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Midwest Parks MD-81s!  
User currently offlineSkyexramper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7105 times:

To: All Midwest and Skyway Airlines Employees
Date: September 21, 2005
From: Scott Dickson
Subject: Upcoming Fleet Change

As part of our ongoing efforts to operate as efficiently and productively as possible, we are planning a change to our MD-80 fleet. Beginning in mid-December, we will be removing our three MD-81 aircraft --which are configured for Signature Service with 116 seats -- from scheduled service. We will be retaining one of the MD-81s as a system spare and have yet to decide the future of the other two. With fuel prices at near-record high levels, these aircraft are the least fuel-efficient in our fleet, based on the number of seats they carry.

To replace the flying done by the MD-80s, we will be using the new Boeing 717 aircraft that we will receive in December and the 717 available due to our suspension of service to New Orleans. This will result in several scheduling changes, including: Transitioning all Midwest Airlines service between Milwaukee and the East Coast to Boeing 717 aircraft. Changing our San Francisco service from Signature to Saver Service, including San Francisco-Kansas City and the continuing same-plane service to Milwaukee. This move also introduces Saver Service to Kansas City.

Our Boeing 717s burn about 350 gallons less fuel per hour than the MD-81s, making them a more fuel-efficient choice. Additionally, the MD-81s are much more maintenance-intensive than the 717s. We expect the switch will save several million dollars annually.

Although the transition to smaller aircraft on some routes will result in a slight overall capacity reduction, we are pleased to be able to maintain our presence and frequency in all of our current markets. We also expect to benefit from an improved ability to yield manage seats on those routes.

Please note that this decision does not impact the eight MD-82 and MD-88 aircraft in our fleet, which are Saver Service aircraft with 143 or 147 seats. With more seats, per-seat fuel use on those aircraft is at an acceptable level.

41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTWA902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3122 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6949 times:

I think the newsletter fails to mention something sort of obvious - the signature service is failing - people need cheaper tickets - not hot meals and big seats out of kansas city. If the 116 'business' seats brought in as much money (which theyre supposed to - at least) as the 143/147 seat planes - then there wouldnt be a problem. I see this as them saying ' our signature product is failing - people arent buying and arent paying enough' it would work if signature seats cost more than saver seats, but i guess in order to fill them YX is making them cheaper - and so 143 seats for less money make more money than the 116 seats.

'902



life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
User currently offlineSkyexRamper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 6789 times:

Yep...90% of people just want a ride to a city and maybe the usual can of soda and very light snack. The era of luxury travel for the average person is over. I just don't see why YX doesn't just convert all MD-80s to Saver Service.

User currently offlineIRelayer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 1073 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 6740 times:

Kind of sad too because I've heard the Signature Service is pretty awesome!. Why not just install a two-class on all the aircraft...say 10/100 Signature/Saver. It would be like AirTran/Spirit business class...

-IR


User currently offlineSkyexRamper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 6596 times:

Quoting IRelayer (Reply 3):

Because Midwest offers only first class service no matter what seat you have.


User currently offlineBlsbls99 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 345 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 6525 times:

So, maybe their service levels stay the same, they just change their cabin configuration, so there is an upgraded cabin that offers better seat pitch (similar to business or first class on other carriers) and then a standard cabin (which would be equivalent to economy or economy plus on other carriers).


319 320 313 722 732 733 735 73G 738 739 742 752 763 772 CRJ D9S ERJ EMB L10 M88 M90 SF3 AT4
User currently offlineCOEWR From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 273 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 6497 times:

Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 4):
Because Midwest offers only first class service no matter what seat you have.

unless its a saver service plane.

-C


User currently offlineSkyexRamper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 6402 times:

Quoting COEWR (Reply 6):

No, the service (not seating) is still "first class" doesn't matter what seat you're in whether its leather or cloth.


User currently offlineAirWillie6475 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2448 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 6370 times:

Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 4):
Because Midwest offers only first class service no matter what seat you have.

I find this hard to believe. I just checked prices from LAX to MCI and it was 200 R/T on the 717 which has 88 seats. How does Midwest make any money?


