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Room For Another Alliance  
User currently offlineBHXDTW From Eritrea, joined Feb 2005, 1092 posts, RR: 5
Posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 2549 times:

Im thinking is there room for another world alliance ??
Think about it ... there are many airlines , world class airlines, that are not in an alliance.. though many have ties to current alliance partners, some are not.
I personally feel some alliances are too crowded.. now Puhleeeese dont beat me for saying this (I beg you !) but Skyteam I think has too many american carriers in there alliance...NW/DL/CO ... could we see a low cost alliance ?
wow that would be cool ! Think about it..
What could be the most likely scenarios ?? and ok, for those of you out there like me...(yes, come on..admit it there are some ! ) what would be some awesome but unlikely scenarios ?!?! This is quite an interesting subject as the alliance scene is always changing !
Lets have them !!
personally I want Ethiopian in an alliance !! (ETStar should like that too)
Ok, I want a clean,fair debate..hehe

Joe

27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5934 posts, RR: 40
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 2532 times:

Quoting BHXDTW (Thread starter):
I want Ethiopian in an alliance

I think they will make there way into STAR....

The problem of another alliance would be the main carriers, a new alliance would not have a reall soul...



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineBHXDTW From Eritrea, joined Feb 2005, 1092 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 2504 times:

Avianca... Im putting you on my respected users list, your a great a.netter.
Ok.. Now to tear your comment apart...
How could a new alliance not have soul ?!?!
I mean, Think hypothetically.. what if you had Ethiopian,Aer Lingus,TACA,Alaskan,China Eastern and say.. I dont know..hmm..Egypt Air ?...
ohh.. and TAM...
now ok I know most of them have ties to current alliance members (especially EI) but what if they started an alliance, Im thinking youd have some guts in this alliance...
I dont think its all about the amount of Huge airliners in an alliance.. I think you could have an alliance with smart groovy airlines like WestJet and JetBlue and they'd give an alliance real spunk !!
Look at Star, they started off without the likes of BA,CX,AA etc etc and they carved out a great name for themselves..
Avianca.. welcome to my respected users list.


User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5934 posts, RR: 40
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 2474 times:

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 2):
Avianca... Im putting you on my respected users list, your a great a.netter.

thank you!  cheerful 

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 2):
Ethiopian,Aer Lingus,TACA,Alaskan,China Eastern and say.. I dont know..hmm..Egypt Air ?...
ohh.. and TAM...

the problem would be to find the connections between the gateways...  Smile

no seriously. I think the problem would be the demand on that... for example how many passengers could feeder Ethiopian to TACA, not really much...

But who knows with the one or other airline that is currently not happy with there alliance were they are member it could work...

Maybe we will have in future the one or other LCC alliance like AirBerlin and FlyNiki are doing in the moment adding 2 or 3 airlines to them would be a nice first real LCC alliance in europe.

regards
Avianca



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11458 posts, RR: 58
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2454 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 2):
I mean, Think hypothetically.. what if you had Ethiopian,Aer Lingus,TACA,Alaskan,China Eastern and say.. I dont know..hmm..Egypt Air ?...
ohh.. and TAM...

If you can put TAM (for South America), TACA (Central America), Southwest and JetBlue (US), JAL, China Eastern, Emirates, PIA, TAAG and Ethiopian (Asia and Africa), Air Madrid, Ryanair, Portugalia (Europe)... but i think that when Avianca talks about soul, it means a leader airliner (like AA/BA for OW, LH/UA for *A and AF/DL/CO/NW for ST). Also, in Europe you only will find minor players out of alliances as well as US airlines with international routes are all already in alliances.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineBHXDTW From Eritrea, joined Feb 2005, 1092 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2429 times:

I think though that there are other airlines, developing airlines that will one day turn into big players, maybe not as big as BA or AA, or even AF and JL ..
but look at Kenyan.. they grew up to using 777's .. I can see them being as big as SAA one day.
I admit I dont know a great deal about them but from there network they are a strong carrier with good ties, having an airline like them in a new alliance would surely mean that it would grow speedily.
ET is a good example too...they're steadily growing and ADD is a nice little hub. All we would need is for them to partner say Qatar and maybe a european airline like Alitalia (yes I know they're in S-Team) and you'd have a nice start-up alliance.
How about a LowCost alliance ?


User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5934 posts, RR: 40
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2417 times:

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 5):
How about a LowCost alliance ?

like that?

Quoting Avianca (Reply 3):
Maybe we will have in future the one or other LCC alliance like AirBerlin and FlyNiki are doing in the moment adding 2 or 3 airlines to them would be a nice first real LCC alliance in europe.

