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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?  
User currently offlineFlyingHippo From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 684 posts, RR: 1
Posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 9640 times:

With reports of 787 has exceeded 800 orders already, it has certainly proved itself has an excellent plane, with lots of airlines ordering 787-3/8s.

So, which international airlines will NOT order the 787? (Please do not financial reasons for not ordering 787...)

A couple of airlines I could think of is IB, QR and EK (unless there is a 787-10)
Others: VS - Don't see a need for it
CI/BR - ditto, unless there is 787-10 to replace their 330s down the road.
FJ/Air Tahiti Nui: They like 4 engines because of their hub locations
And some South American airlines?

Your thoughts?

[Edited 2005-09-19 21:55:12]

63 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGlom From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2818 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 9602 times:

I don't know about 800 orders. I think that figure was a misprint in that one article.

User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5772 posts, RR: 47
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 9574 times:

TAP - they and Airus are joined at the hip.
IB - ditto
any LCCs



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16877 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 9572 times:

Quoting FlyingHippo (Thread starter):
So, which international airlines will NOT order the 787?

The one's that go out of business before it's launched.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineAA787 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 610 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 9560 times:

FlyI, just dont see it.

AA787



ET In NYC
User currently offlineFlyingHippo From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 684 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 9527 times:

Quoting AA787 (Reply 4):
FlyI, just dont see it.

Let me ask again... Which INTERNATIONAL AIRLINES won't order the 787... Which means it will exclude WN, B6, FlyI... (Althought I wouldn't be surprised if WN orders the -3 down the road)


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26534 posts, RR: 75
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 9510 times:

Quoting FlyingHippo (Thread starter):
CI/BR - ditto, unless there is 787-10 to replace their 330s down the road.

BR, with their heavy cargo ops, would be able to put any sized 787 to good use. Also, considering the range conditions for Taiwan-US flights, the 787 is definately a good idea to open up thinner routes as well as a seasonal sub.

Quoting FlyingHippo (Thread starter):
FJ/Air Tahiti Nui: They like 4 engines because of their hub locations

FJ operates 2 engine aircraft all the time, including a 738 that goes NAN-HNL-YVR. There was talk of them getting a couple A332s to replace their 767s, but no mention has been made since. The 787 would be an ideal aircraft for them to open up thinner, longer routes.

Quoting FlyingHippo (Thread starter):
And some South American airlines?

RG, TAM, and LAN all use widebodied twins and that is likely to continue. Also, given LAN's major cargo operation, the 788 would be an excellent aircraft with the range to connect to many gateways in the US and Europe



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5032 posts, RR: 44
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 9470 times:

Quoting FlyingHippo (Thread starter):
it has certainly proved itself has an excellent plane,

How's that? It hasn't even flown yet.


User currently offlineLazyshaun From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 548 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 9471 times:

Qantas?

I agree with you on IB, it is highly unlikely to see a Boeing order from that airline.

I wouldn't imagine AF or LH, although never say never.
I only presume they would go with the A350 if they needed an a/c in that range. LH haven't ordered any "new" Boeing jets for a long while, and the fact that they Have a healthy fleet of 330's, 340, it seems they preffer Airbus jets.
Same assumption with AF; vast Airbus fleet, unlikely to order any 737s as they are phasing out their current 733/5s. Although they have recently ordered 777s, their 747 fleet, especially the older types, are not likely to stay for too many more years.

Out of the two airlines, I think AF are more likely to order it, but I don't think they will.



I came. I saw. I conquered
User currently offlineFlyingHippo From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 684 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 9435 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 6):
FJ operates 2 engine aircraft all the time, including a 738 that goes NAN-HNL-YVR. There was talk of them getting a couple A332s to replace their 767s, but no mention has been made since. The 787 would be an ideal aircraft for them to open up thinner, longer routes.

Thanks for this info, didn't know that!

