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DL Adds More CRJ Service: Why?  
User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 4390 times:

Ok, Dl is adding service out of ATL and SLC using CRJ's again. I thought that CRJ operational costs were adding to the problems at DL, now they are adding more? This does not make sense to me, especially with the airline now in CH 11. Can someone explain?


One Nation Under God
22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3581 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 4282 times:

Under terms of the GE financing they received last fall, they were required to take delivery of a bunch of CRJs (I think 27 IIRC). Since GE was part of the DIP financing they just received, they are probably still required to take these jets.

User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6506 posts, RR: 24
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 4243 times:

In some markets, where yields are higher, the CRJ might still make sense. For example, DL is adding SGF-ATL. Yields on this route will likely be pretty good since there are no LCC's. Of course, DL is putting CRJ's on BWI-BOS up against Airtran and I don't think that will work. However, I don't think DL really expects to make money on this route, rather they are just trying to weaken Airtran.

Out of SLC, I don't see DL adding a lot of CRJ's....most of the new routes being launched are either E170 or 738.


User currently offlineDAL767400ER From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 5721 posts, RR: 46
Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week ago) and read 4090 times:

DL isn't adding any CRJ service at all. They are merely relocating them from other markets where they are made abundant and put them in new markets where they are good and appropriate, like the mention SGF sample. Not to mention that with data we have at hand for now, CRJ flight cuts outnumber CRJ additions by about 5:1 with all the cuts from Florida and CVG.

User currently offlineN839MH From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 366 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3923 times:

The miserable RJ's are coming back to DFW!

1 ASA and 3 Comair!



Solodude!
User currently offlineAV8AJET From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1313 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3889 times:

Quoting N839MH (Reply 4):
The miserable RJ's are coming back to DFW!

1 ASA and 3 Comair!

Aren't you a bundle of joy...fact is would you rather have no service than RJ's? You can't have it all! Grow up.



"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
User currently offlineN839mh From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 366 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3833 times:

Actually I would rather not have the RJ's because that way
we wouldn't have to hear the customers complain how awfull
they are....and then guess what...they begin to fly other airlines
who offer mainline jets rather than the Replacement Jet.

Do you think the customers are all children...grow up buddy!
Just listen to people who are 6' or taller having to get into
one of these barbie jets...I agree with them. 2, 3+ hours in
one of those. Yeah right!

But thanks for the comments!



Solodude!
User currently offlineN839MH From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 366 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3827 times:

OH...I should have known..AV8AJET, your one of those barbie drivers.

That explains the attitude...you sounded like a pilot, and your bio states you
are one....should have guessed that one a mile away!

But to be fair, would you rather be flying your barbie jet or a Boeing or Airbus Jet? I bet the pay is a bit different also!



Solodude!
User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3821 times:

Quoting AV8AJET (Reply 5):
Aren't you a bundle of joy...fact is would you rather have no service than RJ's? You can't have it all! Grow up.

Well, fortunately for DFW pax there are lots of other choices. Guess what, you can fly another airline, AND "have it all". If you wanted to fly to the northeast/midwest on skyteam from DFW you could always fly a comfortable A319 to DTW on NW, or a 735 to EWR on CO. If I were a DFW pax, I'd have to be pretty darn loyal to DL to fly a CRJ to CVG to get anywhere. Heck, even taking COex to CLE would be better, since the ERJ is more comfortable than those god awful CRJ's. Methinks that the pax on the DL CRJ's at DFW will be a lot of DL passengers headed to DFW as a destination, rather than DFW originating pax.

No one needs to "grow up." The CRJ is an uncomfortable plane, and there are plenty of better choices at DFW, even within skyteam.



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineAV8AJET From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1313 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3680 times:

Yes I do fly the RJ, but there are plenty of people around the country that welcome us to their homes. Places where "big" jets can not operate because they themselves are to big to fill. Without us they would not have any service at all! Now yes DFW is different and having been based their yes you do have choices. But for the flight times from DFW-CVG or SLC I don't see that they are "SO MISERABLE/UNCOMFORTABLE." Having talked to many passengers over the years business and pleasure, they enjoy the RJ flights because they get on the aircraft fast and leave fast. It's not the perfect jet but I'm here to tell you that they are not going away anytime soon. Personally a flight on a 757, A320 or 737 middle seat is MISERABLE for a 4 hour flight! So don't tell me it's just the RJ's!!! Yes I said grow up and I meant it, get a life!


