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190 At New US Airways  
User currently offlineLowecur From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 585 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8434 times:

One of the pilot websites is reporting that the 190 scope was passed by the AWA MEC and negotiating committee. It needs to go to the membership for ratification. This will keep it out of the hands of the regionals:

Negotiating Committee Update - September 16, 2005
From: Mark Burdick, Negotiating Committee Chairman
To: All AWA Pilots

On behalf of your MEC and Negotiating Committee, I am pleased to announce that the final Transition Agreement passed during today's MEC meeting. The section regarding EMB 190 rates will go out to the membership for a ratification vote in accordance with MEC policy.

On Monday, we will distribute an analysis outlining the protections that have been captured with the agreement. Stay tuned for more details.

75 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlyboyaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 21 hours ago) and read 8247 times:

That's pretty cool. It will at least allow our own pilots to fly smaller planes. I think having a 100 seat plane is a good idea. There is too much of a gap between the CR9 and the A319...86 vs. 124 seats.

User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8964 posts, RR: 39
Reply 2, posted (9 years 21 hours ago) and read 8241 times:

Cool, any speculation on how many they could order?

Cheers



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineJmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3275 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (9 years 19 hours ago) and read 8175 times:

Quoting Flyboyaz (Reply 1):
There is too much of a gap between the CR9 and the A319...86 vs. 124 seats.

It'll likely be closer to the capacity of the CR9....I would guess it to be a 94 seater (6F/88Y). It will have superior performance to the CR9 and will suit many HP/US routes perfectly. Perhaps IFE could even be added. Here are a handful of potential routes for the US E90:

PHX-MSN
PHX-YEG
PHX-MLI
PHX-BTR
PHL-SAT
PHL-AUS
PHL-OKC
CLT-ABQ



.......
User currently offlineFlyboyaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 15 hours ago) and read 7933 times:

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 3):
It'll likely be closer to the capacity of the CR9....I would guess it to be a 94 seater (6F/88Y).

That kinda sucks...maybe the 195 would be better then...would hold 106 with a 2 class layout 8F/98C.


User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5162 posts, RR: 22
Reply 5, posted (9 years 15 hours ago) and read 7885 times:

Quoting Flyboyaz (Reply 1):
It will at least allow our own pilots to fly smaller planes.

As one of your passengers, let me tell you how much better I feel flying with pilots trained, organized, monitored and managed and paid under a mainline structure. Wouldn't have been before watching the Pinnacle inquiry, but it was pretty clear from that hearing that the depth and capabilities of the organization at a mainline legacy carrier is far different from even the better of the regionals.

Flame away, guys. You didn't sit through that hearing like I did. Even ALPA (especially ALPA) had criticisms of the management and management structure at Pinnacle.

[Edited 2005-09-18 01:51:50]

User currently offlineJmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3275 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (9 years 14 hours ago) and read 7879 times:

Quoting Flyboyaz (Reply 4):
That kinda sucks...maybe the 195 would be better then...would hold 106 with a 2 class layout 8F/98C.

Actually the 190 would be much more well-suited for HP/US for the following reasons:

1. Better range (1800nm vs. 1400nm) and hot/high performance.

2. Lower unit CASM (3rd FA required on 195).

3. Shorter fuselage by 8 feet (195 could create aircraft movement procedure challeges at some airports).

4. Ideal aircraft for PHX-TUS and LAS-TUS runs.  Smile


Keep in mind, US A319s seat 120 pax. Ideally the 190s would fly for mainline, eliminating the need for Mesa CR9s.



.......
User currently offlineFutureFO From Ireland, joined Oct 2001, 3132 posts, RR: 21
Reply 7, posted (9 years 14 hours ago) and read 7840 times:

Actually the 190 is all ready on order for Republic. They are to eventually be based out of FLL for the Carribean routes.


Sean from MCO



I Don't know where I am anymore
User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 14 hours ago) and read 7809 times:

Quoting FutureFO (Reply 7):
Actually the 190 is all ready on order for Republic. They are to eventually be based out of FLL for the Carribean routes.

Better find another paintscheme for it, cause if it's owned by Repubic, it ain't gonna be wearing the US colors  Wink


User currently offlineLUVRSW From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 498 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (9 years 14 hours ago) and read 7788 times:

Look for NW to do this to Mesaba and Pinnacle, I'm sure the NW pilots just layed off would gladly fly a CRJ.

