AirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 7141 times:
In conjunction with outsourcing FA's as well, this is all part of a plan that will bring NW back into profitability. I honestly don't know how much lower one can go when they are already only making $19.5k a year, but NW's fuel costs have only been surpassed by their labor costs so something has to give. I was impressed with how professional and courteous the FA's were on my last NW DC9 flight just over a week ago.
Quote: Northwest Airlines, flying while in bankruptcy, wants to position itself to outsource all flight attendant jobs on international flights, as well as all attendant jobs on planes with 100 or fewer seats.
STLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9682 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 7083 times:
Quoting AirRyan (Reply 4): I honestly don't know how much lower one can go when they are already only making $19.5k a year,
That's $15,210 a year if wages are reduced by 22%.
Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 2): Quoting Tjwgrr (Reply 1):
Does this mean flight schedule changes and curtailments are imminent too?
In a big way. NWA is about to shrink right before our eyes.
Not if they're outsourcing flight attendants. But Things are about to get
-real- ugly with this airline. I don't think it's a matter of Northwest shrinking, I think it's a matter of time before the employees decide to simultaneously walk out.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
Okie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3378 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 7031 times:
Outsourcing F/A's has been the galley rumor over at AA as well.
Looks like NW is doing anything it can to relieve itself of unions.
First Mx, then F/A's, that means the pilots next and then of course the passengers.
I am sure NW will use the Bankruptcy to help on all fronts.
I have said before it is going to get real ugly at NW and will continue to do so until the passengers leave in droves.
Jblake1 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 293 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 7035 times:
I'm all for restructuring where it makes logical sense; but outsourcing flight attendants? Is my favorite airline going to turn into a shell of its former self? Is NWA going to outsource practically every non-management job at the company?
Pretty soon NWA will be a marketing company with contracts with other companies that when pieced together form some semblance of an airline. Sheesh!!!
As a customer, I do NOT want outsourced flight attendants, maintenance, or pilots.
There are recent media reports that suggest that NWA is working toward outsourcing flight attendants on international flights and those flights that operate with less than 100 seats.
I am strongly against the outsourcing of any member of the flight crew to outside companies/countries. One of the reasons I fly NWA is the service and safety I receive from your current employees. I understand the need to restructure; but this makes no sense.
If NWA does proceed with such an action, I will strongly consider outsourcing my travel plans and business to another airline.
Like you, I used to fly almost exclusively on NWA. Plat Elite at one point. But I've come to value price and reliability over any particular carrier. NW gets the bulk of my travel today, I'm still a gold elite, like you. But they only get it when they best suit my needs, and the needs of my customers, who ultimately pay the bill. As someone who provides outsourcing solutions to a major industry, I have no problem with NWA's plan to outsource. It'll give them the flexibility to respond to market trends, and to have a much better control of labor costs. As long as safety is never compromised, it's a win for the customer, and will probably have me onboard more often. My experiences during the mechanics "strike" are that the true professionals in the industry wil never let safety be compromised on an aircraft they are responsible for, whether they are a NWA employee, or 3rd party vendor responsible for the A/C.
Nwajetset From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 139 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6495 times:
My experiences during the mechanics "strike" are that the true professionals in the industry wil never let safety be compromised on an aircraft they are responsible for, whether they are a NWA employee, or 3rd party vendor responsible for the A/C.
Really? Is this why they are currently being investigated by the FAA? Is this why there have been more emergency landings in the past month and a half than there were all year prior to the strike? News flash from the front-the mentality here is to run with the cheap labor for all it's worth, and deal with the subsequent disasters later. I'm not saying that the current individuals would intentionally do any harm, but the vast majority of them are utterly and dangerously under qualified. The current administration could care less.
I hope you have a better day tomorrow.
And I hope you will get a clue tomorrow. Your response is so typical of an outsider. Maybe you're not familiar with the American work ethic (or lack thereof as of late). If you feel that turning NWA in to a garage sale, and approve of all of this, you completely deserve the service you are sure to receive in the not so distant future.