Quoting N1120A (Reply 6):
BR, with their heavy cargo ops, would be able to put any sized 787 to good use. Also, considering the range conditions for Taiwan-US flights, the 787 is definately a good idea to open up thinner routes as well as a seasonal sub.

How would their heavy cargo operation make them want to order 787?

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 7):
How's that? It hasn't even flown yet.

With 800+ orders before the plane is even flown, it's pretty safe to say that this airplane will have a bright future. But, I could be wrong.


User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 9345 times:

Quoting FlyingHippo (Reply 5):
FJ operates 2 engine aircraft all the time, including a 738 that goes NAN-HNL-YVR. There was talk of them getting a couple A332s to replace their 767s, but no mention has been made since. The 787 would be an ideal aircraft for them to open up thinner, longer routes.

Yes, they have a coupla' different flavors of the 737...700 and 800.
But as for the 787, I don't think they'll get'em new...look towards 2015-2020.

South America? I can't think of a single carrier that WILL buy it.

Quoting FlyingHippo (Reply 5):
RG, TAM, and LAN all use widebodied twins and that is likely to continue.

I don't know, as I see it, JJ, RG, and LA will likely keep it in the Airbus family.
Good thing is, things change..
RG could use it; but can they afford it?

Quoting Glom (Reply 1):
I don't know about 800 orders

?????
I think they are forecasting 800 orders by the time it enters service...
or,
They meant orders for the "800" version, because the 787 does not have those orders yet, not even close!



Delete this User
User currently offlineGlom From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2818 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 9138 times:

Quoting FlyingHippo (Reply 5):
Let me ask again... Which INTERNATIONAL AIRLINES won't order the 787...

You mean which long haul airlines won't because EasyJet and Ryanair fly international routes with narrowbodies.


User currently offlineN60659 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 654 posts, RR: 24
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 9081 times:

Quoting Stirling (Reply 10):
I think they are forecasting 800 orders by the time it enters service...

The figure of 850 includes announced firm orders, options and purchase rights in addition to other on-going sales campaigns:

http://www.flightinternational.com/A...ng+studies+787+double-stretch.html

"Meanwhile, Boeing confirms studies of a radical production ramp-up that could see up to 14 aircraft a month rolling out of the Everett site by 2011. The current plan would see the rate peak at seven a month by mid-2009. The new plan is to cope with orders and commitments for the new twinjet that are now said to exceed 850 ."

-N60659



Nec Dextrorsum Nec Sinistrorsum
User currently offlineZkojh From China, joined Sep 2004, 1707 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 8999 times:

I'd say BMI (BD) as they want to have an all airbus fleet , and more into the A330's on their longhaul runs, then looking at boeing aircraft,


CZ 787 to AKL can't wait.
User currently offlineArcano From Chile, joined Mar 2004, 2408 posts, RR: 23
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 8964 times:

Quoting Stirling (Reply 10):
don't know, as I see it, JJ, RG, and LA will likely keep it in the Airbus family.

Remember that LA is still some of the largest operators of the 767 (11th I think) and they just bought some new ones.

And after buying more 767s and keep delaying the rest of the 340 deliveries, I think LAN is seriously doubting about transforming their wide body fleet to all airbus, but who knows...

Regards )(



in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773 and 380
User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3509 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 8959 times:

Quoting FlyingHippo (Reply 9):
With 800+ orders before the plane is even flown, it's pretty safe to say that this airplane will have a bright future. But, I could be wrong.

There are no 800 orders for 787. Stop repeating this false info.


User currently offlineBlackhawk144 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 8933 times:

Quoting FlyingHippo (Thread starter):
So, which international airlines will NOT order the 787?



Quoting FlyingHippo (Reply 5):
Quoting AA787 (Reply 4):
FlyI, just dont see it.

Let me ask again... Which INTERNATIONAL AIRLINES won't order the 787... Which means it will exclude WN, B6, FlyI... (Althought I wouldn't be surprised if WN orders the -3 down the road)

International to whom? You? Be a little more specific than "International". Someone from the UK could've easily suggested this, and you would've pounded them for being "local", but the US to them is international.

