Aviationman From Canada, joined Dec 1999, 634 posts, RR: 0 Posted (14 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3135 times:
Thank you aviation fans for taking the time to come up with names fore our new airline. All the names sounded very good for our airline.
It seemed as if everyone wanted to know the new name of our airline, what aircraft we will be using, the cities that we will be flying to, and where will we have our hub, well, I got the answer to all of those questions.
The new name of you airline is............Endeavor Airlines. I find it is a great name and will someday be a famous one.
Although most people think we're going to use the A320s as our aircraft(so did I) we decided to go with the boeing 717. Although I like the A320 better, we wanted a newer and safer plane, so we went with the 717.
We will start service in late 2001 or early 2002 and we plane to serve 30 North American cities in less than 3 years after we started flying. We plan to fly from Chicago-Midway airport (MDW) to the following.
Minneapolis/St. Paul (MSP)
Dallas/Fort Worth (DFW)
St. Louis (STL)
Los Angeles (LAX)
Salt Lake City (SLC)
Las Vegas (LAS)
Madison, WI (MSN)
FlyAA757 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1013 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (14 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2932 times:
So...A couple of questions:
1)When are you filing with the DOT? How are your applications going? Please give us some details as there is no record of your company whatsoever with the DOT or FAA under ANY name.
2)What company do you plan on getting gates from at Midway in order to serve 30 cities? Do you know how many gates that would take? Do you know how many gates are currently available at MDW? I do.
3)Please defend this statement, as I have a hard time believing that any respectable person in the industry would make this comment: "Although most people think we're going to use the A320s as our aircraft(so did I) we decided to go with the boeing 717. Although I like the A320 better, we wanted a newer and safer plane, so we went with the 717." The 717 newer? Yes. Safer? No.
People! Do you think Don Carty or Ron Allen would ever make a statement as such that could compromise the flying public's confidence in air travel or a particular aircraft? NO.Of course not!
This is most likely my last post on the subject. I know that 400 kiddies will line up to defend 'Endeavour Airlines', but I challenge YOU, Aviationman do give us any proof whatsoever(A DOT filing, any link or document, perhaps even some performance figures you've looked into for Airbus/BA a/c out of MDW) that can validate your claims. While it may be fun for the younger people in our group to fantasize about naming an airline, and it's exotic destinations, to state they are a fact is a blatent lie.
The ball is in your court. Proove Yourself. If you are telling the truth, this should not be a problem whatsoever.
A330 From Belgium, joined May 1999, 649 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (14 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2908 times:
Aviationman,it seems that your "Airline" experts simply do not have a clue about aviation.
A320 is by far preferable for the destinations you mentioned.
Endeavor is written Endeavour in correct english (And I am NOT a native speaker).
Where are you going to get the Slots, gates and approval to operate from Midway?
In my opinion, you are just fantasizing...
So, prove us wrong, give us more details, because I sure can't find anything to prove you are genuine.
Off course, If you really plan to go ahead with a dream, i wish you all the best and A LOT of succes (You'll gonna need it).
Oh, and please, do hire some professional people if you want to succeed...
Blink182 From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 1999, 5482 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (14 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2890 times:
i agree with the above, i mean you are acting like this is a fantasy airline and you dont sound too serious about it, when you come up with a DOT approval and destination start up dates, i will beleive you.
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
Jsheldon From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 205 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (14 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2879 times:
Endeavor is the American English spelling. Adding a u would be Great Britian English, just like colour, where here in America we say color. And I agree on a Boeing over the Airbus, but other than that, the chances of this ever happening just don't sound realistic.
SWA737-500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (14 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2862 times:
Have a little faith you guys. You know, I feel sorry for all four of you. You've appearently lost everything you ever had as a child, and that's sad. What makes you want to burst his ballon? Couldn't you just leave well enough alone? It's not hurting you, but you're hurting it, so please keep your comments to yourself.
Dr.DTW From United States of America, joined May 2000, 290 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (14 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2855 times:
This is a ficticious airline!!....it doesn't, or will ever exist! Please! Don't tell me that some of you were actually taking this seriously???? It sounds like someone is just playing out a fantasy. Let him have his fun, and if you want, you can play along to.
SWA737-500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (14 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2828 times:
Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, the fact is that YOU don't know, you can only guess. But hey, why does it matter? If it is real, it's still early in the game, and we'll hear about it later on. If it's fake, I'm sure Chris will let us know before we get to enthusiastic.
FlyCMH From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 2282 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (14 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2824 times:
Umm, flights between Chicago Midway and Cincinnati is not a wise move. Delta is the dominant carrier at CVG, and will remain that way. Vanguard already tried the route, twice, and failed both times. And don't count too much on alot of O&D traffic to CVG. Delta is already the airline of choice for most Cincinnati businesses. You have to offer a product infinity superior to Delta in order to survive in CVG, especially on a route such as CVG-MDW.
