and are at least generally much more qualified than a layperson with first aid training. Other countries do not neccesarily have the same system...

User currently offlineBrokenrecord From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 772 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6729 times:

Quoting Afay1 (Reply 2):
At least for doctors in the US, they all have to do residency programs in hospitals and are at least generally much more qualified than a layperson with first aid training. Other countries do not neccesarily have the same system...

Agreed. However, I would not call delivering a baby "first aid"... LOL

I would see it being very likely the doctors on board were not from the US, or were perhaps along the lines of a Leslie Nielsen in "Airplane!" type doctor.

"Surely you can't be serious!" "I am serious, and don't call me Shirley."


User currently offlineBohlman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6692 times:

Quoting Brokenrecord (Reply 1):
Not all doctors are qualified to give birth. Just a thought...

And the flight attendants are?!?


User currently offlineHZ747300 From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2004, 1693 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 6667 times:
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http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2005/09/16/016.html

The baby will obviously be able to claim Russian citizenship, but would it be considered an American or Canadian additionally?

Interesting story - seemingly non-event as I cannot find the story anywhere else... Love the last line of the story:

The airline official said childbirth was an extremely rare occurrence on Aeroflot flights.



Keep on truckin'...
User currently offlineAfay1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1293 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 6585 times:

I cannot find the link at the moment, but last year another baby was born on an internal transcontinetal flight on Aeroflot as well. I believe it was Moscow-Novosibirsk...

User currently offline797 From Venezuela, joined Aug 2005, 1896 posts, RR: 27
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 6557 times:

Quoting HZ747300 (Reply 6):
The baby will obviously be able to claim Russian citizenship, but would it be considered an American or Canadian additionally?

Haha, since the baby was born probably in international airspace, then he should have an international citizenship  cheerful ... But seriously, if a baby is born in the middle of the Atlantic, which citizenship should he claim? The airline's or the city where the flight departed?



Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
User currently offlineRedChili From Norway, joined Jul 2005, 2301 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6429 times:

Quoting Brokenrecord (Reply 1):
Not all doctors are qualified to give birth.

No, only the female doctors are. No male doctor has ever, according to my belief, given birth!  Smile

Quoting 797 (Reply 8):
But seriously, if a baby is born in the middle of the Atlantic, which citizenship should he claim? The airline's or the city where the flight departed?

It depends on the laws of the countries involved. For Norwegians, the law says that the baby will get Norwegian citizenship if the mother is Norwegian, or if the father is Norwegian and is married to the mother. Where the baby is born doesn't matter.



Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
User currently offlineBackfire From Germany, joined Oct 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6393 times:

Quoting Afay1 (Thread starter):
Why did the doctors refuse assistance?

If the flight was anywhere near the USA they were probably afraid of getting sued for something.  Yeah sure


User currently offlineGeo772 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 519 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6387 times:

Don't quote me on this but I thinking back to a television series about Miami airport a while ago the baby is able to get American citizenship but this does not confer right of residency to its parents.


Flown on A300B4/600,A319/20/21,A332/3,A343,B727,B732/3/4/5/6/7/8,B741/2/4,B752/3,B762/3,B772/3,DC10,L1011-200,VC10,MD80,
User currently offlineTimmytour From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2004, 89 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6319 times:

Quoting RedChili (Reply 9):
It depends on the laws of the countries involved. For Norwegians, the law says that the baby will get Norwegian citizenship if the mother is Norwegian, or if the father is Norwegian and is married to the mother. Where the baby is born doesn't matter.

So presumably someone with a Norwegian great great great grandmother could still claim norwegian citizenship wherever they were born and lived, as long as the line of mothers kept claiming it?

Quoting RedChili (Reply 9):
No, only the female doctors are. No male doctor has ever, according to my belief, given birth!

Nice one  Smile


User currently offlineRedChili From Norway, joined Jul 2005, 2301 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6303 times:

Quoting Timmytour (Reply 12):
So presumably someone with a Norwegian great great great grandmother could still claim norwegian citizenship wherever they were born and lived, as long as the line of mothers kept claiming it?

