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747-ADV Approval One Step Closer  
User currently offlineIwok From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 10625 times:

More interesting news on the 747-ADV front. Cargolux is getting real close to signing on.

Looks like the pax version is moving along as well.

From the incessant noise on the ADV, it appears that we are pretty well assured that the program will kick-off; barring any SARS or other such unexpected calamity.

iwok

http://biz.yahoo.com/bizj/050922/1168493.html?.v=2


bizjournals.com
Cargolux expresses interest in fuel-efficient 747 freighter
Thursday September 22, 9:06 pm ET

Rising fuel prices are making the fuel efficiencies of The Boeing Co.'s proposed 747 Advanced freighter more desirable, said Cargolux President and CEO Ulrich Ogiermann. He anticipates a launch of the Boeing's latest cargo jet program soon.
ADVERTISEMENT

"In two or three months, this thing should definitely be finalized," Ogiermann said Thursday at the Cargo Facts 2005 air cargo conference in Seattle. "I'm very optimistic that they will soon launch the program."
....
Comparing the 747 Advanced to the Airbus A380 freighter, Ogiermann said he believes the latter aircraft will be best for freight "integrators" like FedEx, that need to move large volumes of lighter cargo between large airport hubs.

But he added that the 747 Advanced has its own strengths, including a nose door that allows the loading of oversized cargoes.

Ogiermann said he's also hearing, through the industry grapevine, that many passenger carriers are seriously thinking about ordering 747 Advanced aircraft."


53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4117 posts, RR: 90
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 10573 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

That is very positive news from Mr Ogiermann given that CVs contract is contingent upon being signed prior to year end. It would be great to see some PAX versions ordered too.

Regards, PanAm_DC10



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 10489 times:

"Ogiermann said he's also hearing, through the industry grapevine, that many passenger carriers are seriously thinking about ordering 747 Advanced aircraft.

"What I hear is that they're looking for something without the huge risks of the A380," he said. "What I hear, behind the scenes, is that there's strong interest on the passenger side.""

I wouldn't be surprised if it were carriers such as BA, CX and maybe NH or JL...lets add SQ to the mix, but SQ would be a long shot...



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineSthPacific787 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 10443 times:

[quote=Jacobin777,reply=2]I wouldn't be surprised if it were carriers such as BA, CX and maybe NH or JL...lets add SQ to the mix,

I sincerely hope so. It would be awesome to see the 'Queen of the Skies' be given a new lease of life and a bright future!


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 10265 times:

Obviously 2 or 3 commitments for passenger 747adv seem key for the project. I'm not sure if it will be the CX, BA or JL kind of carriers. Those are the ones who can fill A380's.

I think the 744 operators who can't fill / don't want a 500+ seater in the foreseable future are more likely, say the ElAl, KLM, NWA, UA, ELAL kind of airlines.

I think the 747adv should be launched soon now, the 744's start to become of age & operators could change their minds.


User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10654 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 10073 times:

Fine. Although the steps taken are pretty slow for my taste.

It looks like negotiations with potential customers are probably harder than expected because the airlines interested have to many contradicting wishes regarding the details of the 747 Advanced. That it will come is beyond doubt now, as the market needs hundreds of aircraft of this size in the next decade and no other aircraft is out there (a shortened A380 might probably not deliver the economics of the 747 Adv.. Most "shrinks" don´t work as the basic aircraft is too heavy. That killed the proposed 777-100 a few years ago)


User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 9956 times:

In the 772LR 'testers' blog' on the Boeing website, The '747ADV program' is being routinely mentioned. This phrase is typical:-

"As we mentioned last time, the longer-term technology research we've been undertaking this past summer won't find its way onto a production airplane for 3-5 years. Initially on the 787 and the 747 Advanced."

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/777family/200LR/flight_test/

I suspect that the program is in full swing; but that there won't be any announcement until the machinists' strike ends.



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offline777MAS From Malaysia, joined Sep 2003, 197 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 9902 times:

It would be awesome to see the 'Queen of the Skies' be given a new lease of life and a bright future!

Heh heh, the "Queen" will always be more beautiful than the "King"  Smile


User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 9794 times:

Long live the queen!