Cleveland to Midway should work okay. Southwest, and I believe Continental serve MDW from CLE. But, if possible, I would recommend serving Akron/Canton International instead of CLE. CAK is rapidly becoming the alternative to CLE, and all airlines are growing rapidly there.
Also, I would recommend offering service to either Dayton or Toledo. Toledo is looking for nonstops to Midway, and Dayton's only service to Midway is with ATA Connection.
I would really enjoy seeing Endeavor Airlines here in Columbus, but I think the MDW market is already saturated from CMH. Southwest has 6 daily nonstops and Mesa has 7 daily nonstops. Depending on the aircraft utilized, you could pull off a CMH route to MDW, but it would be a challenge.
Dr.DTW From United States of America, joined May 2000, 290 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (14 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2792 times:
OH MY GOSH!....you mean to seriously tell me that there are educated people who really think this "airline" is potentially for real? You gotta be kinding me!!!
My fellow colleagues....listen to me...this is a joke...it is not for real. If you want to take part in the fantasy, by all means, please do so, and I hope you have fun and you enjoy yourselves. That's what this is about! But please, I beg of you, don't take this seriously.
Oh, by the way, I'm going to Seattle next week to trade in my '97 Mustang for a 757.
I'll bet you a million dollars that someone is going to post a ten page, 3000 word essay, which describes in explicit economic and practical detail why it is impossibiligy for me to trade a Mustang for a 757, and they then will conclude their lengthy analysis by calling me a liar.
People, learn how to play along with comedy and fantasy.
TWAneedsHELP From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (14 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2793 times:
In the last thread, you said something like, "I can't remeber 20 emails." Aviationman, the reason people here doubt that you are even close to starting an airline is simply because of statements like the above. Can't remember emails hey? How you gonna remember that your STARTING A GODDAM AIRLINE? You certainly have proved that far from the next Gordon Bethune, your more in the "5-15" age grouping. But hey you got an airport a list of startup cities, a plane picked out and now a name, so your all ready to go! People have said aviation is difficult and complex and some airlines, (gasp) have gone out of business, but you'll do just fine because your airline is called "Endeavor" (American spelling). Well, go on an endeavor to buy yourself a plan book, so your can start writing things down. 20 email adresses isn't a bad start.
My last opinion on the name. Its boring. Very boring. Explain how "Endeavor" has any relevance to your new enterprise. CLE-MDW, is that what you call an "endeavor"? Exciting 1 hour flight operated by like 5 other airlines?
Sorry about the mean words, but keep reading you may even find it insightful.
You didn't really have much to pick from so maybe its not your faul. Endeavor, Union, Freedom, Liberty, TransPacific, Diamond, and Crystal? Boring vague names that stir no emotion or excitement. Explain how an airline has anything to do with freedom or liberty?
In a basic commodity business where people are chooing to fly for reasons like availability/schedules, prices, and FF points, the name will be meaningless. However, cool, fun fresh names can only set you apart.
In that regard I submit names like "Fresh Air" or "Smile".
Cool and hip, score points with ingenuity. Just another airline with another hub, flying the same plane types to the same cities is a doomed failure. Given, this industry allows for very little variation anyway. In reality what can UA do differently that AA can't on flights where they compete? Nothing, even if one lowers the price, the other by common econmic law has to also. That's how the industry operates. Unless you can remove yourself from the system, by offering something unique and different your just as subject to prices and cut throat competition as everyone else. Claiming your "Chicago's hometown airline" will mean nothing. In fact, such a cliched phrase may even loose you passengers. So how to innovate and be successful in aviation? Extraordinarily difficult. In the past a few airlines have attempted to try and "operate outside the system" by delivering different product. MGM Grand Air comes to mind. One can try and build a niche like that, and perhaps there is something to be said for that. But basic, lesuire, middle-income business travelers haven't changed much through the years and your "airline" isn't positioned to get them any more than any other airline was. Unless you have a plan. David Neeleman in NY has a plan, albeit a weak one. He wants to make his airline fun, hip, and trendy. He's flying new European planes with cute FAs in classy outfits and a snazzy internet presence. Thats his plan to be different. He is trying to make flying (which for years had lost all cache and class) fun and sophisticated. Will it pay off? Perhaps, but at least now you have an idea that new airlines need some kind of "something" to differentiate. They are a few expception of course. Frontier and AirTran are surviving because they moved into markets with one monopolistic airline abusing its passengers. UA and DL respectively of course. They carved out a secondary carrier niche. Nothing brilliant, just expoliting a market with a little room. Neither airline has done aything creative or new or even attempted to differentiate themselves from their competition. They diferentiate on price, and hope that last minute business travelers will take them instead because they may be cheaper. They also look for very cheap leisure travellers looking to pay very little. Thats their business and they know their customer well. They manage costs religiously, and spend little on image or luxury. Thats fine because thats their market.
