Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Former Amfa NW Mechs Arrested Blocking Road  
User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3056 times:

Wow, what part of "you lost" do these AMFA mechs not understand? The AMFA mechs voluntarily walked off the job and so they have no voice in impending the Ch11 proceedings with NW. Get over it people - instead of wasting your time picketing go find yourself a new job so your kids can still have clothes to go to school in and food to put on the table for.

http://miva.sctimes.com/miva/cgi-bin/miva?Web/page.mv+1+local+459730

61 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDl757md From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1562 posts, RR: 16
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3023 times:

Quoting AirRyan (Thread starter):
Get over it people

Get over yourself. Why are you so obsessed with this issue which clerly has little if anything to do with you. You're all over every AMFA thread on here saying how much you think these people are idiots. That's fine and certainly within your right. But if some guy wants to waste his time with picketing over what is in your opinion a lost cause....who cares!! Because after all that's his right as well. And while it may not be their right to block traffic, we do have a justice system in place to deal with behavior like that. So I say again...WHO CARES!

Dl757Md



757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2998 times:

Quoting AirRyan (Thread starter):
Wow, what part of "you lost" do these AMFA mechs not understand?

Ummmmmm, call me ignorant but where's it say they were AMFA members? They coulda been scabs out to make a name for themselves.

I can hear is now "Yassuh, massa....I shore likes mah job on this yere plantation. Nawsuh, ah ain't got no rights."


It sounds like a scably thing to do.


User currently offlineB744F From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2991 times:

Damn those AMFA members for trying to use the only power they have to demand wages so they can put food on the table.

User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2979 times:

Quoting B744F (Reply 3):
Damn those AMFA members for trying to use the only power they have to demand wages so they can put food on the table.

All that work around those lovely airplanes, and these guys have the nerve to ask for three hots and a cot? Piss on em....let em eat cake, as the lady said.


User currently offlineAogdesk From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 935 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2967 times:

AirRyan,
Regardless of your views, its called standing up for what you believe in. Countless men and women have done it throughout history, even when faced with riducule, threats and death.
An obvious lack of maturity will prevent you from fully comprehending this issue.


User currently offlineN908AW From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 922 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2938 times:

Quoting Aogdesk (Reply 5):
AirRyan,
Regardless of your views, its called standing up for what you believe in. Countless men and women have done it throughout history, even when faced with riducule, threats and death.
An obvious lack of maturity will prevent you from fully comprehending this issue.

Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that they're idiots for getting themselves arrested and having these show up as misdemeanors on their resume when applying for a new job.  eyebrow 



'Cause you're on ATA again, and on ATA, you're on vacation!
User currently offlineAogdesk From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 935 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2925 times:

Timmy, you're young and impressionable, and hopefully you have an open mind. You missed my point completely; that is that sometimes standing up for what you really believe in means that you may very well face prosecution or persecution. Thats the way its been for thousands of years, and it will continue to be that way. As far as misdemeanors showing up on their resume, consider this: A misdemeanor doesn't mean that you won't get hired. However, when your new aircraft maintenance employer finds out that you were a replacement worker for NW during the strike, that will probably seal your fate. Thats a fact.

User currently offlineN908AW From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 922 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2918 times:

Quoting Aogdesk (Reply 7):
Timmy, you're young and impressionable, and hopefully you have an open mind. You missed my point completely; that is that sometimes standing up for what you really believe in means that you may very well face prosecution or persecution. Thats the way its been for thousands of years, and it will continue to be that way. As far as misdemeanors showing up on their resume, consider this: A misdemeanor doesn't mean that you won't get hired. However, when your new aircraft maintenance employer finds out that you were a replacement worker for NW during the strike, that will probably seal your fate. Thats a fact.

I understand your point. But sooner or later they have to see the undeniable truth that NW more or less gave them virtual pink slips when they walked off the job, as AMFA appears to be out of the ''new'' post-Ch 11 NW. And I suppose it's a point that people who stand up for things like this tend to get persecuted because they believe in it, not because they cause a roadblock.