I hope the orders are signed soon...can't stand the suspense much longer!
 hyper 



One Nation Under God
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 9533 times:

Quoting SthPacific787 (Reply 3):
I sincerely hope so. It would be awesome to see the 'Queen of the Skies' be given a new lease of life and a bright future!

 thumbsup 

Quoting Keesje (Reply 4):
I'm not sure if it will be the CX, BA or JL kind of carriers. Those are the ones who can fill A380's.

guess again...it seems like as if some just very might be ready to order some....though from the other thread, with the A380 back on schedule
(Airbus: A380 Back On Track), I could potentially see SQ taking a pass on the 747ADV..but if CX, JL, NH, and especially BA ordered the 747ADV, it would be a big boon for Boeing and potentially bad for The WhaleJet orders with these carriers..

"Boeing nears 747ADV launch decision
Wednesday September 7, 2005
Boeing is moving closer to the launch of the 747-400ADV with the announced sale of four 747-400Fs to Nippon Cargo Airlines.According to insiders at the manufacturer, the next delivery slots are 747-400ADV aircraft. This year the company has sold 24 747-400s and now has a backlog of 30 net of five cancellations logged in 2005.

Cargolux has announced its intention to order 10 747-ADV freighters. Other carriers identified with the program are China Airlines, Malaysia Airlines, Japan Airlines, Singapore Airlines and British Airways."

source ATWonline.com



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 9472 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 9):
According to insiders at the manufacturer, the next delivery slots are 747-400ADV aircraft.

That would be incredible if Boeing can achieve it. With only 30-odd old-model 747s still in the queue to be built, surely that points to 747ADV deliveries in late 2006 or early 2007?

By the way, the Airbus announcement was that they were now able to start production and hope to avoid any further A380 delays - not recover any of the six-month delay already announced. In fact, according to this, SQ deliveries (originally April 2006) may be pushed back to December:-

"The first plane due to be delivered commercially is one of five A380s taking shape under an undercoat of green paint in the assembly plant, with only the livery on the tail giving away its future owner -- Singapore Airlines, which will receive the plane in November or December 2006."

http://today.reuters.com/investing/f...TRIDST_0_TRANSPORT-AIRBUS-A380.XML

They'd better make sure of that. Be a laugh if, after all the speculation, the 747ADV beat the A380 into service, wouldn't it?  Smile



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently onlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1871 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 9426 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 2):
and maybe NH or JL...



Quoting Keesje (Reply 4):
I'm not sure if it will be the CX, BA or JL kind of carriers. Those are the ones who can fill A380's.

JL would probably never buy A380. Being the largest operator of 747 right now, I won't be surprised if they will be the launch customer for the passenger version. CX maybe, BA possibly, though not before 747-500 is in revenue service with other carriers. I'd also add Lufthansa and Qantas to the mix.

Quoting 777MAS (Reply 7):
Heh heh, the "Queen" will always be more beautiful than the "King"

Both king and queen are ugliest passenger planes ever made. I'd rather take the princesses anytime (look at my sig to find out who they are   )

[Edited 2005-09-23 17:34:44]


STOP TERRORRUSSIA!!!
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 9264 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 10):
That would be incredible if Boeing can achieve it. With only 30-odd old-model 747s still in the queue to be built, surely that points to 747ADV deliveries in late 2006 or early 2007?

I think EIS would be 2008....but i'm not sure of that....

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 10):
By the way, the Airbus announcement was that they were now able to start production and hope to avoid any further A380 delays - not recover any of the six-month delay already announced. In fact, according to this, SQ deliveries (originally April 2006) may be pushed back to December:-

yah.that thread has been discussed...its still delayed by 6 months....



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8838 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 12):
I think EIS would be 2008....but i'm not sure of that....

You might see them pre-olympics, but that would be an outside shot. they can't "promise" them by that time like the 787, at least.

30 744 slots, combined with the strike, is much longer than 2007 backlog.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 8676 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 13):

You might see them pre-olympics, but that would be an outside shot. they can't "promise" them by that time like the 787, at least.

30 744 slots, combined with the strike, is much longer than 2007 backlog.

the mere fact it might be built is a testament to the plane!

Hopefully the will announce it soon!



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 8632 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 14):
the mere fact it might be built is a testament to the plane!