I think we will have this in future, otherway the most LCC (mostly smaller ones) have not reall chance...



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineKlyk1980 From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2405 times:

I truly think there are some room for another competitive airliners alliance. But in other to create a comparable network similar as Star Alliance or OneWorld, that's not easy though.

As a long time Star Alliance client (I live in Canada, that's why I am with Star Alliance in must case due to AC/UA partnership), when I try to book reward in Africa or South Pacific, I always feel disappointed. Same to OneWorld.

When I brainstorm, I am wondering if there is an opportunity to create an alliance as follow:

JetBlue (USA), WestJet (Canada), TAM (South America), Air Berlin (Europe), Aeroflot (Europe, Central Asia and Middle East), China Eastern (China, Northeastern Asia), Virgin Blue (Australia / NZ), Australian Airlines (Australia), Kenya Airways (Africa) and JetStar (Southeastern Asia).

Any other ideas????


User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5934 posts, RR: 40
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2388 times:

Quoting Klyk1980 (Reply 7):
JetBlue (USA), WestJet (Canada), TAM (South America), Air Berlin (Europe), Aeroflot (Europe, Central Asia and Middle East), China Eastern (China, Northeastern Asia), Virgin Blue (Australia / NZ), Australian Airlines (Australia), Kenya Airways (Africa) and JetStar (Southeastern Asia).

ad an north-southamerican carrier (but not Avianca!  Big grin )



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineAirxLiban From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 4514 posts, RR: 53
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2375 times:

Some of the world class airlines that aren't already in an alliance don't want to be in an alliance. EK for instance wants to tackle the world on their own.

Quoting BHXDTW (Thread starter):
I think has too many american carriers in there alliance...NW/DL/CO

Two of those three have filed for bankrupcy, so let's not worry too much about how many american carriers there are in Skyteam at the moment. They do cover different territories though. None of those three have a decent presence at LAX though, compared to AA and UA.

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 5):
How about a LowCost alliance ?

That wouldn't fit with the low cost model and we as passengers would have to deal with higher costs.



PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
User currently offlineBrasuca From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 717 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2423 times:

LipeGIG,
Good one!
There is no room for a new Alliance in Europe and North America, because Star. A., One W. and Sky T. have grabbed the market...
There is no important partner in neither, Europe or North America.

One next alliance could try alternative ways, like Asia-South America via Africa or Europe - Oceania via Middle East.

Just analyse that it could not make any difference in the most profitable routes places.

- Far East:
JAL
EVA
Malaysian
China Eastern
Garuda*

- US / Canada:
Alaska
Southwest
America West
Frontier

- Europe:
Virgin (and all their branches)
Aeroflot
Sabena
AirMadrid
RyanAir
Air Europa
JAT

- LAtin America:
TAM
Aerolíneas
Mexicana
TACA
Avianca
LAB

- Middle East / Southwest Asia:
Emirates
EgyptAir
PIA
MEA
Indian Airlines
Qatar
Gulf Air
Air Arabia

- Africa
Ethiopian
RAM


An extreme effort of coordination among them would be necessary to compete with the other three.



Varig, Varig, Varig
User currently offlineBrasuca From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 717 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2354 times:

In Addition, a new alliance would become a regional player only.

Hence possibilities for (regional) Alliances could be:

- for intra-Latin America flights;
- Airlines from Middle East / South West Asia;
- Low Cost airlines in US / Europe (very unlikely)
- Flights in Far East



Varig, Varig, Varig
User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5934 posts, RR: 40
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2347 times:

Quoting Brasuca (Reply 11):
- for intra-Latin America flights;

well we have here LAN and Taca group...better than an alliance or?



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineORD Boy 2 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 292 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2346 times:

I think America West is techincally a Star associate due to the merger with US Airways. Air Europa is a SkyTeam associate and SABENA is out of business. SN Brussels will someday be in oneworld

User currently offlineUSADreamliner From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2328 times:

how about:
" The Black List Airline Alliance"



Cheers!
USADreamliner.  Wink  Smile  crazy   confused 


User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5934 posts, RR: 40
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2315 times:

Quoting USADreamliner (Reply 14):
The Black List Airline Alliance"

sounds good... within short time this alliance would be the number one!!!  Smile



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineBHXDTW From Eritrea, joined Feb 2005, 1092 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2309 times:

Quoting USADreamliner (Reply 14):
how about:
" The Black List Airline Alliance"

