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Decreasing BA Route Network  
User currently offlineBCA2005 From India, joined Sep 2005, 246 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5520 times:

Theres always talk about new routes and new destinations. Recently I was looking at old BA timetables and managed 2 come up with a long list of destinations which have been served and axed by BA within the last 10 years.

KUL, TPE, MNL, PER, NGO, KIX, ICN, CMB, DUR, ABJ, RUH, JED, CCS, BOG, SCL, SJO, HAV, MBJ, CUN, CLT, LLW, SEZ, CGK, DMM, BRS, SAN, PIT & ZAG

Im sure theres more, so please add to the list. Sorry if this has been discussed before, but I ask why has the BA route network decreased so much over the years? Many of the destinations in the list are served by other airlines and perform well. I know theres a long list, but could anyone explain why any of the destinations above have been axed? Which BA route, in your opinion, is likely to be axed next?

47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFbgdavidson From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 3697 posts, RR: 28
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5401 times:

From the OLCI bookmark I have:

Cardiff
Gothenberg
Guernsey
Leeds
Newquay
Paris (Orly)
Plymouth

While the BA network has undoubtedly shrunk (I have a 1992 Executive Club timetable which has some astonishing routes in it!) they have opened up a number of new routes, recently Sharm El Sheikh, Shanghai etc



"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
User currently offlineBAxMAN From St. Helena, joined May 2004, 671 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5365 times:

Quoting Fbgdavidson (Reply 1):
From the OLCI bookmark I have:


Gothenberg

Franchise partner, Sun Air, fly from GOT.

Some of the routes which BA have discontinued, such as PIT and CLT, have a bit of politics behind them following the split from US Airways. The exit from Saudi Arabia also (despite the protestations of BA press releases) was heavily influenced by international politics and perceived regional instability. The pullout from S. America has been a consistent trend during a time when overall profits have increased.

I guess that the decline of routes to the Far East commenced during the economic collapse suffered in the region a few years ago. I would love BA to start going back to ICN, KUL and TPE. These are major destinations and could surely be profitable. However, without an infinite supply of planes, I can understand why other routes may take precedent.

If you've got a 1992 timetable handy there, Mr Fbg, what was capacity like to HKG around that time? It may be that capacity has been maintained (or at least increased over the past 18 months or so) to the Far East but with a fewer number of destinations (with the exceptions of PEK and PVG) and, instead, BA are chucking a whole lot of passengers over to CX or JL for the final leg of their journey.

Never knew that BA ever flew to Abidjan. Not sure why BRS is on the OP's list.



I need to get laid
User currently offlineBCA2005 From India, joined Sep 2005, 246 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5308 times:

Quoting BAxMAN (Reply 2):
Never knew that BA ever flew to Abidjan.

They used to serve Abidjan back when majority of their African flights were from London Gatwick. Flights were twice weekly, one nonstop and one in a triangle flight with Accra, both using B777


User currently offlineLH423 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 6501 posts, RR: 54
Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5324 times:

Quoting BCA2005 (Thread starter):
KUL, TPE, MNL, PER, NGO, KIX, ICN, CMB, DUR, ABJ, RUH, JED, CCS, BOG, SCL, SJO, HAV, MBJ, CUN, CLT, LLW, SEZ, CGK, DMM, BRS, SAN, PIT & ZAG

But adding (or will add) routes and/or capacity to Shanghai, Reykjavík, Vilnius, Split, Hassi Massaoud, Mumbai, Chennai, Bangalore, Hong Kong, Sharm El Sheikh, Grenoble, Innsbruck, Fèz, etc. (includes franchised airlines).

Yes, BA's route structure has shrunk but many airlines have. BA has trimmed a lot of fat and as a result was the most profitable airline in fiscal year 2004. They'll slowly rebuild their route network as it makes sense (as evidenced by new routes to PVG and BLR) but they're limited as to what they can do unless they get some new long-haul planes (which they're sort of doing by adding some more 767s to the long-haul fleet).

LH423



« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5900 posts, RR: 40
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5251 times:

Quoting BCA2005 (Thread starter):
CCS, BOG

the axe of this destinations was really hard!!!! Sad

regards
Avianca



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineBCA2005 From India, joined Sep 2005, 246 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5250 times:

Quoting LH423 (Reply 4):
They'll slowly rebuild their route network as it makes sense (as evidenced by new routes to PVG and BLR)

I totally agree with what you're saying here, PVG and BLR should prove to be very profitable routes for BA. Is there any chance that BA will start services to HYD or CAN? How about them reintroducing any of the destinations from the list, such as ICN, KIX or SCL (LAN Hub)?


