USADreamliner From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3738 times:
Looking at Aerolineas Argentinas and LAN flying to New Zealand, Tahiti(LAN) and Sydney, apparently doing well, I wonder why RG never had flights to Oceania?
Because if there is enough traffic for AR and LAN, I would assume that there is (maybe more) for Varig.
Can somebody answer this question...please.
Trolley Dolley From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3729 times:
Firstly, there is the distance factor/ETOPS factor. The nonstop polar routes are too isolated for the twins that RG flies and at the limit of the payload/range calculations. RG would be dependent on beyond rights from another South American country to operate the route, or operate via a far longer route via Tahiti- thus incurring a substantial operating penalty.
Market wise, the LA route works becasue there is a great deal of business between NZ/Australia and Chile. They have free trade agreements and many companies work in the same fields eg wine, forestry etc. Brazil has not had the same degree of economic interdependence to date. In my experience much of the Brazil bound traffic is of the lower yield tourist type.
Personally I'd love to see a RG or JJ tail in this part of the world- sooner rather than later!
Brasuca From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 717 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3601 times:
Aerolíneas Argentinas pax to Oceania is made of MORE THAN 50 PER CENT by Brazilians. Recently, AR started to operate their A342 into GRU to fetch these pax, which goes afterwards to AKL/SYD. So, some days of the week, the route is: GRU-EZE-AKL-SYD.
Most of Brazilians to Australia are students in Exchange Programmes. Australia has become the new appeal for Brazilians, instead of the US and UK for studying.
Australian Government predicts in 2008 three times more Brazilians students than previous years.
I don't have figures about LAN Chile stats. But I assume Brazilians play a big role in LA route as well.
Two years ago, I was told about the BIIGGG Community of permanent residents of Uruguayans and Bolivians in Australia. They use these routes as well.
LA will launch this year their 5th frequency to New Zealand/Australia, while AR operates 4 weekly.
VARIG main aircraft type is the MD11s. The trihollers don't depend on ETOPS. Thus Varig can fly to Oceania without major adjustments. From GRU to AKL, however I think a technical stop-over in Río Gallegos, EZE, SCL or PPT should be necessary.
With all these facts, I assume Varig didn't launch flights to Oceania because of mismanagement. If they had predicted such traffic, just like LA and AR did, VARIG would be flying daily today to Australia, no doubt via South Africa.
In the 90's, VARIG launched a fiasco route to BKK, JNB and HKG, performing very poor yields. They had then to axe it. If they had started GRU-JNB-SYD/PER instead, they would still be flying it successfully today, I bet with 747!!!
Unfortunately, they can't fly it anymore because of their current financial situation and AR / LA became the major players.
What a post! 100% perfect
Varig expansion in the 90's was one of the reasons to their nowadays situation. Asia and Oceania now are even strong in trade with Brazil but as Brasuca said, RG is not in situation to run a new flight.
Quoting Avianca (Reply 4): in future I can see a brazilian carrier in the market...
Me too. But i don't see a brazilian carrier in Australia before 2008.
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
PPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 9093 posts, RR: 37
Reply 7, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3413 times:
I agree with al the mismanagement cited aboce, however, I think only nowadays the amrket could warrant such a flights, not in the 90's. At least that's my impression...
But ya, it would be awesome to see a Brazilian carrier in AKL and SYD!
Quoting Brasuca (Reply 3): Aerolíneas Argentinas pax to Oceania is made of MORE THAN 50 PER CENT by Brazilians. Recently, AR started to operate their A342 into GRU to fetch these pax, which goes afterwards to AKL/SYD. So, some days of the week, the route is: GRU-EZE-AKL-SYD.
I belive it's the same with LAN.
Quoting Avianca (Reply 6): I can imagine that a brazilian carrier could also get some connecting traffice from europe to australia...
Ya but look at the competition... They would need to fly through LIS or MAD, which don't have a lot of onections with Oceania. I think either JNB, as Brasuca stated, or EZE would be the best.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
Avianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5954 posts, RR: 34
Reply 9, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3389 times:
Quoting PPVRA (Reply 7): Ya but look at the competition... They would need to fly through LIS or MAD, which don't have a lot of onections with Oceania. I think either JNB, as Brasuca stated, or EZE would be the best.
no I mean the flight should be via EZE or SCL, and the europeans could conect via GRU (take a flight ex europe to gru).
maybe it is not the shortest way but it would work if they offer good fares...
As I remember a friend of mine who has a travel agency told me in the past that AR had some transferpassengers in the past to australia / new zealand from europe (it was when AR was still stronger in europe with more direct flight to more eurepean city´s.)