744 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 443 posts, RR: 0 Posted (7 years 8 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6262 times:
Why did AC retire their 742's and 744's so early? Didn't they buy them brand new or were they used/leased a/c's? How is long hual flight for e.g. YYZ-TLV, YYZ-DEL on 767 in comparision to a 747? Will they ever buy a 747ADV or A380?
Rgds,
744
Avianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5857 posts, RR: 41 Reply 1, posted (7 years 8 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6221 times:
Quoting 744 (Thread starter): Why did AC retire their 742's and 744's so early?
at least they did only had 3 B744 combies... mostly used for the YUL, YYZ - FRA flights... the fleet was just too small...
Quoting 744 (Thread starter): How is long hual flight for e.g. YYZ-TLV, YYZ-DEL on 767 in comparision to a 747
I would say just the same... I traveled 2 years ago on the B74M from FRA to YUL and on the A330 back from YYZ to FRA and it was pritty the same... maybe the A330 a little better.
ACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7598 posts, RR: 40 Reply 4, posted (7 years 8 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6044 times:
I may be mistaken on the numbers, but I believe that AC had at least 6 B744's, 3 of them acquired from CP during the merger in 2000/2001. The B742's were retired becaue they were simply inefficient to operate. As far as the B744's are concerned, they were retired at least once before just after 2001 and then some were re-entered back into service until last year I believe.
Personally, I do prefer flying the B767 or A330/340 over the B747, for me, the B747 was just too crowded. Plus you can't beat the quiet cabin of the Airbus.
I doubt that AC will be acquiring any B747ADV or A380 anytime soon. However, that could change in time and I'd put my money on the B747ADV.
Intothinair From Germany, joined Mar 2005, 392 posts, RR: 2 Reply 5, posted (7 years 8 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6012 times:
Very interesting. For the flights to FRA that used to be operated by B747-400's, are they flying AC aircraft more frequently to FRA now, as the 747 holds more people than the 767, and the A333, or have they just put an A333 to the route that used to be operated by A 747, without adding extra frequencies?
Patroni From Luxembourg, joined Aug 1999, 1403 posts, RR: 15 Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5955 times:
Quoting Intothinair (Reply 5): For the flights to FRA that used to be operated by B747-400's, are they flying AC aircraft more frequently to FRA now, as the 747 holds more people than the 767, and the A333
I think the 333 offers even more seats than the 747Combi. During winter, AC operated 1 daily 333 YUL-FRA, in summer, frequencies were doubled, but equipment downgraded to 767.
Avianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5857 posts, RR: 41 Reply 7, posted (7 years 8 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5803 times:
Quoting Intothinair (Reply 5): Very interesting. For the flights to FRA that used to be operated by B747-400's, are they flying AC aircraft more frequently to FRA now, as the 747 holds more people than the 767, and the A333, or have they just put an A333 to the route that used to be operated by A 747, without adding extra frequencies?
Quoting Patroni (Reply 6): I think the 333 offers even more seats than the 747Combi. During winter, AC operated 1 daily 333 YUL-FRA, in summer, frequencies were doubled, but equipment downgraded to 767.
yes and regarding the cargo capazity, they have installed several weekly freighter flights with DC10 and MD11...
AC7E7 From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 639 posts, RR: 24 Reply 8, posted (7 years 8 months 4 days ago) and read 5558 times:
Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 4): I may be mistaken on the numbers, but I believe that AC had at least 6 B744's, 3 of them acquired from CP during the merger in 2000/2001. The B742's were retired becaue they were simply inefficient to operate. As far as the B744's are concerned, they were retired at least once before just after 2001 and then some were re-entered back into service until last year I believe.
AC acquired 4 744s from CP. They were used for a short time, but then retired. They now fly for AR. AC's 744C were always in use by the airline. They were retired from service last October. Many A.netters including myself were on the aircraft's last domestic service flight from YUL-YYZ.
Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 4): I doubt that AC will be acquiring any B747ADV or A380 anytime soon. However, that could change in time and I'd put my money on the B747ADV.
Do yourself a favour and don't put your money on AC buying 747adv in the future. AC needs aircraft that hold 300-350 seats. The 747 is simply too large for AC's needs, now and likely in the future. Besides, AC's order for 777s (it will be re-ordered), was meant to rationalize its long-haul fleet. The 773 is plenty big for AC.
Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.