Edited to add a point and to change metaphoric to virtual.

[Edited 2005-09-20 02:42:31]


'Cause you're on ATA again, and on ATA, you're on vacation!
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13967 posts, RR: 63
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2892 times:

Quoting B744F (Reply 3):
Damn those AMFA members for trying to use the only power they have to demand wages so they can put food on the table.

You have forgotten that there is an obscure clause somewhere in the constitution stating that it is an unalienable right for the great unwashed the fly transcontinental for less than $ 99,- and to receive full service for it.

Jan


User currently offlineN908AW From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 922 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2887 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 9):
You have forgotten that there is an obscure clause somewhere in the constitution stating that it is an unalienable right for the great unwashed the fly transcontinental for less than $ 99,- and to receive full service for it.

Jan

And yet have to pay $600 to fly to DTW.



'Cause you're on ATA again, and on ATA, you're on vacation!
User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2866 times:

Quoting Aogdesk (Reply 7):
Timmy, you're young and impressionable, and hopefully you have an open mind. You missed my point completely; that is that sometimes standing up for what you really believe in means that you may very well face prosecution or persecution. Thats the way its been for thousands of years, and it will continue to be that way. As far as misdemeanors showing up on their resume, consider this: A misdemeanor doesn't mean that you won't get hired. However, when your new aircraft maintenance employer finds out that you were a replacement worker for NW during the strike, that will probably seal your fate. Thats a fact.

I heard this from an old cotton farmer: Truth comes in three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Then, it is violently attacked. Then it becomes self evident.


User currently offlineASFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1168 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2817 times:

Looks like AirRyan lost this thread - do you think he'll take his own advice and go away?

Just FYI - as far as the bankruptcy courts are concerned, AMFA is still the union that represents the mechanics and as much as Steenland wants to be rid of them, and as many times as he says it, it is not so. AMFA still represents the mechanics at NWA. Once the judge rules on what is to be of the mechanics they will then have but one legal choice, to come back and work under whatever rules are passed down to them or stay away and truly sign their pink slips. The SCABS could find themselves on the street.


User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2790 times:

Quoting Dl757md (Reply 1):
But if some guy wants to waste his time with picketing over what is in your opinion a lost cause....who cares!! Because after all that's his right as well. And while it may not be their right to block traffic, we do have a justice system in place to deal with behavior like that. So I say again...WHO CARES!

Our society is too full of bums living off the laurels of someone elses hard work so the last thing we need is recently displaced workers duped by their union into believing they may get their jobs back - AMFA lost this battle a long time ago and Ch11 for NW changes nothing for them.

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 2):
Ummmmmm, call me ignorant but where's it say they were AMFA members? They coulda been scabs out to make a name for themselves.

Or...... they could have been members of the Minnesota Vikings offensive line as they obviously haven't been practicing much these past few weeks and had some free time on their hands!  Smile

Quoting Aogdesk (Reply 5):
Regardless of your views, its called standing up for what you believe in.

But with every debate there comes a time when you no longer have any case and must concede defeat - AMFA lost their disagreement with NW and Ch11 changes nothing for them - if NW had locked out the AMFA mechs than it would be a different story but since the AMFA mechs voluntarily choose to strike, they have no recourse even in BK court.

Drop your AMFA representation and maybe NW will take some of them back for a short period of time but the majority of the mechs need to wake up and realize they will never be going back to work for NW as they used to. How long before it starts getting cold up there and these guys wake up to the reality of the situation? I'm not saying I'm all happy and giddy over these guys losing their jobs but I really can't side with with those that refuse to accept reality.

Quoting Aogdesk (Reply 7):
However, when your new aircraft maintenance employer finds out that you were a replacement worker for NW during the strike, that will probably seal your fate. That's a fact.

A fact? Even IAM would likely take a replacement NW mech because they both had a common disagreement in AMFA. Besides, the replacement mechs have all been or soon will be offered permanent employment with NW so who's really the ones really losing the battle here?

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 12):
Looks like AirRyan lost this thread - do you think he'll take his own advice and go away?