User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (9 years 13 hours ago) and read 7725 times:

Quoting FutureFO (Reply 7):
Actually the 190 is all ready on order for Republic.

Really...?? That's news to me, and I'm sure it's news to the folks down in San Jose de Campos.



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineOuboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4599 posts, RR: 22
Reply 11, posted (9 years 10 hours ago) and read 7263 times:

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 8):
Quoting FutureFO (Reply 7):
Actually the 190 is all ready on order for Republic. They are to eventually be based out of FLL for the Carribean routes.

Better find another paintscheme for it, cause if it's owned by Repubic, it ain't gonna be wearing the US colors

Like he said...US Airways and AWA pilots, I believe, have both agreed that the E-190 will be flown as a MAINLINE aircraft. The CRJ-900 can still be outsourced however, for now. AWA ALPA also wants to get the 170 back in house...so we'll see what happens.


User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 43
Reply 12, posted (9 years 10 hours ago) and read 7185 times:

Quoting Ouboy79 (Reply 11):
The CRJ-900 can still be outsourced however, for now.

For now, and forever. And they blew the lid off that part of the scope clause, too. US/HP can now have up to 93 CRJ-900s outsourced.

What, you didn't think that bringing the EMB-190s inhouse was going to come for free, did you?  Silly



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (9 years 9 hours ago) and read 7082 times:

Interesting because I believe NW wants to buy E-190/5 type aircraft to replace their DC-9's but only pay the pilots who fly them wages less that than of a mainline carrier.

User currently offlineSean-SAN- From United States of America, joined Aug 2002, 769 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (9 years 9 hours ago) and read 7000 times:

Good news to hear. We needed this badly to stay competitive with JetBlue on the east. Also, it would be very good for several routes in the west, like LAS-YVR, LAS-BUR etc.

User currently offlineM404 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2226 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (9 years 9 hours ago) and read 6990 times:
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Good news. Like AirRyan I'm wondering about the implications for NW. Am sure this capacity of aircraft is desired and would hope that some of the 50 seaters can be returned or deliveries changed. I'm even wondering if ALPA can get this acft size in their scope will the company then try and have them worked by the cheaper regional ground crews anyway.


Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
User currently offlineSonOfACaptain From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1747 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (9 years 9 hours ago) and read 6972 times:

Quoting FutureFO (Reply 7):
Actually the 190 is all ready on order for Republic

Where did you hear this from??? Repugnant does not have any US 190 order. Heck, they can't even take anymore 170s from US currently.

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 13):
Interesting because I believe NW wants to buy E-190/5 type aircraft to replace their DC-9's but only pay the pilots who fly them wages less that than of a mainline carrier.

The pay at US would be competitive with regional pay, just flown under the mainline division.

-SOAC



Non Illegitimi Carborundum
User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 43
Reply 17, posted (9 years 8 hours ago) and read 6796 times:

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 13):
Interesting because I believe NW wants to buy E-190/5 type aircraft to replace their DC-9's but only pay the pilots who fly them wages less that than of a mainline carrier.



Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 16):
The pay at US would be competitive with regional pay, just flown under the mainline division.

The US EMB-190 payscale is about 10% higher than JetBlue's.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineUncGSO From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 344 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (9 years 7 hours ago) and read 6709 times:

Will it make PHX/LAS-GSO?? Am waiting for the day an airline tries GSO instead of RDU. Will be great to see people drive from RDU to catch a flight in Greensboro...

User currently offlineATWZW170 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 904 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (9 years 1 hour ago) and read 6092 times:

The 190 I don't believe is going to be a mainline plane. The RFP that US Airways sent to ZW was for 25 190 or 17 CRJ900 planes. There would have to be a swap, one 190 for a CRJ200...so the fleets wouldn't grow...but I'd much rather see a 190 rather than a CRJ!!


Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
User currently offlineFutureFO From Ireland, joined Oct 2001, 3132 posts, RR: 21
Reply 20, posted (9 years ago) and read 6045 times:

SOAC,

Republic is taking over all the Mid-Atlantic jets that are all ready delivered as well as the ones that are still sitting in Brazil. Don't know where you got your information.


Sean



I Don't know where I am anymore
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (9 years ago) and read 6030 times:

Quoting FutureFO (Reply 20):
Don't know where you got your information.