You shouldn't say International.

Anthony


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7563 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 8893 times:

Quoting Lazyshaun (Reply 8):
I agree with you on IB, it is highly unlikely to see a Boeing order from that airline

Unless, of course, BA buys IB!


User currently offlineER757 From Cayman Islands, joined May 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 8764 times:

Doubt you'll see any in these airlines' fleets
Etihad
Iran Air
South African
Aeroflot
US Air
Air Jamaica


User currently offlineAfay1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1293 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 8682 times:

Aeroflot's board is already discussing whether or not to buy the 787. Boeing has a major design center in Moscow....

User currently offlineKulatict From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days ago) and read 8581 times:

US/HP... for as long as they still owes Airbus 250mil

User currently offlineSlarty From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 342 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8537 times:

Quoting N60659 (Reply 12):
"Meanwhile, Boeing confirms studies of a radical production ramp-up that could see up to 14 aircraft a month rolling out of the Everett site by 2011. The current plan would see the rate peak at seven a month by mid-2009. The new plan is to cope with orders and commitments for the new twinjet that are now said to exceed 850 ."

Wow. With the price of oil going exponential, flying newer AB or BA aircraft could be the difference between failure and success. I expect the sales of most new aircraft to go through the roof over the next 2 years.


User currently offlineSupa7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8515 times:

Yes, the high oil prices are

GREAT GREAT!!

for Boeing.


User currently offlineSNATH From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3247 posts, RR: 22
Reply 23, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8515 times:

Quoting Lazyshaun (Reply 8):
I wouldn't imagine AF or LH, although never say never.

Actually, the B787-3 will be a good replacement for LH's A300s. LH are not in a hurrry to replace them, apparently. However, they will have to start looking for a replacement in a few years. And, the B787-3 is with a chance, unless they decide to use a fleet of smaller jets in order to increase frequency.

Regards,

Tony



Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4395 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8505 times:

Quoting Stirling (Reply 10):
South America? I can't think of a single carrier that WILL buy it.

LA, RG, AV.........

Quoting Stirling (Reply 10):
I don't know, as I see it, JJ, RG, and LA will likely keep it in the Airbus family.