Well, this could turn out to be a little bit tricky. You see, when you're 21 years old you COULD lose your citizenship if you have never lived in Norway. You can make an application at the nearest Norwegian embassy to keep the citizenship, and at the interview, you need to convince the consul that you still have a relationship with Norway, so you still want to keep it. If the Norwegian citizenship is your only citizenship, then I believe that it's a very good chance that they will allow you to keep it.

But if you never lived in Norway, and you're still allowed to keep your citizenship, and you then get a daughter or a son who also do not live in Norway before the age of 21, then my guess is that that person will not be allowed to keep it. But that's just my guess.

My son was born in Sweden, and we're living in Sweden now, and for these exact reasons I'm considering whether we should go and live in Norway for a year or two before he turns 21.



Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
User currently offlineBuyantUkhaa From Mongolia, joined May 2004, 2907 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6111 times:

Quoting Afay1 (Thread starter):
This begs several questions:

And one more: why was this woman allowed to board? Most airlines have a policy that when a woman is into the Xth month of pregnancy, she cannot board.

Three options:
1. The birth was premature. Medical assistance would have been necessary - thus option unlikely.
2. Woman didn't seem that far into pregnancy and was mistakenly allowed to board. Oops.
3. Aeroflot has no policy on pregnant pax. Oops!



I scratch my head, therefore I am.
User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6095 times:

Quoting 797 (Reply 8):
But seriously, if a baby is born in the middle of the Atlantic, which citizenship should he claim?

I can imagine that the baby will get the citizenship of the country where the plane is registered in, in this case Bermuda (all Aeroflot Airbus and Boeing planes are registered in Bermuda). The official place of birth is "international airspace".

Patrick


User currently offlineAfay1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1293 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6039 times:

Never thought of that, so it could end up being a Russian/Canadian/Bermudan/American baby? We have no idea what the nationality of the parents is despite their names as well. Also, as I said before, anyone who helps out in a medical emergency is "usually" protected by good samaritan laws to obviate hesitation based on our sue-happy culture.

In anycase, Aeroflot has a press-release on the subject (so far in Russian only)...It states the last birth on board was in 2001 on an SVO-SIN flight.


User currently offline797 From Venezuela, joined Aug 2005, 1896 posts, RR: 27
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5957 times:

Wow, that would be a cool story to tell when this child grows up: I was born at 35000ft!!!  bouncy 


Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26617 posts, RR: 75
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5889 times:

Quoting Brokenrecord (Reply 1):
Not all doctors are qualified to give birth. Just a thought...

All doctors are trained in delivering babies, at least in the US

Quoting Backfire (Reply 10):
If the flight was anywhere near the USA they were probably afraid of getting sued for something.

Yeah, sued for being a Brit who makes really bad assumptions, especially given the idiotic nature of many British laws

Quoting Geo772 (Reply 11):
Don't quote me on this but I thinking back to a television series about Miami airport a while ago the baby is able to get American citizenship but this does not confer right of residency to its parents.

If the child is born in an airport in the US, they are most definately automatic US citizens. Also, the child can apply for green cards for their parents.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineMainMAN From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 2098 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5786 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
Quoting Backfire (Reply 10):
If the flight was anywhere near the USA they were probably afraid of getting sued for something.

Yeah, sued for being a Brit who makes really bad assumptions, especially given the idiotic nature of many British laws

Would you like to elaborate? Aimez-vous elaborer?


User currently offline7of9 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 54 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days ago) and read 5290 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 17):
If the child is born in an airport in the US, they are most definately automatic US citizens. Also, the child can apply for green cards for their parents.

No they can't apply for a green card for their parents until they are 21 yrs old and that is according to immigration laws.EVEN THOUGH THE CHILD IS A US CITIZEN.


User currently offlineAbrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5124 posts, RR: 55
Reply 20, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days ago) and read 5261 times:

Quoting Timmytour (Reply 11):
So presumably someone with a Norwegian great great great grandmother could still claim norwegian citizenship wherever they were born and lived, as long as the line of mothers kept claiming it?