User currently offlineGRRTVC From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 275 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 6269 times:

Surprised no one has started floating the FL/YX rumor again considering that YX will now be an all B712 operator.

I'm not suggesting it start!!!

GRRTVC


User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 6238 times:

Quoting GRRTVC (Reply 9):
Surprised no one has started floating the FL/YX rumor again considering that YX will now be an all B712 operator.

The MD-80 is not quite done @ YX:

Quoting Skyexramper (Thread starter):

Please note that this decision does not impact the eight MD-82 and MD-88 aircraft in our fleet, which are Saver Service aircraft with 143 or 147 seats. With more seats, per-seat fuel use on those aircraft is at an acceptable level.

I almost wonder if it would be worth acquiring some MD-90s to replace the MD-80 fleet or perhaps maybe pick up a few more MD-88s or maybe if they can find any, MD-87s.


User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6098 posts, RR: 23
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 6217 times:

So what are YX MD-81's that fly SFO-MCI configured to? And they will be what? Why not just fly the 717 on MCI-SFO?

ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineFlashmeister From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2900 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 6212 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Suggest that the title be changed to exactly what the press release says. This is Midwest parking MD-81s, not MD-82 or MD-88 aircraft. Misleading.

User currently offlineSideflare75 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 613 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 6180 times:

Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 2):
I just don't see why YX doesn't just convert all MD-80s to Saver Service.

After this they will be. Not counting the two charter 80's. That's the point.

Quoting AS739X (Reply 11):
So what are YX MD-81's that fly SFO-MCI configured to? And they will be what?

Answer:

Quoting Skyexramper (Thread starter):
Changing our San Francisco service from Signature to Saver Service, including San Francisco-Kansas City and the continuing same-plane service to Milwaukee.


User currently offlineGEG2RAP From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 848 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 6075 times:

Quoting COEWR (Reply 6):
Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 4):
Because Midwest offers only first class service no matter what seat you have.

unless its a saver service plane.

I would disagree, even on the MKE-TPA runs in saver YX offers far superior service to the NW/DL/UA option.
Hope this all works out the YX service is much enjoyed in MSP


User currently offlineJBo From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 2313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5998 times:

*sigh* You people like TWA902fly certainly come off with a rather narrowminded perspective on the YX signature service.

Does the history of YX need to be brought up again? The airline used to have ONLY the signature service fleetwide. And, believe it or not, it actually generated profit!! *gasp!*

Yes, the travel climate has changed. Yes, there's more leisure travel than business travel now, but you know what? That's not what's hurting YX so much as the two following words:

*FUEL PRICES*

Seriously...it seems like all the people who are naysaying the YX Signature service saying it's failing and all this stuff almost always credit the changing market climate as the underlying factor without giving a second look to the price of fuel.

If fuel prices were where they were a couple years ago, Midwest - and many other airlines - would be faring MUCH better in the overall economic climate.

Not that the shift in the travel market has nothing to do with it - it does, but it's not nearly as huge as a factor as some of the A.net armchair CEOs make it out to be.

Why should Midwest get rid of the service that made its success? Fuel prices will hopefully not stay this high forever. It's bound to change one way or another eventually. Can one not be optimistic rather than pessimistic?

For that matter, the economy is bound to change course as well. This all comes in cycles...anyone whose taken a basic economics class knows this.

The MD-81s could possibly return to service sometime in the future. Nothing is impossible, remember that.

Furthermore, I think that Midwest has guts by doing what they can to maintain their trademark service - which, I hate to tell you, even the "average Joe" traveler notices more often than not the difference in service - instead of conforming to what everyone thinks they should do.

Follow your own road.

I grow tired of ignorant naysayers who think they know what's right for a company without looking at the entire picture rather than just a few aspects, or see things in black and white rather than seeing a middle road.

OK, rant over...I now return you to your regularly scheduled doldrums.



I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
User currently offlineLGA777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1147 posts, RR: 19
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5732 times:

If NW has to downsize the MKE Focus City could be a victim, while this would help YX I would think they would want to have more capacity, not less ?

