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Story Behind Dead VS Pilot In The Caribbean?  
User currently offlineAerofan From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1517 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 10729 times:

Does anyone know the complete story behind the dead VS pilot who was found in the Caribbean this week?

What flight?
Natural causese?
What happened to operations of that flight? Was it a 24hr delay? Ferried to another island?

33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineVSFullThrottle From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 280 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 10560 times:

Hey Aerofan

Where did you hear that from???

Is that all you know???

VSFT


User currently offlineInbound From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Sep 2001, 851 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10425 times:

He (F/O) committed suicide at the hotel.

Apparently it was last night, and details are still very limited.

The island of Tobago. I flew in there this morning and the aircraft was still parked at the gate, completely closed up and isolated.

G-VROY.

Last I heard is the relief crew already in Tobago TAB, will get the necessary amount of rest and resume operation shortly.

My deepest condolences!



Maintain own separation with terrain!
User currently offlineAirbuff From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10411 times:

How sad. God Bless him.


Where am I going, and why am I in this handbasket?
User currently offlineAerofan From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1517 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 10030 times:

VS FullThrottle, yep that's all I know. Heard some VS staff at JFK talking about it today. The details were sketchy

Inbound, thanks for the info


User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 4003 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9294 times:

I was wondering how the airline will explain the cancellation under these circumstances. Will they just tell the pax the plain truth or make something up ?

User currently offlineSlarty From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 342 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8999 times:

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/index.pl/article_news?id=103769747

So sad...


User currently offlineArmitageShanks From UK - England, joined Dec 2003, 3625 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 8404 times:

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 5):
Will they just tell the pax the plain truth or make something up ?

They will tell the truth.


User currently offlineBMIFlyer From UK - England, joined Feb 2004, 8810 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7890 times:

Thats awful, what would make a person do such a thing?

Must have had some serious issues  Sad


Lee



Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
User currently offlineJamesbuk From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 3968 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 7550 times:

at least he didnt do this inflight like a few people alledgedly have. he has in my views the perfect job for a great airline yet he commits suicide how sad
R.I.P



You cant have your cake and eat it... What the hells the point in having it then!!!
User currently offlineAerofan From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1517 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 7452 times:

Armitage

Interesting question. I'll see if I can find anything out from my Virgin friends at JFK.


User currently offlineFlyMIA From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7174 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 7250 times:

Quoting Jamesbuk (Reply 9):
at least he didnt do this inflight like a few people alledgedly have. he has in my views the perfect job for a great airline yet he commits suicide how sad

I was thinking the exact same thing. Wonder if he knew he was going to do it that night after that flight? If he knew that would be his last landing? Who knows.
Anyway atleast he did not do anything crazy inflight.
RIP



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineFLY2LIM From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1184 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 7127 times:

Quoting Jamesbuk (Reply 9):
at least he didnt do this inflight like a few people alledgedly have. he has in my views the perfect job for a great airline yet he commits suicide how sad
R.I.P



Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 11):
I was thinking the exact same thing. Wonder if he knew he was going to do it that night after that flight? If he knew that would be his last landing? Who knows.
Anyway atleast he did not do anything crazy inflight.

I'm sorry, what completely insensitive comments. Just because he's a F/O for VS and has the "perfect job for a great airline" does not mean that he has no personal demons he couldn't overcome. But to, somehow, paint this person as being stupid for giving up the "perfect job" that many a.nutters would dream of having is incredibly insensitive.
I am going to assume that when someone takes their life, the last thing on their mind is "boy, I'm no longer gonna get to fly those pretty planes."
It is equally stupid to assume that a person who wants to end his/her life would decide to go out with a "bang" and take with them a bunch of innocent pax. The comment of him "not doing anything crazy inflight" tells me that the poster has no idea what suicide is about. I mean, I don't know what would drive someone to suicide but, most times, it doesn't involve taking down a plane just to make a point.
I'm sorry, I took exception to those posts. I hate it when a.nutters speculate on stuff like this.
FLY2LIM



Faucett. La primera linea aerea del Peru.
User currently onlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6203 posts, RR: 30
Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6760 times:
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Quoting Aerofan (Thread starter):
I'm sorry, what completely insensitive comments. Just because he's a F/O for VS and has the "perfect job for a great airline" does not mean that he has no personal demons

I totally agree with the above. So far we know nothing of this person's life, not that it should be our business, and people post comments like the ones FLY2LIM references.

Suicide is usually associated with depression. On average, 15% of depression-affected people will commit successful suicide. Again we know nothing about the guy. Did his co-workers lately observed he was depressed? Was he on medication and forgot to take it? or ran out of it?

