Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Why Do Airlines Want To Have All A/B Fleets?  
User currently offlineLazyshaun From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 549 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5257 times:

Some airlines go through years of plane retirement and ordering to make sure they end up all Airbus/Boeing.

Why is this? Maybe if you only have a small fleet it would be simpler to do this, but why do large Intl airlines with shorthaul and longhaul a/c sometimes still won't to have these fleets? Surely it is not good to rely on one manufacture too heavily?

Any ideas?

[Edited 2005-09-20 00:05:26]


I came. I saw. I conquered
22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineLazyshaun From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 549 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5229 times:

Do you think it is so maybe the airline can create a relationship with the manufacture, so maybe get "discount" on certain orders etc, but why don't these airlines do that with both manufactures?


I came. I saw. I conquered
User currently offline797 From Venezuela, joined Aug 2005, 1901 posts, RR: 27
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5225 times:

Well, I'd say that having a fleet of one manufacturer would give them some benefits, like pilot training (in case of Airbus A330-340 / Boeing 737) and probably if airlines are thinking of buying aircraft, they could receive special offers from the manufacturer.

Also, the manteinance can be crucial here.

My thoughts...

Greetz!



Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21562 posts, RR: 59
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5212 times:

But if the manufacturer knows you are with them only, why would you be sure you'd be getting the best deal?

I think it's the manufacturers who want airlines to be all theirs, and not the other way around, but some airlines have been sold on it. which is not to say that given the right offer, they wouldn't buy the other brand if the new model was worth it.

this excludes certain european carriers who will be airbus for political reasons, as well as certain anti-us countries and their flag carriers.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineAlfa75 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 616 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5208 times:

Quoting 797 (Reply 2):
Also, the manteinance can be crucial here

I agree, it is the same reason fleets such as UPS or FedEx try to have all of their trucks the same.



The best things in life aren't things!
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11837 posts, RR: 62
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5203 times:

$$$  Smile

The fewer fleet types you have, the less it costs for:

. Maintenance
. Logistics
. Schedule/Capacity Planning
. Procurement
. Equipment
. Staffing
. Training
. OSO Operations

... among other things


User currently offlineMarshalN From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2005, 1521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5196 times:

How many airlines actually have an all A or B fleet? Let's not count one-type LCCs since we know who they are already. Not a lot come to mind... AA, CO, UA, BA (?).....

User currently offlineACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7643 posts, RR: 35
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5197 times:

Quoting MarshalN (Reply 6):
How many airlines actually have an all A or B fleet? Let's not count one-type LCCs since we know who they are already. Not a lot come to mind... AA, CO, UA, BA (?).....

I was just thinking the same thing. BA does have quite a large fleet of A32X though. IIRC, All Nippon is pretty well an all Boeing fleet at present. Of course there are the obvious such as WN, WS and FR which are all B737 fleets.

[Edited 2005-09-20 00:31:02]


A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
User currently offlineLazyshaun From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 549 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5152 times:

Quote:
How many airlines actually have an all A or B fleet? Let's not count one-type LCCs since we know who they are already

There are a few, EI, TAP, JAL, BMI.

Some airlines I think had only bough Boeing a/c because they were the only manufacturer available. When 'Bus came along their fleets were maybe ageing, and needed renewing. Maybe some airlines only had a case of selling some 70/2/37s, and bus was proving to be good.

Just a thought...



I came. I saw. I conquered
User currently onlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7685 posts, RR: 17
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5151 times:

Quoting MarshalN (Reply 6):
AA, CO, UA, BA (?).....

None of the above. But Qatar Airways (QR) operates a fleet of only Airbus types including all basic types except the A310 and A318.

Air Portugal (TP) is another all Airbus airline operating all types except the A300 and A330.

Malev are a European airline without an Airbus in a fleet comprising B737s, B767s, Fokker 70s and CRJ 200s.

Britannia Airways (now doing business as Thomson Fly) operate a fleet of Boeing 757s and 767s and to the best of my recollection have only otherwise operated the Boeing 737 jet aircraft.

bmi (BD) used to operate mainly B 737s but now have an all-Airbus fleet with the exception of their last two F-100s.

Indian Airlines (IC) have a fleet of A300s and A320s.

Until the very recent delivery of a single A330 KLM (KL) had an all-Boeing fleet if you count their 10 MD-11s as Boeing.

On the other hand neighbouring SN Brussels Airlines have no Boeings in their mainly BAe fleet which also includes three A330s and three A319s.

And I expect there are many more


User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 16
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5090 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 9):
None of the above.

Continental is actually all-Boeing now, having recently retired their last MD-80.



Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineIB787 From Spain, joined Jun 2005, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5068 times:

IB will be soon an all-airbus company with A32X for short-haul and A343/346 for long-haul.

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21562 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5017 times:

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 10):
Continental is actually all-Boeing now, having recently retired their last MD-80.

Yep, since January, and good riddance!

But if Japan were to build a new 150-200 seat plane that blew the socks of the 737NG, CO would buy it.

There is little maintenance benefit if you operate a fleet of 200 A320s and 50 A330s vs. 200 A320s and 50 767s.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlinePilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3151 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4944 times:

True, but pilot transitions will be easier because the logic behind the systems on the various manufacturers is very similiar. Airbus touts this highly as one of their strongpoints.