LGA777


User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22737 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5536 times:

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 10):
I almost wonder if it would be worth acquiring some MD-90s

Might DL be selling?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineTWA902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3122 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5436 times:

Quoting JBo (Reply 15):
*sigh* You people like TWA902fly certainly come off with a rather narrowminded perspective on the YX signature service.

Does the history of YX need to be brought up again? The airline used to have ONLY the signature service fleetwide. And, believe it or not, it actually generated profit!! *gasp!*

Hey im not being narrowminded - dont directly insult people until you know completely what they think. I think the signature service was a good idea - until it started losing money. It is losing money for the same reasons as everyone else - competition/overcapacity/fuel prices. NW is doing damage in MKE - this is one example of it. Signature Service was a good idea when people had money - people dont have as much money to spend these days. Especially out of Kansas City - where Southwest has a presence. Businesses (which 'signature service' is targeted to) dont want to pay them for it anymore. also i think they should have stuck to one product - signature or saver - i think for an airline as small as them it confused their small customer base - and they were dissapointed. I know people who drive frmo chicago to milwaukee to fly their signature service - except it doesnt exist mostly anymore. Theres no signature service demand out of second hand US cities such as Milwaukee, Omaha and Kansas City. Even Legend couldn't make it work at Dallas - and Dallas is a much more business-filled city than MKE OMA MCI - i think the new generation of business only airlines is being catered to very well by United p.s. and the London-NYC start-ups. We will see how those turn out. I think any business class demand is provided for in the markets mentioned (MCI MKE OMA) by larger, older airlines, which have and will have a dedicated customer base. So no i didn't give up on the signature service before giving it a chance - i used logical reasoning - if there are no airlines in areas like Chicago, Houston, Los Angeles, Bay Area which are all business, and the previous example (Legend) failed - i dont really see how YX excepts to play the game in this day in age flying their business-class-first-class-service-only jets out of MKE and MCI. Theres no demand - at least they are adapting to what people need - a cheap seat from A to B. They serve the MKE market well - but until recently they were the only airline with a large presense there - and not everyone flying out of MKE needed or could pay for a business class seat.

'902



life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
User currently offlineLonghaulheavy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 402 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5270 times:

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 18):
Signature Service was a good idea when people had money - people dont have as much money to spend these days.

 scratchchin 


User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6098 posts, RR: 23
Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5231 times:

Sideflare, I dont know jack about Signature and Savor, thats why Im asking!

ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineFlyXJT From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 129 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5086 times:

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 18):
Even Legend couldn't make it work at Dallas

The biggest reason that Legend didn't survive is they barely had enough money to run a start-up in the first place. It always takes a few months before new airlines start carrying profitable loads, and with the constant legal battles with AA surrounding DAL and the Wright, they lost all the money they had that could have absorbed the first few months.

Another reason is that many many larger companies have contracts with airlines (AA wouldn't run a 777 into RDU just for the hell of it), and in Dallas DL and AA both had sizable operations, and held a majority of the contracts. MKE, on the other hand, was falling by the wayside as airlines lost interest, so when YX moved into town, the business traveler now had more non-stop choices whenever, and companies started lining up to use YX to send their employees from point A to point B.

The model worked when passengers and companies had enough money that service was something you shopped for. Now and days with gas and jet fuel being so high, and no recent COLA adjustments for the majority, the economy is in the dumps and the airlines are feeling it hard.

It shouldn't cost less to fly from Milwaukee to Orlando than to drive from here to there but, lately it has been.

Who woulda ever thought it would be cheaper to take an airbus than a greyhound bus?


pw


User currently offlineBR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4851 times:

Quoting GRRTVC (Reply 9):
Surprised no one has started floating the FL/YX rumor again considering that YX will now be an all B712 operator.

Now see what you done done? I heard that the FL/ yx is circulating the halls at AirTran... They may absorb YX and make a MKE crew base, which is what one of the FL F/As have told me


User currently offlineSideflare75 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 613 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4589 times:

Quoting AS739X (Reply 20):
Sideflare, I dont know jack about Signature and Savor, thats why Im asking!

That's why I was showing you the answer to your question. Didn't mean to offend.