You seem like a kid interested in the business, which is neat because I was too a little while ago all gung ho about my "airline" called "New England". I liked it just like you like Endeavor. I drew out route maps, and planned giant fleets of beautiful aircraft at hub fortresses I could call my own. Of course that day, if ever, hasn't materialized, but next year I'll be at Cornell, and hopefully continue to learn more about a very complex BUT PREDICTABLE business such as this one. Thats the one advantage you have. COMMERCIAL AVIATION IS VERY PREDICTABLE. NO SURPIRSES HERE. Airlines will continue to operate in 10-20 years just like they do now and for the most part did 10-20 years ago. Fares have gone down and the gov't has retreated to Washington, but its bascially very simimar.
In the end, don't waiste so much time on the name. Your business will make the name. You can find the best name in the world and have a lousy airline and than what? You can have a lousy name, like Southwest, but have a very strong business plan and execution and than your all set. I remember writing this before. Before the store, "gap" was a space between your teeth, "yahoo" was a drink, and "viagra" well who the hell knew what viagra was. If this is an airline, I'm sure you'd be diligently spending your time rasing capital, negotiaing deals, and planning ahead.
Good luck to you, and now that you know a little about how commerical aviaton works, you can go from there.
SWA737-500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (14 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2793 times:
Dr.DTW, TWAneedsHELP, Cedarjet, and the rest. Unless you can show me (through eMail please) written and signed consent from Aviationman (aka "Chris") that this is not real and any way, shape, or form, I refuse to beleive one way or the other!
If he is thinking of starting an airline, I would like to help. If he is not starting an airline, I'd like to know.
But you can't just change my mind with your guesses (and you can't tell me that they are anything more without the letter I requested from you).
If any of you have that letter, please send it to Emadstar@Bainbridge.net
Until then, I would like to ask that you stop this childish treatment.
LBSteve From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (14 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2771 times:
*Off topic* I think the Brits/English/Canadians/Australians will never cease to chide America’s decision to remove the ‘u’ form words like colo (u) r, etc. Reforming the language laws were the most logical course for us at the time. *Off topic*
NWA Man From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1828 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (14 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2760 times:
UKFly...The Endeavor livery looks a lot like Sun Country's new one...
Aviation Man...If (and a big if) you start this airline, you're gonna have a few problems. First, it'll be a real endeavor to get people to hop on 717s to places like LAS, PHX, YVR, and LAX, with the latter really pushing the range of your new bird. The runways aren't that long at MDW, by the way.
Second, do you know how cutthroat the competition from MSP to Chicago is? Let me name the carriers flying this. NW, AA, UA, FL, American Trans Air, Vanguard... Let's see what kind of endeavor getting out of Chapter 11 is.
Lastly, are you planning on building a new terminal at MDW? Have you been there recently? The ATA terminal is packed, the main terminal is packed, National Airlines is using NW's gates, you get the picture. There is no room for anyone at MDW. Gates are the size of closets. There is no space whatsoever.
We're Nuts From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5722 posts, RR: 19
Reply 20, posted (14 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2731 times:
I have to ask, how many of you (those who don't beleive in this) can give me ACTUAL proof that this is not real, besides the fact that it may not be planned well, or that he doesn't have perfect spelling? You are guessing, nothing more.
Capt.Fantastic From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 747 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (14 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2730 times:
You actually buy into this? Oh yeah ... he's starting an airline, so he has time to spend on an internet forum, asking a bunch of total strangers for advice. Hmmm, yes, that makes perfect sense to me. How silly of me to think otherwise. Of course, if I were starting an airline like aviationman, I would surely go to the internet to solicit name suggestions. There is no way in hell I would do something stupid like hire a marketing firm, or Wall Street consultants. Internet strangers are much more wise and business savy. By the way, if you didn't pick up on it, I am being sarcastic!
SW737500: Can you smell coffee? This is nothing more than a fantasy: a way to live out the dream of actually creating your own airline. I can't believe that you actually want proof that this is anything other than that! Come on man, where's your common sense? Geez!!!
P.S. Hey I want to start an airline too. Can you buy A320s on Airbus's web-site? Also: Who wants to be my head of safety? First one to respond gets the job. Aviationman ... wanna merge? :P
Iceposttm From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (14 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2687 times:
I think it was a very good choice to go with the 717. I also have something to say about where you come into. I live in oklahoma city and we have 1 northwestern gate 3 american 2 united 5 southwest and 2 contenital. Our airport (will rogers world airport)
is suppoed be have a whole new terminal built by 2004. but with our wonderful city planners it will probably be 2007. anyways. I think that your airline would do very good on a chicago to okc and then on to dallas and back route. I hope you change your mind and hope to come in to our airport. I would love to fly with you.