I'd say he got it from his Dad who is a pilot for MAA...and he is correct. Republic picked up the 3 Embraer 170's that were sitting in San Jose de Campos for Mid Atlantic (deliverys were frozen after the second USAirways bankruptcy) and that has been it so far. No other MAA -170's have transferred over yet. Also, as was said above Republic has NO -190's on order.



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineMrocktor From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1668 posts, RR: 49
Reply 22, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5945 times:

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 6):
1. Better range (1800nm vs. 1400nm) and hot/high performance.

190LR range: 2200nm
195LR range: 1800nm
190AR range: 2300nm
195AR range: 2100nm

Not sure how hot/high performance compares, though the 190 is most likely better as you said - despite the 195's more powerful engines.

mrocktor


User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2187 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5898 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 3):
It will have superior performance to the CR9

I though that the CR9 is a very economical airplane, otherwise Mesa wouldn't have ordered 45 of them...?



Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 24, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5883 times:

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 8):
Better find another paintscheme for it, cause if it's owned by Repubic, it ain't gonna be wearing the US colors

What are you talking about? Republic already operates the EMB 170 in US Airways colors.

N


25 Supa7E7 : The US had better order some E-170s. Currently US does not own any. They were sold to Republic.
26 Flyibaby : Anyone know if the CRJ900's or for that matter the 700's are RVSM approved? I assume the E170/190 are just do to their performance.
27 Gigneil : All transport category airplanes in the US now must be RVSM approved, if I'm not mistaken, or be stuck below the RVSM airspace. N
28 Post contains images Ouboy79 : With ALPA agreeing to a mainline competitive pay rate on the 190s at mainline, you'll probably never seem them at an affiliate. But like Ed mentioned
29 A330323X : ...which ALPA hasn't done yet. As I said, the new US payscale for the EMB-190 is 10% above the JetBlue payscale. Call me paranoid, but I think US did
30 A330323X : Currently US owns 7 of them, and leases another 18. They are going to be sold to Republic, but it hasn't happened yet.
31 Pdpsol : Actually, on September 2, US announced the Bankruptcy Court approved its proposed sale of Embraer 170s and slot assets to Republic Airways Holdings I
32 A330323X : I don't care when it's "expected to close" or "most likely" to close. It hasn't closed yet. Will it close soon? Sure. Why not? There are all sorts of
33 Pdpsol : This statement is incorrect. In ADDITION to Republic's $100 million deal for the US Embraer 170's, Wexford Capital LLC [along with Republic] is inves
34 ATWZW170 : US/HP rejected the investment from Republic and Wexford. The only thing that Republic is doing at this point is buying the EMB170's and some slots....
35 Apodino : I might be a little selfish in saying this but I hope to god this doesn't happen. USAirways submitted a RFP from the regionals for 90 seat flying. Als
36 Jmc1975 : You can expect the E190 to ultimately be the replacement for the 737 fleet as they continue to age. The US Airways 737 and A32x fleets are similar in
37 A330323X : Again, I don't know why on earth people make such a big deal out of the RFP. That was then; this is now. It was issued when US was able to outsource
38 Post contains images Lightsaber : I don't consider it a mistake. HP/US will grow tremendously with the E190. As a replacement for the 737, its a good fit. For HP, it will help rationa
39 Supa7e7 : What E-170s are you talking about? The ones Republic will be flying?
40 A330323X : I don't consider it a mistake for US either. It's a mistake for ALPA. Not with this contract. (And I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that US w
41 HPRamper : Not any more diverse than the US fleet already was, adding America West aircraft only increases the numbers of existing parts of the fleet.
42 Apodino : Quite a bit, they are a new USAirways express carrier, and one of the airlines that received the RFP from US, so this would mean more jobs for ZW pil
43 GSPSPOT : Whatever happens with this beautiful aircraft, PLEASE let it come to GSP!!
44 A330323X : So ALPA is responsible for every carrier that might have wanted to fly those birds? No, I think they're responsible first and foremost to the US pilo
45 Apodino : So your saying that even though ALPA represents both US and ZW pilots, they first responsibility is to US pilots? Thats BS in my opinon. Both pilot g
46 Post contains links and images A330323X : I'm saying that because the US contract already said that the flying belonged to them, it was ALPA's job to protect that language. What's so hard to