God, Allah or even Buhdda forbid if I'm not out there picketing all day long and actually have a job! The only ones who have lost anything are the AMFA mechs - take it up with your union reps and ask them why you no longer have a paycheck coming in from NW!

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 12):
Just FYI - as far as the bankruptcy courts are concerned, AMFA is still the union that represents the mechanics and as much as Steenland wants to be rid of them, and as many times as he says it, it is not so. AMFA still represents the mechanics at NWA. Once the judge rules on what is to be of the mechanics they will then have but one legal choice, to come back and work under whatever rules are passed down to them or stay away and truly sign their pink slips. The SCABS could find themselves on the street.

Negative: Check your facts or simply just search the forums, that's already been addressed. When the AMFA mechs walked out they lost their right to represent the mechs at NW. On the other hand had NW locked out the AMFA mechs than they'd have a case but since they voluntarily walked out, Steenland neither any BK judge will grant AMFA any right to represent NW mechanics during Ch11 proceedings. If I was a mech represented by AMFA I'd really be looking for some answers - from my union reps.

What irks me most about AMFA is how they duped their constituents as in to believing they could get NW to somehow give them something they no longer had and it is because of these chumps that the pilots now stand a chance to lose their pensions unless Congress passes legislation for all the airlines.

Face it - AMFA at NW is over and it's time to move on - there are no more scabs, just regular NW Mechs who happen to not be represented by AMFA.


User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2761 times:

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 13):
How long before it starts getting cold up there and these guys wake up to the reality of the situation? I'm not saying I'm all happy and giddy over these guys losing their jobs but I really can't side with with those that refuse to accept reality.

Well, if you're not all happy and giddy, why do you keep on coming back to the issue? In short, if you're a mere bystander, what in the hell is AMFA to you or you to it, or you to NW or NW to you? Why do you insist on beating the snot out of AMFA? Why don't you have yourself a "I hate organized labor" website so's you feel justified?



I don't think you have a dog in this fight any more than anyone else unless, as I suspect, you're thinking about scabbing but maybe are trying to justify it in your mind beforehand...

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 13):
Check your facts or simply just search the forums, that's already been addressed. When the AMFA mechs walked out they lost their right to represent the mechs at NW. On the other hand had NW locked out the AMFA mechs than they'd have a case but since they voluntarily walked out, Steenland neither any BK judge will grant AMFA any right to represent NW mechanics during Ch11 proceedings. If I was a mech represented by AMFA I'd really be looking for some answers - from my union reps.

You really don't have a grip. AMFA represents AMFA members. That contract did not go away and does not go away until a BK judge says it goes away...and that's a long way down the road yet. It isn't near as easy as you suppose unless you're living inside the BK judge's head.

I'm glad there are guys like you to guide the rest of us louts out of a sense of civic duty...America is a better place with you in it.


User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2758 times:

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 13):
Face it - AMFA at NW is over and it's time to move on - there are no more scabs, just regular NW Mechs who happen to not be represented by AMFA.

Correct me if I am wrong, but being that both Minnesota and Michigan are not right-to-work states, isn't it a requirement that any mechanics employed by Northwest Airlines in those states (Tennessee, being a right-to-work state, does not apply here) be a member of the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association?



Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineAogdesk From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 935 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2731 times:

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 13):
Negative: Check your facts or simply just search the forums

Since when did the hobbyists on Airliners.net become experts on bankruptcy court proceedings? The FACT is that many lawyers who have been asked about the situation have actually refused to speculate on the final outcome, and some have said outright that even though Steeland has announced his ruling, it may very well not stand up in court. Thats a fact.

AirRyan, the chip on your shoulder grows bigger by the second, please tell us why the vendetta against NW mechanics?

Oh, and why do you feel that you're the authority on when to concede defeat? Perhaps instead of beating us over the head with your tired attitude, you could simply accept the fact that there are different perspectives and opinions here. Every time you spew your negative venom, you chip away at your own credibility. There's not much left, so whats your next reply going to be?