= Probably not given Norway's record of tolerance and acceptance of outsiders.



Live, and let live.
User currently offlineOmoo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5219 times:

Quoting Afay1 (Thread starter):
Why did the doctors refuse assistance? They are protected by good samaritan laws at the very least if they were not American citizens. My father is a family doctor and he has always said his worst fear on an airplane is hearing the "is there a doctor aboard" call as he doesn't want to be put in the position of diverting a flight without knowing anything about the patient really. But, giving birth isn't something that one can't ignore...

Probably because of Lawsuits. These days you can get sued for anything, and their malpractice insurance probably covers certain states or cities that they practice in.


User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5211 times:

If a baby is born in a plane, the same rule applies if it was born in a ship, the baby's nationality would be of whatever flag the plane is wearing, even if it is in a made in USA 767 flying over Canada, and registered in bermuda, the baby "should" be russian. But mostly it's up to the parents and the national laws that would apply to that specific plane. Most countries have this rule, I've read it myself on the Mexican constitution, and I read it some time in some travel related magazine a while ago.

 twocents 


User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5165 times:

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 22):
If a baby is born in a plane, the same rule applies if it was born in a ship, the baby's nationality would be of whatever flag the plane is wearing, even if it is in a made in USA 767 flying over Canada, and registered in bermuda, the baby "should" be russian.

Why should it be Russian?

The plane is wearing a Bermudan flag! It does not mean that, when "Aeroflot" is painted on the plane - that it is automatically Russian.

The baby was born in a plane which was flying in international airspace and which is registered in Bermuda, I see no point to give a Russian passport here.

Anyway, this is just my opinion, I am curious what will happen in this case!

Patrick


User currently offlineNycfuturepilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 791 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4954 times:

Quoting Afay1 (Thread starter):
Both the doctors onboard (unknown nationalities) refused to help

Here in the US, OB-GYNs (they're the doctors who usually deliver babies incase you arent familiar) have the highest malpractice insurance rates because they are sued more than any other type of doctor. Had they offered assistance to the woman and there was a still birth, prolapsed cord or any other type of birth problem then they would have been sued like crazy and it all would have been put on their license and their malpractice insurance. Also, if these men were not ob-gyns then they probably have never delivered a child so would be more likely to mess up. I am an EMT and am trained in delivering children and would have had i been on the flight but i understand why these doctors did not want to do it.



Father, Son, HOYA spirit
25 AirPacific747 : I have a friend from Alaska who was born in a plane aswell.. his birth place is the place the plane landed (anchorage) well that is pretty cool!
26 Hjulicher : I can vouch for this one since almost the exact same thing happened to me. The child will be a dual citizen of the United States and the Russian Feder
27 MarshalN : You know, some of the FAs might have had babies themselves, so they could actually be experienced at least in giving birth and thus sort of know what
28 RedChili : They have. If the expected delivery is less than four weeks away, you need a doctor's written consent to fly. Maybe the doctors made an error conceri
29 Backfire : Although you haven't quite grasped it yet, my French friend, you can look forward to appreciating this cultural gem we call 'sarcasm' when you develo
30 Starlionblue : Just to clear things out. - Most countries have laws that state the child gets the nationality(ies) of the parents. - Many countries also have laws t
31 Illusion : It was 1,5-2 years ago... I was working at a ground handling company back then and there was a birth on board on a LTU flight... The baby and the moth
32 Starlionblue : It's actually pretty easy to hide late pregnancy with clothing. Many people still think my wife is about 6-7 months pregnant, when she is in fact due
33 Breiz : Quite right. Depending on the country where one is born, it is either the blood (parents) or the land (place of birth) which decide on the citizenshi
34 Sabena332 : Who cares? The plane is registered in Bermuda, that is what counts! Or can Cubana fly to the USA just because they are painting a - for example - Ger
35 Post contains links Afay1 : The article has finally been posted in English, officially, although the translation is terrible. Aeroflot is so inconsistent sometimes...they are too
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