47 Apodino : But thats the way its been since RJ's were invented in the mid 90's, and other jets were grandfathered in. The reason the republic ceo might have sai
48 Lightsaber : HP/US will use the A319 to expand in that size range. The 190 is more efficient when flying "down-gauged" routes. In my opinion, the E190 is the firs
49 Post contains images A330323X : Yes! That's what I've been saying since Reply 12! You'd be surprised. Half of the active US pilots will have to retire within 5 years. At MidAtlantic
50 A330323X : US didn't fly the DC-9-10, but they did fly the F100 for almost a year after they retired their DC-9-30s, which seated 102 to the F100's 98. They wou
51 Mrocktor : So a cramped 86 pax RJ is a viable alternative to a real 100 seat airliner? Certainly an airline can do without 100 seat aircraft, misusing the large
52 Bucky707 : for the record, there is not an airline out there constrained by scope claue nonsense. AA, DL, NW, US, UAL, CAL, you name it, anyone of them can oper
53 Mrocktor : They can operate it, if they agree to pay wages that are incompatible with the revenue from the plane. B6 got competitive wages for their 100 seat fl
54 Supa7e7 : The question is whether the EMB-190 is a viable alternative to the Mesa CRJ-900 already in the fleet. Maybe, maybe not (for labor reasons). But it's
55 Milesrich : "That kinda sucks...maybe the 195 would be better then...would hold 106 with a 2 class layout 8F/98C." That won't happen; those extra SIX seats requir
56 Bucky707 : actually, I don't disagree with you. Our scope does not prevent the airline from operating any aircraft it wants. Often though, our wages do limit wh
57 Mrocktor : Wow, someone who actually gets it. It is quite clear that had pilot wages followed the market there would be less unemployed pilots and the industry
58 ATWZW170 : Looks like the EMB190 might be a main line plane....we received word today that HP/US pilots had come to some agreement to fly that type of plane. Not
59 Post contains images Lightsaber : Ummm... I'm the single passanger who likes the CRJ900. However, my girlfriend isn't comfortable in the seats... so that's the end of flying on that.
60 Post contains images Tornado82 : Is that a whip I hear cracking? (just joking btw) Same fuselage as the CRJ700, just stretched, right? While the -700 is a vast improvement over the 1
61 Post contains images HiFi : I have never flown the CRJ700, and I have never flown the E-170. But I've spent several hours inside parked E-170s testing stuff with Engines at T/O
62 Apodino : For those of you thinking that the 190 would make a good replacement for the 737 bear one thing in mind. This agreement states that the airline must k
63 CRJ900 : US should fly the CR9 with a one-class 82-seat config at 32-33" pitch. That will make the jet comfortable for most people while still being economical
64 Pdpsol : I must say, these contracts are outrageously restrictive. How in the world does ALPA get US to agree to these straightjacket terms? - US can't get ZW
65 Post contains images A330323X : In the sense that US can operate the CRJ-900s with less restrictions, yes. As I said, the US pilot wages on the EMB-190 are within 10% of JetBlue's.
66 A330323X : Nothing will happen on September 27. The two carriers will become one operationally over the next 18 months or so, and that's when the pilot lists wi
67 Post contains images Mrocktor : This only means the other contracts are outrageous, while this one is merely bad mrocktor
68 Bucky707 : why is it outrageous? Whats outrageous is that management thinks they have to outsource to make money. How much outsourcing does Southwest, Airtran,
69 Mrocktor : They have to outsource because inhouse wages are out of control. Not the case at AirTran or jetBlue. Southwest is a lone exception where high wages a
70 Adam T. : Will the CRJ-900s currently at Mesa and operating for AW Express become part of the mainline aircraft if US does infact order them for mainline? Or w
71 A330323X : US will not be ordering the CRJ-900s for mainline under any scenario. Any CRJ-900s ordered will be flown at some combination of Mesa, Air Wisconsin,
72 ATWZW170 : Of course I've read the thread....but I'm not going to believe anything I read on here until I hear it from the horses mouth. How many of you have "fa
73 Post contains images A330323X : I don't know what it is that you're not believing, but I posted the US-ALPA agreement, with all the relevant scope information. Of course, that's rea
74 ATWZW170 : I didn't claim that I don't feel entitled on this thread...in the past in others I've tried not to seem to "pushy", but yes, I do feel that Air Wiscon
75 A330323X : Not even close. Let's see. If ZW gets the flying, they make 100% of the profits from it. But they only own 14% of US. So the other 86% of the investo
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