User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2719 times:

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 15):
Quoting AirRyan (Reply 13):
Face it - AMFA at NW is over and it's time to move on - there are no more scabs, just regular NW Mechs who happen to not be represented by AMFA.

Correct me if I am wrong, but being that both Minnesota and Michigan are not right-to-work states, isn't it a requirement that any mechanics employed by Northwest Airlines in those states (Tennessee, being a right-to-work state, does not apply here) be a member of the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association?

We've had this debate in a previous thread as seen below...


How Soon Before Amfa Mechs Back On Job At NW? (by AirRyan Sep 14 2005 in Civil Aviation)

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 7):
Judges can't just order something because they want to. Legal precident is involved, as is the court system. The fundamental problem here is that AMFA walked off the job. Therefore, they would have to convience a judge that a bankrupt airline (which arguably doesn't have the cash to pay them) should be forced to go for a more expensive options (which creditors and management would immediately object too) and allow a workforce (which walked off the job in the first place, helping to trip the BK) back into work (which would have a negative effect on morale).

Can you think of a legal precident for this? I sure can't.

Even if there was some precident or legal logic that allowed this, the union would have to be granted standing in the court (which is arguable, since either no contract is in force between NW and the union itself right now, or the union is in violation of it), be allowed to ask for a motion to force the company to hire someone, not have the creditors object (remember, the creditors can cut anyone off at their knees if they so choose) and have a judge agree that the best interest of the creditors is for them to return.

And then you have to survive a appeal. Not very likely at all.



Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 12):
Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 10):
At this point, with the 30-day cooling off period expired, both sides are able to seek "self-help". In layman's terms, Northwest is free to apply any terms they see fit. If they wanted to impose $5.15 an hour wages on the mechanics, with no benefits whatsoever, they would be perfectly free to do that. That said, the mechanics are also free to walk off the job if they don't like the terms imposed on them, and they obviously took that option.

Actually, not true. A bankrupt company is forbidden from making any new contracts without explicit approval from the judge. Normally one of the first motions is something along the line of a motion to enable the company to use certain cash to pay absolutly critical business proccesses. Larger contracts, including any new union contract would be a long drawn out procedure in the courts.

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 10):

Truth be told, with the employees being taken off the property before the end of their shifts the day before the strike began, a lawyer could make the case that the AMFA employees were locked out of work, rather than striking voluntarily.

I doubt that would fly in any courthouse in the nation. AMFA announced it's intention to strike and made it very very public. northwest's reaction is completly understandable given the knowledge of a hostile workforce about to strike.



Quoting Alphascan (Reply 13):
Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 10):
Truth be told, with the employees being taken off the property before the end of their shifts the day before the strike began, a lawyer could make the case that the AMFA employees were locked out of work, rather than striking voluntarily.

They were free to report for work at their next scheduled shift. No judge would consider that a lock out.



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 14):
Quoting AirRyan (Reply 13):
How long before it starts getting cold up there and these guys wake up to the reality of the situation? I'm not saying I'm all happy and giddy over these guys losing their jobs but I really can't side with with those that refuse to accept reality.

Well, if you're not all happy and giddy, why do you keep on coming back to the issue? In short, if you're a mere bystander, what in the hell is AMFA to you or you to it, or you to NW or NW to you? Why do you insist on beating the snot out of AMFA? Why don't you have yourself a "I hate organized labor" website so's you feel justified?



I don't think you have a dog in this fight any more than anyone else unless, as I suspect, you're thinking about scabbing but maybe are trying to justify it in your mind beforehand...

Let's just say I'm a former avionics tech so I understand the perspective of the aviation mechanic but I can also see the other side of the argument from the perspective of the fiscal realities of operating an airline with some of the highest labor costs in a time when fuel has spike to that three times what it used to be just two years ago.

From what I have seen AMFA lured a lot mechs over from IAM by promising them chimerical delusions of being tough with the management regardless of the realities of the industry and in my opinion that was irresponsible because AMFA could not fulfill on those promises and they knew if push ever came to shove, NW management knew how to "bust" their union as they have shown. I feel that AMFA has disserviced these mechanics and had they stayed under IAM would have been given better advice and we likely would never had even seen a mech strike at NW.