JAFA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 782 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6399 times:
Flight attendant costs are not what is putting NWA in bankruptcy! We are some of the most productive FA's in the industry, we are already working with a skeleton crew, and we are about to take a paycut. And we don't really make that much money in the grand scheme of things. We recently tabulated that ONE bonus, of ONE executive could pay 100 flight attendants for one year.
TOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3331 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6139 times:
Quoting Nwajetset (Reply 16): Really? Is this why they are currently being investigated by the FAA? Is this why there have been more emergency landings in the past month and a half than there were all year prior to the strike?
Yeah, then explain the nosegear collapse at Guam BEFORE the strike! Those darn 747-200's get so nose heavy! The FAA investigation, from everything I've seen so far is simply political, led by the big labor liberals. If there was any truth to the rumors, we would've heard more by now. Sorry, but that dog just won't hunt.
StevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6062 times:
Quoting STLGph (Reply 22): Yes but Flight Attendants are a variable cost. Jet fuel and the cost of planes are a fixed cost. Welcome to macroeconomics.
Hmmm...I have to disagree with you, here. First of all, it's much closer to micro/managerial economics, for starters. We're dealing with costs that pertain to a specific entity, not at the economy level. Macroeconomics deals with subjects like monetary policy, GDP, international trade, etc. etc.
Flight attendants (labor cost) is a fixed cost. Each flight you operate has to have a minimum number of flight attendants...that's part of the fixed cost to operate the flight, and at the airline overall. Some attendants make more than others, but it's still considered a "fixed cost".
Jet fuel, I would argue is a "mixed cost"...you need it to operate a flight which makes it a fixed cost, but it's also highly variable and out of the control of the airline. In the end, it's "mixed".
Cost of planes are indeed a fixed cost. Whether you buy it outright, or have a monthly lease payment(s), it's fixed.
KLMCedric From Belgium, joined Dec 2003, 812 posts, RR: 21
Reply 24, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5948 times:
Could one of you american members give me a bit more info on how easy
and cheap it seems to lay off people in american corporations.
I mean, on this side of the pond, it costs fortunes to fire employees
with decades of seniority.
Do people in the states receive a large amount of money when they are
fired for reasons other then serious mistakes on their behalf??
I'm eager to find out about this matter.
Maybe this should be in Non-av but I'm sure a short explanation could fit very
well in this topic.
: And I'd say even more for Cathay. I have had just superb service from their Filipino/Indonesian/Thai/Malaysian/Korean crews.
: In the USA management always gets the diamond mine.....and the employees get the shaft!
: Are the 1,400 F/A's being furloughed or is NWA permanently doing away with those positions ?
: Not exactly, no. It is not strictly limited to montary policy. So, not exactly, no. It's not fixed if you disband the union. A la Northwest. The fixe
: But you still need flight attendants to operate a flight...so it IS a fixed cost. The overall cost would go down, but it's still a fixed part of oper
: fixed up until minimum wage as set by the government. variable anything over that amount.
: It's the main difference between a Capitalist system and a Socialist system. When American's talk about freedom, what they're really talking about is
: Thank you Cdgdtw, I was about to zing this guy myself, but you did a fine job. Welcome to my RR list, by the way. I do hope that NWA doesn't outsourc
: Very easy. Corporations get a pat on the back when they do it, too. You know, because we are a capitalist nation, which apparently means we can deval
: Courtesy: KSTP-TV Video Report: http://kstp.dayport.com/viewer/viewerpage.php?Art_ID=163030
: I don't know if this is racist or just an idiotic statement. Source...? What a lame metaphor
: I said it in the Delta thread and I'll say it again.... um why? These cutbacks and more are expected....part of the process of entering bankruptcy pro
: Very easy, with the massive amounts of people, immigrants and anyone else willing to work for less, and Unions having bad stigma by your average work
: What a lame post. Thaks for your insightful original comments.
: i just did a really really really really -really- long paper on this. the minimum wage is the fixed cost.