User currently offlineSideflare75 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 613 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 4454 times:

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 18):
NW is doing damage in MKE - this is one example of it.

I don't think this decision has anything to do with NW. They are not really hurting YX at all. Market share has been increasing in MKE steadily and NW has been going down even with their increased flights. Here are the results from June as posted by Knope2001 on the Yahoo message board:

"MKE numbers for June are out, and the results follow the pattern of prior months. Midwest has a significant year-over-year market share gain at the expense of nearly all other carriers:"

……. 2004 ….. 2005 …..
YX … 38.8 ….. 46.5 … + 7.7
NW ... 22.1 ….. 21.2 ….. -0.9
DL ….. 8.8 ….... 6.7 ….. -2.1
UA ….. 6.4 ….... 5.6 ….. -0.8
AA ….. 4.8 ….... 4.9 … + 0.1
CO ….. 3.7 ….... 3.8 … + 0.1
FL …... 5.5 ….... 3.8 ….. -1.7
US ….. 3.3 ….... 3.3 ….. ..0.0
F9 …... 2.1 ….... 2.0 ….. -0.1
HP ….. 2.2 ….... 1.9 ….. -0.3
AC ….. 0.6 ….... 0.3 ….. -0.2
TZ …... 1.5 ….... 0.0 ….. -1.5

That clearly shows that NW is not the reason. I feel the reason is just a cost issue. Nothing more than that. The signature 80's only fly to 4 places from MKE and the flights will still be signature just on 717's. Yes we lose a few seats but if it saves money then it must be done. Can't wait around and hope it improves.

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 18):
i think for an airline as small as them it confused their small customer base - and they were dissapointed. I know people who drive frmo chicago to milwaukee to fly their signature service - except it doesnt exist mostly anymore.

Doesn't look like 46% of the people flying from MKE in June were confused. I don't see why it's so confusing. As for Signature not existing anymore, we have 27 planes in Signature configuration and only 8 in Saver. That's a pretty big difference.


25 Skyexramper : I don't even want to hear about FL and YX and merger in the same sentence ever again.
26 Bruce : What are the registrations of these aircraft? bruce
27 Sideflare75 : N806/807/813ME.
28 Sideflare75 : Sorry I should have said that these may not be the planes leaving. They may decide to keep one or two of these and park some of the others, then just
29 Access-Air : I'll give you all the two magic words that other than rising fuel costs that are killing airlines....ready? You wont belive this....Ok its... INTERNET
30 D950 : Probably not, but SAS is. Also the ex Southeast MD88's are still parked with relatively low hours The title is Midwest parks MD81's, what's the issue
31 Post contains images PHLBOS : The title originally read, Midwest Parks MD-80s. Kudos to Skyexramper for making the correction.
32 RJNUT : Right on Access Air... The internet is ALL ABOUT selling down...!!!!!
33 Tango-Bravo : How so? Did the paragraph below appear in the Midwest press release, or is it just my imagination... (boldface added)
34 Bruce : Well in the memo above Scott Dickson says they are parking their 3 116-seat planes..so you are saying that 806/807/813 are the only signitature servi
35 Srbmod : Considering how small the fleet is, and the fact that DL is planning to retire 4 a/c types (762, 732?, 733?, MD-90?) in the near future, those a/c co
36 Sideflare75 : Yes those three are the signature service 80's, but what I was trying to add was they could keep two of those and park two others. It wouldn't take l
37 FutureFO : Can't park 804/805 as those are the charter birds for KC and MKE sports teams. Sean from MCO and IND
38 Boeing7E7 : They only have to sell 46 of those 88 seats to turn a profit. That's why they are successful.
39 Sideflare75 : Actually I've heard it mentioned that those two might be the candidates. I don't know the reason but I do remember hearing that somewhere along the l
40 Post contains images BR715-A1-30 : Ok, Let me fix that then. 1. I heard from an FL employee that something is going to happen. 2. Apparently YX may be absorbed. There ya are... 2 sente
41 Post contains links and images LGA777 : I would hope of the three -81's they plan to park they would keep 813 as the spare as this is still the only MD81/82/88 they ever got painted in the f
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