BCA2005 From India, joined Sep 2005, 249 posts, RR: 0 Posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 6262 times:
Theres always talk about new routes and new destinations. Recently I was looking at old BA timetables and managed 2 come up with a long list of destinations which have been served and axed by BA within the last 10 years.
Im sure theres more, so please add to the list. Sorry if this has been discussed before, but I ask why has the BA route network decreased so much over the years? Many of the destinations in the list are served by other airlines and perform well. I know theres a long list, but could anyone explain why any of the destinations above have been axed? Which BA route, in your opinion, is likely to be axed next?
Fbgdavidson From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 3831 posts, RR: 26
Reply 1, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 6143 times:
From the OLCI bookmark I have:
While the BA network has undoubtedly shrunk (I have a 1992 Executive Club timetable which has some astonishing routes in it!) they have opened up a number of new routes, recently Sharm El Sheikh, Shanghai etc
"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
Some of the routes which BA have discontinued, such as PIT and CLT, have a bit of politics behind them following the split from US Airways. The exit from Saudi Arabia also (despite the protestations of BA press releases) was heavily influenced by international politics and perceived regional instability. The pullout from S. America has been a consistent trend during a time when overall profits have increased.
I guess that the decline of routes to the Far East commenced during the economic collapse suffered in the region a few years ago. I would love BA to start going back to ICN, KUL and TPE. These are major destinations and could surely be profitable. However, without an infinite supply of planes, I can understand why other routes may take precedent.
If you've got a 1992 timetable handy there, Mr Fbg, what was capacity like to HKG around that time? It may be that capacity has been maintained (or at least increased over the past 18 months or so) to the Far East but with a fewer number of destinations (with the exceptions of PEK and PVG) and, instead, BA are chucking a whole lot of passengers over to CX or JL for the final leg of their journey.
Never knew that BA ever flew to Abidjan. Not sure why BRS is on the OP's list.
But adding (or will add) routes and/or capacity to Shanghai, Reykjavík, Vilnius, Split, Hassi Massaoud, Mumbai, Chennai, Bangalore, Hong Kong, Sharm El Sheikh, Grenoble, Innsbruck, Fèz, etc. (includes franchised airlines).
Yes, BA's route structure has shrunk but many airlines have. BA has trimmed a lot of fat and as a result was the most profitable airline in fiscal year 2004. They'll slowly rebuild their route network as it makes sense (as evidenced by new routes to PVG and BLR) but they're limited as to what they can do unless they get some new long-haul planes (which they're sort of doing by adding some more 767s to the long-haul fleet).
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
BCA2005 From India, joined Sep 2005, 249 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5992 times:
Quoting LH423 (Reply 4): They'll slowly rebuild their route network as it makes sense (as evidenced by new routes to PVG and BLR)
I totally agree with what you're saying here, PVG and BLR should prove to be very profitable routes for BA. Is there any chance that BA will start services to HYD or CAN? How about them reintroducing any of the destinations from the list, such as ICN, KIX or SCL (LAN Hub)?
HB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4652 posts, RR: 69
Reply 12, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5820 times:
A couple of remarks here:
- some of the destinations that were abandoned because of a variety of reasons, might be feasible for a return at the point in time. However, BA is obviously restricted in what is possible by limited available resources both in terms of airframes and Heathrow slots
- as for Seoul, BA never operated to ICN. At the time it pulled out of the destination, Seloul's Kimpo airport (SEL) was still in use. For a very short period of time during last year's SARS outbreak, BA's PEK flights operated via ICN, though
- I don't envisage a return of any flights with ineffective tag-ons. The era of multi-stop milkruns is coming to an end. As such, it is unlikely that BA would ever return to the like of MNL, TPE, CGK, DUR or GNE is small
- destinations like SEZ and CMB were essentially low yielding, and BA is sure not to invest its scarce resources into a return there
- while some of the previously abandoned destinations might make sense for a nonstop return (KUL, ICN, even MNL or TPE), BA seems to adhere to a policy of sticking to a limited number of destinations with increased frequency. As such, I would expect reinforced frequencies to SIN and HKG rather than a return to KUL or ICN
- I expect future longhaul growth to be focused on Asia, with India (upcoming) and China as the airline's prime targets. Nevertheless, I would expect BA to return to Korea at some point in the medium future and I could also imagine a flight to Centrair NGO if this new airport turns out to be a success
KEno From Malaysia, joined Feb 2004, 1842 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5721 times:
I can't really see how BA could do well on LHR-KUL sector if they decided to make a comeback. MH now flies 18x weekly to LHR and 4x weekly to MAN, that's a total of 22 x 747-400s services weekly. Flights to/from the UK are often the cheapest if compared to 7 other european cities served by MH, plus they can fill the cabin easier with onward connections to 5 Australian cities via KUL. Need I mention about MH's 5-star quality and its newly revamped premium classes?