RG is all boeing......dude why airbus they have never bought airbus and love boeing as AV also do.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
25 IRelayer : What the heck is the point of this thread? Where do people get 800 from? 787 orders aren't even in the 400 range yet. Seriously, there is idle specula
26 Stirling : Don't know why I included RG in the list when I mostly meant JJ, and to a lesser degree LA. I meant to mention RG as not ordering the 787, but for fi
27 Post contains images PipoA380 : Swiss. All airbus fleet (except their jumbolinos...) so I would be VERY amazed if they were to order the 787 Philippe
28 Post contains images FlySSC : 800 ??? I would love to have confirmation of that figure with the real list of all the customers .... How possible ? It hasn't flown yet !!! It has n
29 Post contains images Glideslope : I'd say when all is said and done you are looking at 2-3 airlines!
30 Shenzhen : Just list the airlines that purchased or will purchase the A350. Cheers
31 Post contains images FlySSC : Why ??? Just like some airlines are operating both the A340 & B777, I am sure there will be some airlines to operate in the future both the A350 & B7
32 GARPD : The 800 figures comes from an article with cites the that number is a collection of firm orders, commitments and airlines with LOIs. There was no lis
33 Post contains images Maersk737 : Well then, why don't we just say 1000 ? Cheers Peter
34 Post contains images GARPD : Because the article said 800. back at ya
35 Post contains images Maersk737 : Well, we must be able to find an article that says 200 ? Then it all adds up Cheers Peter
36 Eha : I would rather think 800 represent the number of possible orders including current open sales proposals. E.
37 GARPD : Thats what I was trying to say
38 Post contains images OURBOEING : Let me put it this way, I don't see any airline with purely Airbus or Boeing fleet. They will order the 787 and they will order the A350. And the A380
39 USAF336TFS : We should never assume that any airline will NEVER buy any aircraft. History has proven that false, many times. I agree that there are some airlines l
40 Jet-lagged : That is a telling exercise. Here is another one. Take the current order logs for A350 and B787, and remove the top two customers- Qatar and ALAFCO fo
41 S.p.a.s. : Errr, never is a bit harsh, mate. Once upon a long time ago Varig operated four A300B4s, two as Varig and two with Cruzeiro do Sul livery. Indeed the
42 FlyingHippo : While I respect your opion, I do not think this is a thread to start a A vs B war, that's certainly not my intention. You can search all of the posts
43 Post contains images USADreamliner : LAB,AerolineasArgentinas,PLuna,Cubana,Greenlandair,Polynesian,AirTahitiNui,Hawwaiian,Malev,Austrian,Alitalia,Olympic,RoyalJordanian,SriLankan,RoyalAir
44 Post contains images B742 : I don't think Sabena will order the 787 Seriously, I don't think that TG will, rather for the A350 I think! (Unless they opt for the 787 to replace th
45 A350 : Never say never! Aircraft purchases are often a result of negociations tactics rather than long-term-strategies. Furthermore, an airline can opt for t
46 IRelayer : From the FI article mentioned in this thread: Meanwhile, Boeing confirms studies of a radical production ramp-up that could see up to 14 aircraft a m
47 Post contains images FlyingHippo : I based my statement from FI's article, which said "The new plan is to cope with orders and commitments for the new twinjet that are now said to exce
48 Blsbls99 : How is 850 "future expected" orders and committments when the article clearly states that "orders and commitments for the new twinjet that are now sai
49 AirFrnt : Umm. Note capitalization... Boeing clearly has the orders, or they would not be looking at increasing the production rate at this point. I expect tha
50 IRelayer : Because the article, and that sentence in particular, is awkwardly written (maybe intentionally so, to confuse people). Boeing is planning on 850+ or
51 N60659 : IRelayer, I am truly confused. In reply 46 you state: Just to set the record straight, I have not latched on to anything. I was the one that produced
52 Alessandro : Iran Air will certainly not order any...
53 IRelayer : Why are you confused? You shouldn't be confused. I understood what they meant perfectly. Too bad you didn't. To prove me wrong, please answer this qu
54 Post contains links Blsbls99 : The 850 number comes from Flight International: http://www.flightinternational.com/A...g+studies+787+double-stretch+.html
55 LipeGIG : Also G3. Gol can probably even order some 787 quicker than RG, just in a couple years. S.p.a.s, i see Gol using the 787 on their future international
56 FlyingHippo : No one in this discussion has stated that Boeing has 800+ orders and committments plus options (well, except me, which was based on the Flight Intern
57 Post contains links N60659 : FlyingHippo summed it up rather well, the figure was published by FI, so you can choose to believe it or not. It's your choice. I'll put my stock in
58 Areopagus : I Googled "Mike Bair 850 787" and found this in the Composites News: ---------- American aircraft maker Boeing is studying the possibility of increasi
59 IRelayer : My point is that you are claiming that the 787 has 850 orders at this point in time: That is simply not true. "Signifigant interest and promise of or
60 Blsbls99 : So, is Flight International online wrong in reporting this "850" number? Have they reported false information in the past to make some of you so skept
61 N60659 : My point is that I am claiming nothing - the figure of 850 is not my assertion. I'm beginning to wonder whether you even read the article quoted here
62 IRelayer : No they are not reporting false information. It is just that some people are taking it to mean that the 787 has garnered 850 orders as of this point,
63 Ken777 : I don't think Boeing would be looking at ramping up production if there was no interest by airlines in buying those slots. It's not an easy task to wo
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