User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12860 posts, RR: 100
Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2717 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 13):
Steenland neither any BK judge will grant AMFA any right to represent NW mechanics during Ch11 proceedings.

Good bad or indifferent this is the case. NW will not concede that the AMFA belongs in the courtroom; thus, unless the AMFA wins a lawsuit to enter NW's CH11, they're locked out. Remember, there is no contract once a strike starts!

Oh, there is some legal room for AMFA to return, but it is FAR from a given. Its also next to impossible at this point for the small stations to be taken back from the outsourced vendors; I'm sure their contacts had CH11 provisions.

Does anyone know if AMFA has filed the required suit to get into the courtroom?

Quote:

The two men arrested were cited for interfering with a lawful order and obstructing traffic.

It sounds like one pair of strikers got too emotional. Judging from the numbers the article implies ("More than a hundred cars") this wasn't replacement mechanics... Its almost as if the AMFA wanted press.

Quoting Aogdesk (Reply 7):
However, when your new aircraft maintenance employer finds out that you were a replacement worker for NW during the strike, that will probably seal your fate. Thats a fact.

??? This might be true in a union shop but isn't in a non-union shop (like ours).

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 13):
What irks me most about AMFA is how they duped their constituents as in to believing they could get NW to somehow give them something they no longer had and it is because of these chumps that the pilots now stand a chance to lose their pensions unless Congress passes legislation for all the airlines.

Valid point. NW was in trouble and the AMFA promised more than anyone could deliver. Now, I understand the counter argument, if I had been in the 53% targeted for layoff, a strike vote would have been a sure thing from me. However, as someone who reads economics as a hobby... The results were a little too obvious. Hopefully some of the pensions can be saved.  pessimist 

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 11):
Truth comes in three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Then, it is violently attacked. Then it becomes self evident.

That is exactly what is happening with the current global economy. People are getting emotional rather than adapting. Oh, we need to force China to float their currency and change a few protectionist laws, but the reality is the world of our parents is no more. My college orientation noted that I should expect to change jobs every five years. The same idea was told to my sister and many of my cousins when they entered college. (Sorry, no link.) The new environment is simple: Continuous improvement or get out of the way.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2706 times:

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 18):
That is exactly what is happening with the current global economy. People are getting emotional rather than adapting. Oh, we need to force China to float their currency and change a few protectionist laws, but the reality is the world of our parents is no more.

Absolutely! ...and this is where I think we all on either side of the NW mechanic/AMFA debate are in agreement but just have different opinions as to how to accomplish our goals of maintaining our (read: USA) place in the present and future global marketplace.


User currently offlineN867BX From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 339 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2692 times:

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 13):
Or...... they could have been members of the Minnesota Vikings offensive line as they obviously haven't been practicing much these past few weeks and had some free time on their hands!

Do you think the Vikings offensive line could done such a good job of blocking traffic?


User currently offlineAogdesk From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 935 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2677 times:

AirRyan, in all of your arguments, you conveniently omit one small but very important detail. I can only assume that you're unaware of the realities of aircraft maintenance, and thereby can't comprehend the gravity of the situation.

Here's an excerpt from the-mechanic.com, (please spare me your opinions on the site itself and focus on this seemingly credible posting:

The labor rate at Timco varies by volume. UAL for example pays around $39 per hour because of such high volume. ABX pays around $44. If you walk in for a one time only job it can be $48 - $50. The reason this is good for the airline is because they only pay for the WORKED time. During the NWA mecahnics slowdown from 1996 - 2005 they paid for hours weather you worked or not, this didn't seem like a good deal for the airlines. Paying $40 per hour for contract labor is a bargin. Quality does suffer. The techs at NWA are very talented as opposed to their TIMCO counterparts but the $$$ saved have significant impact on the bottom line. TIMCO has been positioning themselves to take over line maintenance for the past 2 years. This is an area they didn't do in the past. The industry changed significantly in the past 4 years and you guys were took your eye off the ball. My thought is is every man (women) for themselves.