Black list as in ... ??
I would love to see an alliance of LCC's where the still have point to point routes and no codeshares but where their flight time link up and maybe interline baggage.. Think of it.. You need to get to some place in Poland that Easyjet doesnt fly to, But Easyjet is part of a cooperating alliance with Whizz, so you fly from STN to WAW meet up with the next whizz flight that leaves from WAW to the polish city your trying to get to and your bags are already interlined and on the next flight.
Do you get the drift ?
I think also Air Tahiti Nui would be an AWESOME candidate for Oneworld !! ok I like star , BUT... can you imagine if OW or even SKY got ahold of NUI ?!?! That would give NZ a big run for its money !!!! plus it would open up LAX to NUI for onward BA flights to Europe !!!
ha ha IM INVINCIBLE !!!!!!!!!  Wink


User currently offlineUSADreamliner From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2288 times:

Black list like Cameroon Airlines banned in France,Flash Air also,etc.
It was just a joke BHXDTW!!Obviously Avianca knows what am I talking about  Smile

Cheers again!
USADreamliner.


User currently offlineBHXDTW From Eritrea, joined Feb 2005, 1092 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2283 times:

Quoting USADreamliner (Reply 17):
Black list like Cameroon Airlines banned in France,Flash Air also,etc.
It was just a joke BHXDTW!!Obviously Avianca knows what am I talking about

hahahaha... HEY DUDE... dont get me wrong its actually quite a good idea.. you could have a black list alliance for those live-life-on-the-edge thrill seekers..
sorry Id just been persuading my wife to look at a pic of a 777 and after being rejected twice I gave up and came back, my mind wasnt on the subject..
Thanks for the explanaition tho !
 Wink


User currently offlineBHXDTW From Eritrea, joined Feb 2005, 1092 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2274 times:

wait a minute.....

Cameroon airlines is banned in France ?!

wow... this I did not know.


User currently offlineKosmonaute From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 90 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2200 times:

Anyone know why JL is not in one of the major three alliances?

And if JL was to join an alliance, which one? Star is obviously out of the question....my pick would be Oneworld, due to their current partnerships with AA, CX, BA and most recently, LA. They also have a partnership with AF, but I see them more as a Oneworld airline rather than a Skyteam airline.

[Edited 2005-09-18 06:06:34]

[Edited 2005-09-18 06:07:58]


Burning airlines give you so much more.
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11458 posts, RR: 58
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2182 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Avianca (Reply 12):
well we have here LAN and Taca group...better than an alliance or?

LAN is already on OW. I imagine you think on Tam and Taca.

Quoting Brasuca (Reply 11):
Low Cost airlines in US / Europe (very unlikely)

Probably this is the hard problem for a fourth alliance: Without a strong US carrier (with an extensive intl network) and a good hub on Europe, they probably face problems.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineSuseJ772 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 824 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2174 times:

Quoting BHXDTW (Thread starter):
could we see a low cost alliance ?

I think what would be cool (notice I didn't say good business practice, as I have no clue how to run an airline), would be something like a Southwest, Easyjet, as long as you had some other airline in there that could get you to Europe/USA. It would have to be somebody small and that fit into Southwest's route structure. Ohh well, just thinkin' - not saying it should happen.



Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2189 times:

Quoting Kosmonaute (Reply 20):
Anyone know why JL is not in one of the major three alliances?

Good question... I would call them a kind of Code-share whore.

-NW and JL have agreements for using WorldPerks on Domestic flights. One can fly to a domestic connection on JL.
-AA and JL have a similar agreement as NW and JL but is goes the otherway. AA can carry JL passengers through on U.S. Domestic and get JAL miles.
-JL and CX have code-shares on select flights to HKG.
-JL and AF have a code-share flight NGO-CDG.
-JL and TG have code-share on select flights to BKK.
I believe they also have code-share with Aeroflot, British Airways, Qantas and SAA.

If they joined an alliance, it would be oneworld because of their long standing agreements with BA and AA.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineKEno From Malaysia, joined Feb 2004, 1842 posts, RR: 27
Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2072 times:

There are two airlines, both of which are not a member of any alliance at the moment, but are among the only 4 airlines in the world to be achieve a 5 Star status by Skytrax global survey :

Qatar Airways & Malaysia Airlines

If so many crap airlines (*) can make it into the existing 3 alliances, I don't see why there's no room for these superior carriers.

(*) These airlines shall remain nameless. You know who you are  Wink


25 Avianca : Brasuca posted regarding regional alliances for example in Southamerica... but we have there already groups like LAN, Taca, and the group arround Avi
26 EddieDude : Add to that JL's codeshares with AM (MEX-YVR operated by JL) and with MX (LAX-Japan). MX is also a codeshare whore. It is close to some of its ex-alli
27 AC787 : With South African joining the fray booking reward travel in Africa should be easier. Having just used a reward ticket through aeroplan to cairo usin
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