DMI
User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2975 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4863 times:

NH & JL will be heading to an all-Boeing fleet, but it will still be some years off before NH sheds their A320s & JL their A300s.
With Skymark, Skynet Asia, & AirDo operating Boeing aircraft the only airline in the future that will take-up Airbus aircraft is the up-start Starflyer, which begins service next March with A320s.
Post WW2, Japan has had much tighter ties with the US, and NH & JL maintenance and operational philosophies have adopted US-based designs.


User currently offlineDoona From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 3771 posts, RR: 13
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4840 times:

Quoting Lazyshaun (Reply 8):
JAL

JAL still operates DC-10s, and the domestic side, which used to be Japan Air System, operates 41 MD80/90s, and a number of A300s. But as Carpethead states in the above post, the Japanese main carriers are heaing for all-Boeing. Any idea what NH will get to replace their A320/321s?

Cheers
Mats



Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
User currently offlineLazyshaun From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 549 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4768 times:

BMI have no Fokkers left now, VV701. Plus that 757 doesn't help their all-airbus fleet.
Also LOT are all boeing are they not? Excluding maybe some regional jets.
I think the idea of Airbus small a/c and Boeing heavies or vise versa is a good plan, e.g. Alitalia, BA.



I came. I saw. I conquered
User currently offlinePipoA380 From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 1594 posts, RR: 51
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4755 times:

Quoting 797 (Reply 2):

I fully agree with you.

Other example of all A/B fleet is Swiss (LX). Though having Embraers (that they'll get rid of) and Jumbolinos, LX only have Airbus (319/320/321/330/340). That was part of the Swissair management in the late 90ies, when they started to get rid of their 747s and MD11s later on, which left the fleet lately Sad . Now it's only Airbus and Jumbolinos for their smaller destinations (LCY for instance).

 wave  Philippe



It's not about AIRBUS. it's not about BOEING. It's all about the beauty of FLYING.
User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 857 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4731 times:

SAS have a mix of A/B/MDD n Q400.

Micke//SE  wave 



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineZSOFN From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1413 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4701 times:

SA are an interesting case; only a couple of years after beginning to receive their brand new 738s they sign a complete fleet renewal contract with Airbus. Once completed they'll have A319s, A320s (although I think they might have cancelled these), A342s, A343Es & A346s. They might also order the A380 to replace the B744s on the LHR route that is almost always at full capacity. We should nevertheless see the B744s for a while yet, and the B738s till 2010.

User currently offlineDALMD88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2602 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4618 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 12):
There is little maintenance benefit if you operate a fleet of 200 A320s and 50 A330s vs. 200 A320s and 50 767s

I disagree. There is a lot of commonality between any one manufacturer. All Boeings share a good deal of parts. All Boeing manuals are very similar also. They all share the same culture. I've worked on Douglas products also. They all have a Douglas culture. I bet Airbus has their own culture that runs though the fleet.

As a mechanic switching from one culture to the next is a little jarring. Say you work on B airplanes a lot. You tend to begin to think like B. Your troubleshooting and repair skills get better. Now you get sent to work on a D airplane. What you end up with is a pissed off mechanic because he can't figure out the airplane. All he can think is 'why did D do it this way?'


User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 22
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4558 times:

Ikramerica,

Could you be so kind to name these certain European carriers, aswell as these flag carriers from anti US countrys, that are for the reason you say exclusively Airbus?

Because, if anti US was a motivation not to buy Boeing, only the Brits, Danes, Duth and Italians would have Boeings in their fleet.  Wink

I can only think of one airline that had planned to purchase Boeings but was forced to change their plans and buy Airbus instead. Indeed, ELAL.

Or was it the other way around Big grin



SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
User currently offlineGokmengs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1123 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4511 times:

Because a single manufacturers have commonalities between their types hence it reduces pilot training costs maintanace etc. Unless you are Turkish Airlines and you need to impress both U.S. and the E.U. it makes a great sense to have A/B only fleet. However if you have very complex route map like LH,BA,AF you may need to use both but still try to keep it least types as possibble.


Gercekleri Tarih Yazar Tarihide Galatasaray
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Why Do Airlines Want You To Book Online? posted Fri Aug 8 2003 22:14:27 by Funflyer
Why Do BA Want To Sell DBA To Easyjet? posted Wed Feb 12 2003 18:55:53 by Bmi330
Why Do You Want To Be A Pilot? posted Fri Nov 30 2001 08:20:31 by Jer32382
What Airline Job Do You Want To Have? posted Sun Nov 25 2001 20:40:47 by DeltaBoy777
Why Do Airlines Want Window Shades Open... posted Sun Dec 31 2000 21:23:27 by Scaredflyer21
Why Do Airlines Have To Have Regional Divisions? posted Wed Jul 10 2002 02:50:55 by Airplanetire
Why Do Airlines Have Parent Companies? posted Tue Mar 16 2004 05:46:44 by Nycfuturepilot
Do You Want To Rate The Airlines? posted Tue Mar 4 2003 10:08:43 by Skippy777
Why Do Airlines Have Orient Or Asia Subsidaries? posted Tue Jul 9 2002 04:27:49 by Cmchardyfl
Why Do Airlines Offer Such Odd Routings posted Sat Nov 4 2006 07:17:32 by RJpieces