"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3622 times:

Quoting AV8AJET (Reply 9):
Places where "big" jets can not operate because they themselves are to big to fill.

DFW is certainly not one of those places.

Quoting AV8AJET (Reply 9):
But for the flight times from DFW-CVG or SLC I don't see that they are "SO MISERABLE/UNCOMFORTABLE."

The window seat on a CRJ/CR7 is death. The fusalage cuts well into the legroom. I once flew a CR7 SLC-OKC, had a window seat, and a person next to me. It was torture. SLC-DFW is a slightly longer flight than this.

Quoting AV8AJET (Reply 9):
It's not the perfect jet but I'm here to tell you that they are not going away anytime soon.

If Independence (likely) or DL (much less likely), or both, liquidate, you'll be able to by a CRJ at Big Lots for $19.99

Quoting AV8AJET (Reply 9):
Personally a flight on a 757, A320 or 737 middle seat is MISERABLE for a 4 hour flight!

A misery that is only eclipsed by sitting in the window seat of a CRJ.

Quoting AV8AJET (Reply 9):
So don't tell me it's just the RJ's!!! Yes I said grow up and I meant it, get a life!

The vast majority of people I talk to, and people here on this website, agree with me when i say that the CRJ is one of the most uncomfortable planes in the air, eclipsed only by the small props. CRJ's do have their place, but a 2+ hour flight should not be one of them.

Also, why would I choose the most uncomfortable option from DFW when every other option is a lot more comfortable?



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineAV8AJET From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1313 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (8 years 7 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3549 times:

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 10):
If Independence (likely) or DL (much less likely), or both, liquidate, you'll be able to by a CRJ at Big Lots for $19.99

How do you figure...show me today where there is a fleet of RJ's laying around in a desert...hmmm can you? They would be purchased right away.

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 10):
Quoting AV8AJET (Reply 9):
Personally a flight on a 757, A320 or 737 middle seat is MISERABLE for a 4 hour flight!

A misery that is only eclipsed by sitting in the window seat of a CRJ.

What are you talking about? You simply cannot tell me that a MIDDLE seat is more comfortable than an aisle or even a window seat on an RJ! Sorry

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 10):
The vast majority of people I talk to, and people here on this website, agree with me when i say that the CRJ is one of the most uncomfortable planes in the air, eclipsed only by the small props. CRJ's do have their place, but a 2+ hour flight should not be one of them.

Well I guarantee that I speak and deal with passengers on a daily basis more than you. So what you want is to limit RJ's to flights of 2 hours or less...well lets then replace all mainline flights less than 2 hours with RJ's to free up all those mailine airplanes to fly all routes over 2 hours, come on that's ridiculous! Without some 2+ hour flights on RJ's there would be a lot of connection opportunities that are lost, (some routes just cannot support mainline flights). You can connect 5 times to fly in the middle seat of mainline or once if you "suffer" on a RJ. Now that sounds like torture to me.



"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3473 times:

Quoting AV8AJET (Reply 11):
some routes just cannot support mainline flights

You are exactly right. However, we are not talking about CVG-SBN here, we are talking about DFW. DFW has plenty of mainline service to tons of destinations. Why fly an RJ if you don't have to? The addition of RJ's into DFW has proven that DL has finally lost the battle at DFW. People would rather fly Non-stop on AA than connect on DL.

I still believe the middle seat on a A32X, 7X7, MD-80 is better than the window seat on a CRJ. There no legroom and the windows are down around your stomach.

Quoting AV8AJET (Reply 11):
They would be purchased right away.

OK, fair enough. All I need to know is exactly who you percieve as an airline that would quickly buy all of Indy's displaced CRJ's? DL has already stated that part of their reorganization would be to cut some OH CRJ capacity.