Quality does suffer. But the almighty dollar prevails. You're ok with that I presume? Doesn't mean a thing does it? Must be yet another disgruntled AMFA idiot. Can't be true. The FAA wouldn't let it be. Airlines would never let that happen. Your response please?


User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2675 times:

Quoting N867BX (Reply 20):
Quoting AirRyan (Reply 13):
Or...... they could have been members of the Minnesota Vikings offensive line as they obviously haven't been practicing much these past few weeks and had some free time on their hands!

Do you think the Vikings offensive line could done such a good job of blocking traffic?

Ha! Not likely - good point!  Smile The Vikings O-Line is the root of all their evils this year and I've never seen such a dissapointing Vikings performance in decades these past two games.

I'd still like to see a Vikings logo on the nose of a NW aircraft similar to that of one of my favorite liveries in Hawaiian Air when they were flying the Oakland Raiders around.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ryan C. Umphrey



User currently offline777Purser From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 219 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2618 times:

Quoting AirRyan (Thread starter):
Wow, what part of "you lost" do these AMFA mechs not understand? The AMFA mechs voluntarily walked off the job and so they have no voice in impending the Ch11 proceedings with NW.

No one wins. NWA management has lost as well... they are bankrupt and unable to work together with their labor groups. Leave it alone already. Your negative remarks and anti labor comments are getting old already.


User currently offlineMxCtrlr From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2485 posts, RR: 35
Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 2593 times:

Also something that no one has picked up on here is that these mechanics are still technically NWA employees. NWA cannot unilaterally fire them - they can replace them - but they cannot fire striking workers. They did not "walk off the job" so to speak, they engaged in a legal job action - at strike - which is not to be confused with "walking off the job". Its a question of semantics, I understand, but it is a fine diferentiation.

National Airlines went through a similar situation in 1969 (and that started as a wildcat walkout by the IAM), fired the striking workers and "moved on". 18 months later, those "fired" workers returned to their jobs, with a new contract in place, because the company did not have the right to fire them, only replace them.

There is precident for AMFA returning to the table under the BK judge's orders. Just because Steenland wants to believe he's rid of AMFA, doesn't make it so.