MarshalN From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2005, 1521 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (7 years 8 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5522 times:
Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 4): Personally, I do prefer flying the B767 or A330/340 over the B747, for me, the B747 was just too crowded. Plus you can't beat the quiet cabin of the Airbus.
In the heyday of the YYZ/YVR-HKG route, I think the 744 was the only thing they used to fly that route -- indeed the only thing capable of flying that route. 767 can't fly that, and in those days I don't think they got their A340 yet. It was always packed, and since the flight times are pretty restricted, it really only made sense to use a 744.
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25852 posts, RR: 80 Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5479 times:
Quoting Avianca (Reply 1): at least they did only had 3 B744 combies... mostly used for the YUL, YYZ - FRA flights... the fleet was just too small...
They had 7 744s at one point
Quoting 744 (Thread starter): YYZ-DEL on 767 in comparision to a 747?
I would say it is pretty much impossible to fly YYZ-DEL non-stop on the 767
Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 4): I doubt that AC will be acquiring any B747ADV or A380 anytime soon. However, that could change in time and I'd put my money on the B747ADV.
Neither, AC wants to go with 777s
Quoting Intothinair (Reply 5): For the flights to FRA that used to be operated by B747-400's, are they flying AC aircraft more frequently to FRA now, as the 747 holds more people than the 767, and the A333, or have they just put an A333 to the route that used to be operated by A 747, without adding extra frequencies?
The 74E had about 150-200 fewer seats than a normal 744, but a whole lot of cargo capacity
Quoting Avianca (Reply 7): yes and regarding the cargo capazity, they have installed several weekly freighter flights with DC10 and MD11...
Must be wet leased
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
YULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2107 posts, RR: 6 Reply 11, posted (7 years 8 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5181 times:
Quoting 744 (Thread starter): How is long hual flight for e.g. YYZ-TLV, YYZ-DEL on 767 in comparision to a 747
The same, in more convenient, no double excuse-me, shorter boarding lines and baggage claim wait.
Quoting N1120A (Reply 10): would say it is pretty much impossible to fly YYZ-DEL non-stop on the 767
Which is why they fly a 343 on that route!
Quoting MarshalN (Reply 9): In the heyday of the YYZ/YVR-HKG route, I think the 744 was the only thing they used to fly that route -- indeed the only thing capable of flying that route. 767 can't fly that, and in those days I don't think they got their A340 yet.
And now it's split between YVR-HKG and YYZ-HKG non-stop, which means even less need for a 747.
KrisYYZ From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1575 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (7 years 8 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4772 times:
AC's B747 Combies, as all Combies had re-enforced airframe, floor and bulkhead between the cargo and pax sections. The heavy B747 had a higher then type normal fuel burn, therefore not economically sound for AC. Milton did say he loved the B747, they where his favorite aircraft but didn't meet AC's needs. I believe along side the A333/340 and B767 flights to LHR , FRA, AC leases an MD-11 for cargo capacity to FRA.
YULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2107 posts, RR: 6 Reply 16, posted (7 years 8 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4758 times:
Quoting MarshalN (Reply 12): Can ANY 767 reach TLV from YYZ? I was under the impression that that's slightly beyond range.... maybe I'm wrong.
I THINK AC has already done that, with a 763ER. Maybe they still fly that route. If they do, it's certain it's not with a 343.
Cessnapimp From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 1320 posts, RR: 23 Reply 18, posted (7 years 8 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4514 times:
MD90fan,
I think C-GAGN and C-GAGL were indeed sent there for full freighter conversion in Israel, only not for AC; for another operator that has taken them up.
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25852 posts, RR: 80 Reply 19, posted (7 years 8 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3812 times:
Quoting MarshalN (Reply 12): Can ANY 767 reach TLV from YYZ? I was under the impression that that's slightly beyond range.... maybe I'm wrong.
Quoting AC777LR (Reply 17): Yes YYZ to TLV is still a 767-333ER, and it does it every day.
It is a 763ER now though it has been a 762ER as well as a 772ER and a 744 as well
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
Cgagn From Canada, joined Sep 2003, 345 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (7 years 8 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2880 times:
Quoting Vasu (Reply 20): I flew GAGN in 2000 (even got to sit briefly in the copilot's seat somewhere over the Atlantic! Any news on its whereabouts would be much appreciated!
I'd like to know too!. My username should speak for itself!