User currently offlineBlrBird From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 578 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5192 times:

Quoting BCA2005 (Thread starter):
CMB

Was this pulled out after the attack on CMB airport?

Quoting BCA2005 (Reply 6):
Is there any chance that BA will start services to HYD

Expect Virgin before BA.



from star dust....
User currently offlineBBADXB From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5201 times:

From MLA, BA (or rather GT) axed LHR. I think that this was due to traffic to and from MLA being mainly leisure and not business traffic. KM serves LHR at least twice daily all year round.

On the other hand, BA (through its franchise, GT) have this summer started a new service to MAN.

Mainline BA have dropped MLA long ago... and it was only in summer of 1995 that operations to MLA were resumed through GT.


User currently offlineZSOFN From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1411 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5133 times:

Quoting BCA2005 (Thread starter):
DUR

DUR was dropped after South African domestic carrier Comair became a BA franchise. Shame to lose the 744s though!


User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5193 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5126 times:

Also AKL, ADL and BNE.

User currently offlineLH423 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 6501 posts, RR: 54
Reply 11, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5091 times:

Quoting BCA2005 (Reply 6):
Is there any chance that BA will start services to HYD or CAN?

There are rumours of HYD and COK if this new bi-lateral between the UK and India comes to fruition.

LH423



« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
User currently onlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4480 posts, RR: 72
Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5078 times:

A couple of remarks here:

- some of the destinations that were abandoned because of a variety of reasons, might be feasible for a return at the point in time. However, BA is obviously restricted in what is possible by limited available resources both in terms of airframes and Heathrow slots

- as for Seoul, BA never operated to ICN. At the time it pulled out of the destination, Seloul's Kimpo airport (SEL) was still in use. For a very short period of time during last year's SARS outbreak, BA's PEK flights operated via ICN, though

- I don't envisage a return of any flights with ineffective tag-ons. The era of multi-stop milkruns is coming to an end. As such, it is unlikely that BA would ever return to the like of MNL, TPE, CGK, DUR or GNE is small

- destinations like SEZ and CMB were essentially low yielding, and BA is sure not to invest its scarce resources into a return there

- while some of the previously abandoned destinations might make sense for a nonstop return (KUL, ICN, even MNL or TPE), BA seems to adhere to a policy of sticking to a limited number of destinations with increased frequency. As such, I would expect reinforced frequencies to SIN and HKG rather than a return to KUL or ICN

- I expect future longhaul growth to be focused on Asia, with India (upcoming) and China as the airline's prime targets. Nevertheless, I would expect BA to return to Korea at some point in the medium future and I could also imagine a flight to Centrair NGO if this new airport turns out to be a success


User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5034 times:

Quoting BAxMAN (Reply 2):
Never knew that BA ever flew to Abidjan

BA078/079

DC-10 LGW-ABJ-LGW Su/Mo

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 9):
DUR was dropped after South African domestic carrier Comair became a BA franchise

Tu/Th LHR-JNB-DUR 744 We/Fr DUR-JNB-LHR



Delete this User
User currently offlineKEno From Malaysia, joined Feb 2004, 1842 posts, RR: 28
Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4979 times:

I can't really see how BA could do well on LHR-KUL sector if they decided to make a comeback. MH now flies 18x weekly to LHR and 4x weekly to MAN, that's a total of 22 x 747-400s services weekly. Flights to/from the UK are often the cheapest if compared to 7 other european cities served by MH, plus they can fill the cabin easier with onward connections to 5 Australian cities via KUL. Need I mention about MH's 5-star quality and its newly revamped premium classes?

BA is right to stay away from KUL. They just can't win  Wink

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User currently offlineBCA2005 From India, joined Sep 2005, 246 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4792 times:

Is there any chance of BA increasing frequencies to Cairo, Sao Paulo, Bangkok or Mexico City?

User currently offlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3762 posts, RR: 19
Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4813 times:

Quoting BCA2005 (Thread starter):
KUL, TPE, MNL, PER, NGO, KIX, ICN, CMB, DUR, ABJ, RUH, JED, CCS, BOG, SCL, SJO, HAV, MBJ, CUN, CLT, LLW, SEZ, CGK, DMM, BRS, SAN, PIT & ZAG

Out of these I miss SAN the most!  Sad

I think DUR should be re-introduced as an alternative to CPT or JNB, slots at CPT and JNB are very hard to get, so a DUR service would add capacity to the South Africa market!

I think PER won't come back in the near future because of OneWorld partner airline QF!

The LHR-CMB route is pretty much covered by Emirates and Sri Lankan!