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineSpeedbird19 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 449 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3462 times:

Quoting N839MH (Reply 4):
The miserable RJ's are coming back to DFW!

RJ's and CRJ's are wicked! I've flown on them and they're nippy little things!!! Big grin



Planeprincess
User currently offlineAkjetBlue From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 790 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3362 times:

it seems that DL is moving some RJs to the west and away from the already crowded ATL with their some 4000 flights it's a wise move.

Word on the street is that DL is looking to sell or unload some 60 RJs owned by OH. Right now is the worst time to do it as the market is getting flooded with used RJs for sale.



Save a horse! Ride a Cowboy!
User currently offlineLooschlomph From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 5 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3291 times:

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 12):
OK, fair enough. All I need to know is exactly who you percieve as an airline that would quickly buy all of Indy's displaced CRJ's?

SkyWest has already bought some of their RJs.


User currently offlineCOERJ145 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1421 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3275 times:

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 8):
I'd have to be pretty darn loyal to DL to fly a CRJ to CVG to get anywhere. Heck, even taking COex to CLE would be better, since the ERJ is more comfortable than those god awful CRJ's

I'd take a CRJ to CVG, or even SLC over a 737-800(except a 737-200). COEX ERJ's are nice as well, i could do a 3hr 30min flight in an ERJ.


User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3251 times:

Quoting Looschlomph (Reply 15):
SkyWest has already bought some of their RJs.

A fee for departure regional who currently runs flights for two carriers in bankruptcy. Clearly Skywest makes sure their costs are covered.

Even though Skywest has abought a few, they are not in position to buy all of them. I don't see DL or UA needing any more CRJ capacity (DL is already about to cut some OH flying)

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 16):
I'd take a CRJ to CVG, or even SLC over a 737-800(except a 737-200).

I still think any seat on a 7X7 is better than the window seat on a CRJ.

[Edited 2005-09-23 06:30:24]


"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 5721 posts, RR: 46
Reply 18, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3191 times:

Quoting AkjetBlue (Reply 14):
Word on the street is that DL is looking to sell or unload some 60 RJs owned by OH. Right now is the worst time to do it as the market is getting flooded with used RJs for sale.

Not that much a problem for Delta, as I doubt they would sell the CRJs that Comair owns, but rather will try to reject the leases on the leased CRJs, however many Comair has of those (should be around 50-60), which would make them the lessor's problem. At the same time, we might also see DL sell and lease back some of their owned RJs to save costs.


User currently offlineDFW13L From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3166 times:

Quoting DAYflyer (Thread starter):
Aren't you a bundle of joy...fact is would you rather have no service than RJ's? You can't have it all! Grow up.

CRJ 200s are Miserable. I get a crick in my neck when I try to look out the window for starters. When I look around all I see is wall. The CRJ 700s seem OK, but I haven't flown them much (they lowered the floor or raised the windows or something.) I fly Eagle ERJ 140/145s almost every week and they are just fine--huge windows, making the cabin open and light. And on the ERJ, the single seat side is wonderful.


User currently offlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5846 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3140 times:

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 17):
A fee for departure regional who currently runs flights for two carriers in bankruptcy. Clearly Skywest makes sure their costs are covered.

Just becuase they are in bankruptcy now doesn't mean that they've always been. Also, the airline PAYS the regionals in a fee-for-departure situation, and guess what? Not all of the flying is FFD. Many regionals actually make money on routes that they fly at their own risk while still under the major's brand name.



Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3106 times:

I suppose there are some routes where a CRJ makes perfect sense; but the majority of the flying public seems to prefer mainline service and mainline has better ROI for DL, thats why I was asking the question.


One Nation Under God
User currently offlineSeadog1 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 4 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3024 times:

Having not flown since 2001 when I was under 200 pounds trying to squeze in CRJ seat out of Manchester,NH was quite shock. Getting into a seat of CRJ is onething, getting out is another. Oh for the days of big seats and the airplanes that were real airliners and not strech corporate wanabees.

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