Depression is a very tricky disorder. Some people are extremely depressed, suffering from clinical depression but will not let people on the outside know. There is a name for this type of depression but I don't recall it now. The point is, once they are alone, their existing depression hits with a vengeance and it becomes so bad for them it's almost palpable. In any case, even in this type of depression, there are signals given out by the person that are not that difficult to read.

During my graduate studies, I had a classmate who was the epitome of the all around American student. Always organizing activities (soccer games, barbeques, volunteering events, charity events) He had a beautiful fiancee he had introduced to everybody. He always had a smile and was always willing to help anybody. Yet, 6 months before the 2 year graduate program ended, he committed suicide. I won't go into the details but we were all shocked. If there was anybody who had everything going for him, it was him.

You should never ignore someone close to you with clinical depression. The old adage of "just snap out of it" doesn't work. It is a condition that requires professional help and medication. Forget the British "stiff upper lip" line.

I believe that in this case, if anybody is to blame, it is VS, for not having a system to correctly assess the mental health of its crew members. Assuming of course, the suicide cause was depression. It seems a consequence of the "Hush, hush" culture developed among crew members. If any of his coworkers noted the guy was acting strangely. They should have spoken up, and Human Resources should have intervened, (I am assuming none of this happened.)

The sad thing is that this guy was probably screaming for help and nobody heard him, figuratively speaking. There are always signs. It seems like just another case of that sad 15% statistic. Again, someone in his immediate circle of people, family, co-workers, friends, his GP should have helped him.

Having the "perfect job for the perfect airline" is really an insensitive and ignorant thing to say.

If you know someone with depression, don't ignore it and don't pity it, and definitely do not underestimate it. Get or convince that person to seek professional help immediately. Given the potential results we now saw, depression is a dangerous condition which can obviously lead to death.



MGGS
User currently onlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6203 posts, RR: 30
Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6407 times:
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So, is there any more information about this incident? I can't seem to find it anywhere except on the links provided, but it's the same we know.


MGGS
User currently offlineAtco2b From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 1114 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6399 times:

Very sad news. RIP  Sad


Hey, you want to go out for pizza and some sex? What, you don't like pizza?
User currently offlineRichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4260 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6000 times:

Quoting FLY2LIM (Reply 12):
I am going to assume that when someone takes their life, the last thing on their mind is "boy, I'm no longer gonna get to fly those pretty planes."

Very well said, Fly2Lim. No matter the outcome, it is a very sad and tragic ending for some family to have to deal with. Like most people in here, I wish them the best and hope they pull through some of the dark days ahead.



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineAA54Heavy From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 189 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5941 times:

Perhaps a big issue here is the fact that you cannot hold a pilot's license while being on anti-depressants, at least for the US, or from what I understand, even be treated (therapy) for depression.....so, if someone does have that "dream job" but will lose it because they need to seek help or get on anti-depressants (which work very well for alot of people), perhaps some people will hide it and pretend they are okay so they keep their job, yet the depression ends up biting them in the end....perhaps other people more familiar with this can chime in


Roger that, turning to our "other" left
User currently offlineInbound From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Sep 2001, 851 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5779 times:

we've HEARD a thing or two here and even though it's a sensitive topic, I'm sure some curiousity would like to be satisfied.

from what I've HEARD, there was some problems with "personal relations".

His business is still HIS business. So how about we leave it at that? I'm sure he'd like to maintain a degree of pride, even in death. RIP.



Maintain own separation with terrain!
User currently onlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6203 posts, RR: 30
Reply 19, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5661 times:
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Quoting Inbound (Reply 18):
His business is still HIS business. So how about we leave it at that?

Sorry, Inbound, but no

There's no "leave it at that", in this case.

In some professions there are other groups left behind who need to know what happened. Among many, we, the lowly passengers. I, as a passenger, would want to know what happened and then why to such an important member of the crew that it left me stranded for two days. It doesn't take long for the imagination of such passengers to start playing with scenarios like "what if he had done in flight?" They might not need to know as much as other institutions, granted.

But the industry, not only the airline, need to look at what they currently do to potentially have a role in such a case. How to avoid it, maybe, how to screen those who might require some help later, and other things.

Rules and regulations need to be looked at, if what AA54Heavy says applies in the EU. How many pilots flying out there are dangerously depressed, hauling 400 people behind the cockpit door who can do nothing about it because of archaic regulations? What is worst? to have a deppression affected individual in the cockpit with no treatment and no hope of treatment or someone who is going to treatment and takes the required medication for his condition if he requires it?, openly if he desires it.

And even if it doesn't come to that, there is a contradiction here. You might be holding the best job of your life, but that same job prohibits your ability to seek help for your depressed state. If you are depressed as such and that job you love so much won't let you seek help, then somethng has to give. The Egyptair 990 and the Sylkair crashes come to mind now, don't they ?.