C-GAGN
Widebodies flown on: A330-300,A340-300,A380-800,747-400,767-200ER,767-300ER,777-200A,777-200ER,777-200LR,777-300ER
Planesailing From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 802 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (7 years 8 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2860 times:
Quoting Vasu (Reply 20): I flew GAGN in 2000 (even got to sit briefly in the copilot's seat somewhere over the Atlantic! Any news on its whereabouts would be much appreciated!
25075 868 Boeing 747-433(SF) N575GP Honeywell International 01.06.2005 Active N6009F, C-GAGN
ACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7598 posts, RR: 40 Reply 23, posted (7 years 8 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2780 times:
Quoting AC7E7 (Reply 8): AC acquired 4 744s from CP
Was it 4? I thought it was only 3. Thanks!
Quoting AC7E7 (Reply 8): Do yourself a favour and don't put your money on AC buying 747adv in the future. AC needs aircraft that hold 300-350 seats. The 747 is simply too large for AC's needs, now and likely in the future. Besides, AC's order for 777s (it will be re-ordered), was meant to rationalize its long-haul fleet. The 773 is plenty big for AC.
Quoting N1120A (Reply 10): Neither, AC wants to go with 777s
I never said that they were interested in them. I said that some time in the future it could change, and if their needs were to change I would put my money on the B747ADV.
Planesailing From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 802 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (7 years 8 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2774 times:
Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 23): Quoting AC7E7 (Reply 8):
AC acquired 4 744s from CP
Was it 4? I thought it was only 3. Thanks!
3 -475's and 1 -4F6.
C-GMWW Boeing 747-475 24883 823 Air Canada 29.03.2001 Stored, last with 24883 LLC N6018N N987PG
C-FCRA Boeing 747-475 24895 837 Air Canada 29.03.2001 Active with Aerolineas Argentinas N895NC, LV-AXF
C-GAGL Boeing 747-433(M) 24998 840 Air Canada 04.06.1991 Stored, last with WFBN Wells Fargo Bank Northwest N6018N N998GP
C-GAGM Boeing 747-433(M) 25074 862 Air Canada 16.07.1991 Active with Air India N770PC, VT-AIM
C-GAGN Boeing 747-433(M) 25075 868 Air Canada 30.08.1991 Active with Honeywell International N6009F N575GP
C-FBCA Boeing 747-475 25422 912 Air Canada 29.03.2001 Active with Aerolineas Argentinas N971PG, LV-ALJ
C-FGHZ Boeing 747-4F6 27827 1038 Air Canada 29.03.2001 Active with Philippine Airlines N6055X RP-C8168
25 Accargo: AC operates daily YYZ-TLV using 767-300 equipment. It has not used a 762ER, nor a 744 on that route to the best of my knowledge, and it has no 772ER'
26 Cayman: I think he was referring to El Al which has defly used 763 772 and 744 into YYZ at different times--cheers---
27 AC7E7: Agreed. But trust me....It will not happen...
28 Sebring: The only scenario that I can see justifying a 400-500 seat plane at AC would be if the Canada-China and Canada-India markets both go through the roof
29 Accargo: My mistake, I thought we were discussing AC, I didn't see any mention of EL AL. Cheers.
30 Ktachiya: Just some interesting information. I just can't believe that AC puts their B767-300ER on their YYZ-NRT runs. I thought that was pushing the range of
32 Vasu: Must be some kind of flying test bed, right?
33 TPASXM787: Score! My company owns a 744! Hmmm...stored...we need to get that baby out and flying!
34 Avianca: at one point but not the last year... they had just 3 ones... only used for the YYZ-FRA-YYZ and YUL-FRA-FRA route + sometime YYZ-LHR-YYZ. MD-11 and D
35 ScarletHarlot: Probably. Where can one find this information you guys are posting about who owns what planes? Can you query and say like "show me all planes Honeywe
36 Accargo: AC wet-leases both MD-11's and DC-10's (preference to MD-11 when available) to operate freighter routes to PVG, FRA, LAX, MEX from YYZ.
37 Avianca: currently they have 1 weekly MD11 flight and 4 DC10 flights to FRA. regards Avianca
38 Planesailing: http://www.planespotters.net/Airline/Honeywell_International Honeywell used only one 744, reg N575GP. It is owned by WFBN Wells Fargo Bank Northwest.
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