Hopefully the will announce it soon!

No doubt.

Can't wait to see them at LAX, and maybe take one to Asia. Maybe visit HongKong.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineBoeing Nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 8612 times:

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 11):
Both king and queen are ugliest passenger planes ever made. I'd rather take the princesses anytime (look at my sig to find out who they are )

Careful sir, you'll get reamed for that one. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.


User currently offlineAreopagus From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1369 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 8432 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 9):
though from the other thread, with the A380 back on schedule
(Airbus: A380 Back On Track),

Hmmm, it looks like that thread must have been deleted.


User currently onlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1871 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 8384 times:

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 16):
Careful sir, you'll get reamed for that one.

Don't worry, I'll be just fine... given the fact that my favourite 747 never made it off the CATIA desktops...



[Edited 2005-09-23 20:04:11]

[Edited 2005-09-23 20:05:31]


STOP TERRORRUSSIA!!!
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 8235 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 15):
Can't wait to see them at LAX, and maybe take one to Asia. Maybe visit HongKong.

you mean SFO... Wink


ok...how about both... Smile



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineIwok From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7810 times:

Quoting NA (Reply 5):
Fine. Although the steps taken are pretty slow for my taste.

Hey, not too bad for an airframe that many of us had declared as dead..

I wonder if increasing fuel costs is one of the factors in bringing her back to life.

iwok


User currently offlineHamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2735 posts, RR: 58
Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7791 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 2):
I wouldn't be surprised if it were carriers such as BA, CX and maybe NH or JL...lets add SQ to the mix, but SQ would be a long shot...

SQ will not order the airplane, at least not the passenger version. We might see a Freighter order in the future, but SQ will stick with the A380 for the large passenger aircraft.

CX is unclear. Though they have often been linked hand-in-hand with the 747Adv., they've continuously delayed ordering anything other than more 773's and A333's. Though an order from CX was expected by the end of the year, I don't know how the acquisition of used-744's have affected that timeline.

JL, NH and BA are all good possibilities, I would say, though again, timing is an issue.

Quoting Keesje (Reply 4):
I'm not sure if it will be the CX, BA or JL kind of carriers. Those are the ones who can fill A380's.

But they're also the type of carriers that have the slots at their respective airports not to need the A380.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 10):
With only 30-odd old-model 747s still in the queue to be built, surely that points to 747ADV deliveries in late 2006 or early 2007?

There is a current backlog of 42 aircraft. At the current rate of 1.5/month, that would bring us to the beginning of 2008. Rates on the 747 are to drop to @ 1/month next year. There are also more 744F/ERF's in the order pipeline.

EIS of 747Adv has been stated as 1Q'09.


Regards,

Hamlet69



Honor the warriors, not the war.
User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7719 times:

Quoting Iwok (Reply 20):
Hey, not too bad for an airframe that many of us had declared as dead..

To quote Mark Twain after reading his obituary in a newspaper: "Reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated."


User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12408 posts, RR: 37
Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 7689 times:

Are they still keeping the 744 Advanced Freighter longer than the pax model?

If so, I wonder how many pax versions will be sold; there doesn't seem to be a huge capacity difference and it could probably be made up by a minor reconfiguration?

That said, I do hope it goes ahead.

Who said the 747 was ugly? I could watch 747s landing and taking off every day. It is a wonderful sight and a spectacular aircraft. To my mind, the 747 is the greatest commercial aircraft ever built. If you go back through the whole history of aviation, I'm not sure that there is a similar jump in capacity from one generation to another. Even from the piston/prop age to the early 707s, the jump wasn't that great; the DC7s and Britannias could come pretty close to the 707, particularly the QF 707-138Bs, and the A380 is only about 25% bigger than the 744, but the 744 nearly doubled the capacity of the next largest plane, the DC8-61/63. To have had such faith, such vision and to have been the pioneer of twin aisle passenger aircraft and big fan/high bypass engines must mark it out as one of the greatest.

I hope it gets one last hurrah.

It will always get it from me!


User currently offlineHawker From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 7550 times:

Quoting BlueSky1976 reply 11
Both king and queen are ugliest passenger planes ever made. I'd rather take the princesses anytime (look at my sig to find out who they are)

Are not all airliners essentially female. That is they are generally beautiful, seductive in the air and need a skilled hand to get the best out of them?