I think the most likely to return are the Asian routes such as LHR-TPE/NGO/CGK.. It's even more possible to see BA at NGO seeing as the new airport is now open! LHR/LGW-CGK is served by no one seeing as Garuda stopped flights to LON! As for TPE, Eva Air are the only airline to operate direct flights (via BKK) to TPE (773ER's), although there is plenty of competion from major Asian airlines such as CX, TG, CI, BR, SQ.... Maybe they could code-share with CX via HKG!

Rob!  Smile


User currently offlineBCA2005 From India, joined Sep 2005, 246 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4756 times:

Quoting B742 (Reply 16):
Maybe they could code-share with CX via HKG!

I think they already codeshare with CX to TPE, KUL, MNL and ICN. Come to think of it, this was probably the reason why they axed these destinations.


User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5552 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4768 times:

Quoting BCA2005 (Thread starter):
KUL, TPE, MNL, PER, NGO, KIX, ICN, CMB, DUR, ABJ, RUH, JED, CCS, BOG, SCL, SJO, HAV, MBJ, CUN, CLT, LLW, SEZ, CGK, DMM, BRS, SAN, PIT & ZAG

If you go back another 10 years you can add: AKL, NAN, HNL and transpacific routes from HKG, TYO, SFO & LAX and probabley others.

Two of the relevant factors to consider over this period.

De Colonisation reduced the demand for flights between London and the colonies. It did not go away, but certainly it graudally reduced afer independance. This made those ports less attrative to BA.

The increase in range of modern aircraft. When LON-SYD services were introduced in 1934, there were 22 intermediate stops! Today its down to ONE! And will most likely be NONE within 10 years. Not many of those intermediate stop justified the stop for commerical reasons, they were necessary for technical reasons. As aircraft range increased those stops necessary mainly for technical reasons were dropped. This process has continued untill the present day where virtually all BA international flights are non stop or one stop at the most, so if the port cannot commerically justify service, it doesent get it.


Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineLH423 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 6501 posts, RR: 54
Reply 19, posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4720 times:

Quoting BCA2005 (Reply 15):
Is there any chance of BA increasing frequencies to Cairo, Sao Paulo, Bangkok or Mexico City?

I'm sure at some point. All of those cities are full most of the time. I know in the case of MEX, it's the Mexico-UK bilateral that restricts us to 4x weekly. Though, the rest of the days IB can handle it for us.

I'm pretty sure that it's the same case with most of BA's busy cities. A lack of aircraft and/or a lack of a sufficient bi-lateral is what keeps BA from servicing cities that other airlines do so well on. Particularly China. AF and LH are doing wonders on their routes to China. BA, well, only has 11 weekly services (excluding HKG where BA is the undisputed European airline)? 5 to PVG and 6 to PEK whereas AF have (or will have) twice daily services on their 772s and 77Ws (AF's flagship aircraft).

LH423



« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4373 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4675 times:

For Latin America, its a small chance they will return to BOG, CCS, SCL or LIM. We sure miss them, but they are leaving Latin America to Iberia. In a few years, I envision the only destinations left in the continent will be MEX and GRU, the rest served by IB from MAD (if they finally purchase the airline).

User currently offlineJasepl From India, joined Jul 2004, 3582 posts, RR: 40
Reply 21, posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4675 times:

Not much more than 10 years ago, BA flew to all these medium- and long-haul destinations, but don't anymore:

* Adelaide, Australia
* Anchorage, United States
* Auckland, New Zealand
* Bogotá, Colombia
* Brisbane, Australia
* Calgary, Canada
* Caracas, Venezuela
* Cancún, Mexico
* Charlotte, United States
* Colombo, Sri Lanka
* Dammam, Saudi Arabia
* Durban, South Africa
* Fukuoka, Japan
* Gaborone, Botswana
* Havana, Cuba
* Jakarta, Indonesia
* Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
* Kano, Nigeria
* Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
* Lilongwe, Malawi
* Lima, Peru
* Luxor, Egypt
* Manila, Philippines
* Montego Bay, Jamaica
* Nagoya, Japan
* Osaka, Japan
* Perth, Australia
* Pittsburgh, United States
* Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
* Port of Spain, Trinidad and Tobago
* San Diego, United States
* San José de Costa Rica
* San Juan de Puerto Rico
* Santiago de Chile
* Seoul, Korea
* T'ai-Pei, Taiwan
* Tbilisi, Georgia
* Victoria, Seychelles

Certainly they've added destinations too, including a few they added and hen dropped, but that's still an impressive list!