MxCtrlr  bouncy 



DAMN! This SUCKS! I just had to go to the next higher age bracket in my profile! :-(
25 Boeing757/767 : No matter how you feel about this highly charged issue -- and I happen to agree with the original poster -- the fact is, once you break the law to mak
26 Frequentflyer : They broke the Law. Bad They got arrested. Good They were released. No comment. They now have negative credibility & image. Bad for them, but they cre
27 Post contains links AirRyan : I worked my ass off in the Marines for pennies on the dollars sometimes 80 to 90 hours a week to get our geriatric Vietnam-era helicopters up in the
28 Dougloid : Suggested for deletion.
29 777Purser : I second the motion...
30 Gigneil : No it doesn't, and that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. The scabs are hardworking Americans that appreciate the fact they have a job and
31 Irev210 : Um, average mechanic was making 70k a year. The party at NW has ended. Good ol' B744F, the guy who thinks that every american should make more than 1
32 777Purser : I am with Dougloid. It is not a matter or liking a thread or not, but rather the intention behind it. American Labor has the right to representation
33 AirRyan : My disagreements lies with AMFA in the case of NW as it pertains to the former strike. I disagree with your comments about unions as they are steroty
34 Frequentflyer : No Sir. Illegal events should be highlighted, reported, punished and decried. A bit easy don't you think?! You do not understand unions because you d
35 Supa7e7 : Oh whatever. The outfits that make real money -- Microsoft, Pfizer, Halliburton, Altria, Medtronic -- don't give a rat's patootie about unions. If I
36 777Purser : Out of context. The Industry in discussion is aviation.
37 777Purser : I appreciate you clarifying this to me. Some other prople in this room do seem to be radically anti Labor.
38 Aogdesk : AirRyan, this is nothing short of ludicrous!!! AMFA forced NW to file? You've got a short to ground there my friend. How does it make any sense that
39 Dougloid : Just watch your lungs around Phillip Morris OOPS! Altria.....sounds ever so much nicer than lung cancer and emphysema...
40 Aogdesk : LOL.....Altria....nice example. Of course they wouldn't give a damn about unions. They'd simply hand out boxes of 'product' for everyone and those pes
41 Aa757first : Wouldn't the company be interested in a scab? AAndrew
42 Aogdesk : Aandrew, I guess it makes sense that they would be, but you have to consider that many managers are former mechanics who likely worked for a carrier t
43 Gigneil : I am a well educated individual. I am completely aware of what they do. I am also completely aware that their usefulness expired at the end of the in
44 Aogdesk : Well there you have it folks, time to go home. He's well educated and he's got the definitive answers that defy argument. Is it just me, or can I act
45 777Purser : Ok...lets just wait and see how things unfold at say...Delta. I am interested in knowing what happens to the non union FA's, really, I am curious. I
46 AirRyan : I believe it was MacFarlane himself who right before the deadline to initially strike say that he/they would rather see NW declare bankruptcy than gi
47 Aogdesk : Ooooh......Somebody drank the kool-aid......an open mind is a terrible thing to waste.
48 Aogdesk : So you're going to tell me that everything that i have PERSONALLY seen in this industry lacks credibility? Are you an A&P?
49 777Purser : AAAA-MEN....
50 AndrewUber : Amazing, the diehard union supporters claim that scabs will never find work. They need to check the papers - a TON of "scabs" were just hired by NWA!
51 Dougloid : No two ways about it...a guy I used to know, pretty fair mechanic too and a good worker, scabbed at Alaska when they were having a strike back in the
52 B744F : First of all the average mx person was NOT making 70k a year, that is what they topped out at. Secondly, whats wrong with the idea that everyone shou
53 ExFATboy : Oh, please...this is right up there with the UN's black helicopters. Give me a break. No, what we have is airlines capable of making a profit at thes
54 AirRyan : I'd say it's more like very unlikely - but still possible considering there is no longer any honor in our "honors."
55 Glideslope : Could not agree more.
56 Derik737 : I have to dig through my stuff, but I believe I still have an old document from NWA (about 10 years old) that stated how much each hour of a flight d
57 Post contains images AirRyan : Well lets just say I'm no longer turning wrenches on aircraft anymore if that's what your getting at and since I'd like to keep my job rather than sp
58 Aogdesk : Best regards AirRyan.
59 Post contains images Derik737 : Well if you are going to work for NWA in a non-mechanic position, don't let them know you have an A&P. I know they are now using people from the fina
60 Frequentflyer : Loyalty to what? Sell himself to what? Never forget jobs are on a market. Besides, you present one side of the argument only. It is very easy to reve
61 Aogdesk : It might be understandable for a completely disinterested and uninformed party to take that perspective, but from an insiders understanding of the si
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
NW Mechs (AMFA) To Vote To End Strike posted Tue Dec 13 2005 15:38:19 by LUVRSW
Striking NW Mechs Reject Final Offer posted Fri Dec 30 2005 20:17:50 by TOLtommy
Interesting Perspective From Former Amfa Mechanic posted Fri Nov 25 2005 15:54:38 by KarlB737
NW Mechs Respond First, Reject Arbitration posted Tue Jul 19 2005 03:33:46 by TOLtommy
NW Mechs Offer To Take 16% Paycut posted Mon Jun 27 2005 17:18:48 by TOLtommy
How Soon Before Amfa Mechs Back On Job At NW? posted Wed Sep 14 2005 23:43:24 by AirRyan
What If: NW, AMFA, And CHAOS... posted Mon Aug 14 2006 07:34:06 by SHUPirate1
NW Amfa To Vote On Offer! posted Sat Oct 15 2005 06:25:06 by SHUPirate1
Former Union Leader Crosses NWA Mechs' Picket Line posted Thu Sep 22 2005 19:32:10 by Jano
Strategies For NW Amfa To Win posted Fri Aug 26 2005 03:22:33 by FlyHoss