BA is right to stay away from KUL. They just can't win
I think DUR should be re-introduced as an alternative to CPT or JNB, slots at CPT and JNB are very hard to get, so a DUR service would add capacity to the South Africa market!
I think PER won't come back in the near future because of OneWorld partner airline QF!
The LHR-CMB route is pretty much covered by Emirates and Sri Lankan!
I think the most likely to return are the Asian routes such as LHR-TPE/NGO/CGK.. It's even more possible to see BA at NGO seeing as the new airport is now open! LHR/LGW-CGK is served by no one seeing as Garuda stopped flights to LON! As for TPE, Eva Air are the only airline to operate direct flights (via BKK) to TPE (773ER's), although there is plenty of competion from major Asian airlines such as CX, TG, CI, BR, SQ.... Maybe they could code-share with CX via HKG!
If you go back another 10 years you can add: AKL, NAN, HNL and transpacific routes from HKG, TYO, SFO & LAX and probabley others.
Two of the relevant factors to consider over this period.
De Colonisation reduced the demand for flights between London and the colonies. It did not go away, but certainly it graudally reduced afer independance. This made those ports less attrative to BA.
The increase in range of modern aircraft. When LON-SYD services were introduced in 1934, there were 22 intermediate stops! Today its down to ONE! And will most likely be NONE within 10 years. Not many of those intermediate stop justified the stop for commerical reasons, they were necessary for technical reasons. As aircraft range increased those stops necessary mainly for technical reasons were dropped. This process has continued untill the present day where virtually all BA international flights are non stop or one stop at the most, so if the port cannot commerically justify service, it doesent get it.
LH423 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 6501 posts, RR: 52
Reply 19, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5462 times:
Quoting BCA2005 (Reply 15): Is there any chance of BA increasing frequencies to Cairo, Sao Paulo, Bangkok or Mexico City?
I'm sure at some point. All of those cities are full most of the time. I know in the case of MEX, it's the Mexico-UK bilateral that restricts us to 4x weekly. Though, the rest of the days IB can handle it for us.
I'm pretty sure that it's the same case with most of BA's busy cities. A lack of aircraft and/or a lack of a sufficient bi-lateral is what keeps BA from servicing cities that other airlines do so well on. Particularly China. AF and LH are doing wonders on their routes to China. BA, well, only has 11 weekly services (excluding HKG where BA is the undisputed European airline)? 5 to PVG and 6 to PEK whereas AF have (or will have) twice daily services on their 772s and 77Ws (AF's flagship aircraft).
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
RCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4445 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5417 times:
For Latin America, its a small chance they will return to BOG, CCS, SCL or LIM. We sure miss them, but they are leaving Latin America to Iberia. In a few years, I envision the only destinations left in the continent will be MEX and GRU, the rest served by IB from MAD (if they finally purchase the airline).
Jasepl From India, joined Jul 2004, 3582 posts, RR: 36
Reply 21, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5417 times:
Not much more than 10 years ago, BA flew to all these medium- and long-haul destinations, but don't anymore:
* Adelaide, Australia
* Anchorage, United States
* Auckland, New Zealand
* Bogotá, Colombia
* Brisbane, Australia
* Calgary, Canada
* Caracas, Venezuela
* Cancún, Mexico
* Charlotte, United States
* Colombo, Sri Lanka
* Dammam, Saudi Arabia
* Durban, South Africa
* Fukuoka, Japan
* Gaborone, Botswana
* Havana, Cuba
* Jakarta, Indonesia
* Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
* Kano, Nigeria
* Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
* Lilongwe, Malawi
* Lima, Peru
* Luxor, Egypt
* Manila, Philippines
* Montego Bay, Jamaica
* Nagoya, Japan
* Osaka, Japan
* Perth, Australia
* Pittsburgh, United States
* Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
* Port of Spain, Trinidad and Tobago
* San Diego, United States
* San José de Costa Rica
* San Juan de Puerto Rico
* Santiago de Chile
* Seoul, Korea
* T'ai-Pei, Taiwan
* Tbilisi, Georgia
* Victoria, Seychelles
Certainly they've added destinations too, including a few they added and hen dropped, but that's still an impressive list!
Quoting Gemuser (Reply 18): If you go back another 10 years you can add: AKL, NAN, HNL
BA also used to serve CHC in the region too.
Whilst it's unfortunate for so many cities to have lost BA service, the industry has changed so much over the past 10-15 years that many of these routes can now be more profitably served through the many code-shares and alliances which weren't widely available or simply didn't exist back then. BA, like many carriers, is no longer permitted to received government subsidies and there's no such thing as CH11 to fall back on in the UK when times are hard so they have had to streamline services and co-operate extensively with OneWorld partners to help cut expenditure.