User currently offlineCapital146 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2003, 2125 posts, RR: 45
Reply 22, posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4644 times:

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 10):
Also AKL, ADL and BNE



Quoting Gemuser (Reply 18):
If you go back another 10 years you can add: AKL, NAN, HNL

BA also used to serve CHC in the region too.

Whilst it's unfortunate for so many cities to have lost BA service, the industry has changed so much over the past 10-15 years that many of these routes can now be more profitably served through the many code-shares and alliances which weren't widely available or simply didn't exist back then. BA, like many carriers, is no longer permitted to received government subsidies and there's no such thing as CH11 to fall back on in the UK when times are hard so they have had to streamline services and co-operate extensively with OneWorld partners to help cut expenditure.



Like a fine wine, one gets better with age.
User currently offlineBCA2005 From India, joined Sep 2005, 246 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4623 times:

I never knew BA flew to Fukuoka and Lima, when was this? What were the routings?

User currently offlineNeder99 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2000, 184 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4558 times:

BA does actually serve Tbilisi 3 times a week from LHR (through franchise BMED).

25 Post contains images BHXDTW : Anyone found out about FNT yet ?? I will be very much impressed with anyone who can tell me officially whether BA served it Direct or not and you will
26 747400F : CNL and TED were BA destinations at one time in the last 10 years also. (through Sunair franchise) in fact BA may have been the onle airline ever to s
27 Post contains links ZSOFN : Yes! I totally agree. I put forward my case for this in an old thread (see reply 32): RE: Next Airbus A380 Customer, SAA? (by ZSOFN Jun 29 2005 in Ci
28 Post contains links and images Stirling : It's difficult to nearly impossible to prove something that never happened. BOAC 1950 BOAC 1971 British Airways 1998 British Airways Americas 2004 Br
29 Babybus : I can't remember the dates but BA didn't serve any destinations in the Irish Republic for many years. They only started again when a subsidiary compan
30 Klyk1980 : Well..I think thats the trend to axe route among major airlines. Airlines nowaday using the power of airlines allianceto run the resource more effecti
31 TLVFred : Incredible how in BOAC 1950 timetable the route LHR-Rome-TLV-Tehran. What would it take for that to run again! From Christians to Jews to Muslims all
32 HB-IWC : I don't think the problem at JNB and CPT has anything to do with the availability of arrival and departure slots as those airports are not slot-restr
33 Manni : BA cityflyer used to serve ANR from LGW multiple times a day (operated by cityflyer express ), cancelled all it's flight into ANR a couple years ago a
34 MAS777 : But I tried to book a return Club ticket to KUL via HKG and they don't seem to offer any fares online. When I called BA Exec Club - they quoted me so
35 Pe@rson : I don't know, but I do remember a twice- or thrice-weekly schedule from LGW using the DC10 routing via AUH. In the peak season, BA normally increases
36 BCA2005 : Was looking through a BA timetable from 1997 and found that BA also used to serve PGF and SVG from LGW.
37 BCA2005 : Does anyone know whether BA will codeshare on CX's new flights to SGN? I just tried booking on ba.com and it does show fares on the routing LHR-HKG-K
38 Jasepl : That is correct! Sorry, my mistake. Of course! But we weren't comparing who dropped how many routes; simply looking at how many BA ended. Besides, SR
39 BCA2005 : I can confirm that they used to fly to Abidjan and Baghdad. Someones mentioned CHC already. I didn't know that they ever served Bandar Seri.
40 Fbgdavidson : Can't find the 1992 timetable but have a Winter '94 one. HKG is 2x daily 747s....note BA027 is No Smoking!
41 MAS777 : British Airways did indeed serve Bandar Seri Begawan up until the mid-80s. BA14 - I seem to recall came in from Sydney, Brisbane and flew into BWN bef
42 Cornish : Not a chance of it ever happening. Especially with BA Comair around to fly the connection. DUR would be allmost entirely leisure only and it would be
43 BCAL : Abidjan, Banjul and Freetown were routes that BA acquired from BCal following their merger with BA in 1988. Although BCal (and BUA before them) opera
44 ZSOFN : I'm not too sure. The marginal costs are relatively small (no extra equipment needed - using otherwise redundant a/c), fuel is relatively SO cheap do
45 Cornish : If DUR ever happened again it would probably be an extension of the JNB service, or a stop on the CPT service. But I still don't see it happening, de
46 Post contains images ZSOFN : Absolutely, that's what I had in mind. Yeah I flew the route back in the mid '90s - was great   The runway can be an issue when wet. Had some weight
47 Cornish : Part of the problem may be that from my talks with the South African Tourist Board they clearly have no interest in promoting the potential of the be
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