Also they require lots of attention and can turn into a real bitch.


25 Byrdluvs747 : And when things do go wrong there's always a lot of drama.
26 Post contains images Boeing Nut : Well then, there is hope for you after all!!!    I was a big fan of the 500X/600X program myself. The 747 Advanced makes 500X/600X fans like myself
27 AirportGal : If I recall correctly.... the 777-300ER and 200LR launch was announced during the engineer's strike......
28 UALophile : Is there any American domestic airline what would need new 747's soon, and consider the 747 Adv? I would think that, once it's house is in order, UA w
29 Jacobin777 : thats kind of what I think...but if the 747ADV offers better value than the A380 (in terms of relative cost/trip, etc), look for SQ to add some to th
30 VV701 : I agree with Hamlet 69 but not for this reason as BA has a smaller percentage of slots at LHR than virtually any other major airline at its home base
31 BandA : Amen! I am not the kind of person that would fall in love with a car or sheds a tear if such car would vanish over time, but the thought of 747 airfr
32 Trex8 : oh goody goody! can't wait for a new 747. seems like yesterday my dad took me to see my first jumbo, except it was 36 years ago!! so what will it be c
33 Dcflyer9 : The issue I have with a 747advanced is what about passenger comfort? Are we still going to be using the 17 inch wide seats from 30 years ago? As a pas
34 BlueSky1976 : Let me put it this way: if Boeing brought back -500X and gave it 787 technology, it would be THE plane that would make SYD-LHR profitable... My guess
35 Trex8 : I don't see the USAF being real keen on ETOPs somehow, esp when the passenger is the President!
36 Post contains images BandA : BlueSky, let me rephrase "A 777 as a Airforce ONE would not LOOK as impressive"  again only in my eyes and IMHO. my entire post was about the way 74
37 BandA : really! damn, honestly I have no clue what the 745, 746 concepts were... but sounds amazing... too bad though...
38 Boeing nut : ...... .......they would probably be out of the airliner business. Right after the time they shelved the project, the Asian recession hit. Boeing wou
39 Ikramerica : since I live in LA, I could give a flip about SFO...
40 Post contains images Jacobin777 : just when I thought we were going to get along....
41 Post contains images QFA001 : I realise that this is an exercise in the hypothetical, but I doubt that a 747-500X with B787 technology would realise that kind of range. The propos
42 Zvezda : It's really not a question of opinion. Just compare the SFC of the engines proposed for the B747-500X and those for the B787. The difference is only
43 Post contains links BlueSky1976 : Actually, you got things reversed. If I remember correctly (gotta do some digging thru my AW&ST archives), the cancellation of 747-500X/600X was the
44 Jacobin777 : umm...BlueSky1976...thanks for the info, but reply 40 by me wasn't what you quoted...
45 Post contains images BlueSky1976 : Sorry, I guess I got lost while editing a reply there
46 EI321 : What! Are you joking? How could the 747A possibly make it into service by the end of next year? I vote JAL or ANA as the potential major launch custo
47 DfwRevolution : >> Actually, Boeing quoted the range of 747-500X as 10000nm with 462 passengers, according to this source. Bluesky1976, the source you indicated stat
48 PlaneSmart : 744 orders in the last 8 months have been packaged with the 747ADV, including the offer of retrospective discounts on 744's when ADV's are ordered. B'
49 DfwRevolution : >> 744 orders in the last 8 months have been packaged with the 747ADV, including the offer of retrospective discounts on 744's when ADV's are ordered
50 PlaneSmart : But these discussions have been of such a general nature they haven't triggered any B traditional supplier requests for funding. Very unusual if a fo
51 Post contains images Iwok : Well, lets see what sort of unforseen delays hit the "three eighty" Seriously however, with all the recent Airbus press blitzkrieg regarding the sche
52 PanAm_DC10 : Because they are awaiting formal launch. I feel you will find that the discussions have taken place within the respective suppliers Treasury Groups a
53 EI321 : But thats different. the A380 is in the middle of its flight test programme. Theres nothing major left to be tested. We know the reasons for the dela
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