MGGS
User currently offlineAerofan From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1517 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 5622 times:

what do u mean problems with personal relations - that can cover a whole range of things -i haven't been able to find out anything from the vs staff as yet. they no nothing. as a matter of fact some didn't even know about the incident. then again most of the staff at jfk are no longer vs staff anymore . they are from the outsource company

User currently offlineAztec01 From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 147 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5541 times:

Quoting AA54Heavy (Reply 17):
Perhaps a big issue here is the fact that you cannot hold a pilot's license while being on anti-depressants

While the antidepressants may help elevate mood, some of them make people profoundly dopey and tired until they get used to them. Often they are given in combination with other medications (mood stabilizers, antipsychotics, etc) that may slow reflexes and thought. More than anything else, clinical depression has the very heavy stigma of 'mental illness' attached to it, which causes people to try and ignore and minimize it. The stigma of suicidality is even worse. It makes reasonable sense to not allow a person on certain antidepressants, or struggling with suicidality to fly or pilot a plane. It's both for the pilot's and any passengers safety. But it's gotta be hard to admit your struggle if doing so causes the loss of everything that gives your life purpose.

May the pilot's soul rest in peace and may he have freedom from the demons that haunted him.  pray 


User currently offlineHikesWithEyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 816 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5500 times:

Quoting FLY2LIM (Reply 12):
It is equally stupid to assume that a person who wants to end his/her life would decide to go out with a "bang" and take with them a bunch of innocent pax

http://www.guardian.co.uk/egyptair/article/0,2763,330000,00.html>



First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
User currently offlineTrolley Dolley From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5481 times:

For those who say it's "a dream job", all I can say is that for any frequent traveller- whether crew or passengers- the lifestyle can have many, very lonely moments. You may simply want or need a cuddle, talk or other sort of emotional intimacy that is not possible in a non-descript hotel room at 2am when you are wide awake becasue of jet lag with loved ones on the other side of the globe. Regular travel places many strains on relationships and a person's soul.

The only people that need to know "why" are his friends and family. Sadly, as I have learned personally, they may never receive an answer to the most simplest of questions.

I strongly feel that discussions about "why" and some a.netters trying to get grittier details are totally inappropriate for this forum. They could also be breaching privacy laws.

On the other hand, the issues of mental health in airline workers, and steps taken to ensure their well being are valid points of discussion raise by this tragic incident.

My condolences to any VS a.netters who many have been directly affected by this loss on a personal level. My your friend and colleague rest in peace, and may your sadnessed be soothed by the passing of time. RIP


User currently onlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6203 posts, RR: 30
Reply 24, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5337 times:
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Quoting Aztec01 (Reply 21):
While the antidepressants may help elevate mood, some of them make people profoundly dopey and tired until they get used to them. Often they are given in combination with other medications (mood stabilizers, antipsychotics, etc) that may slow reflexes and thought. More than anything else, clinical depression has the very heavy stigma of 'mental illness' attached to it, which causes people to try and ignore and minimize it. The stigma of suicidality is even worse. It makes reasonable sense to not allow a person on certain antidepressants, or struggling with suicidality to fly or pilot a plane. It's both for the pilot's and any passengers safety. But it's gotta be hard to admit your struggle if doing so causes the loss of everything that gives your life purpose

Thanks a lot for clearing up the issue of depression and why a pilot should not be on the cockpit while on medication for that particular condition. Many contributions on A.net forums should be like yours, for this type of discussions. On the other hand, people need to change their attitudes toward the mental illness stigma that is assigned to this condition. I really hope this will change someday

Quoting Trolley Dolley (Reply 23):
On the other hand, the issues of mental health in airline workers, and steps taken to ensure their well being are valid points of discussion raise by this tragic incident.

Yes, I think it's time that this issue is taken up by the industry, specially since many new medications are coming out regularly.



MGGS
25 TWA902fly : so bad.
26 Tod : Very well said. For me anyway, a certain occasions, very few things suck more than waking up looking at another hotel ceiling and realizing that you'
27 S5FA170 : Trolley - You are right. Working in the airline industry is quite a great field to be in. However, like you said, some people don't understand the li
28 Trolley Dolley : Firstly, I'm not, nor ever have been airline staff. I have however travelled a lot, hence my previous post and nom de plume ( I spend as much time in
29 UA777222 : I think company benifits for any airline are sweet. If you can't take the job step down. It's not like the airline pulled you off the street and begg
30 Trolley Dolley : Matt. I'm saddened how you interpreted my response as being critical of the gentleman concerned. Please read reply 23 and you'll see that I have vigor
31 Diesel1 : Can't even be bothered to read this. The only story is to have some respect for the dead. Anyone suggesting anything other than that should be ashame
32 UA777222 : I am even more sorry that you interpereted my responce that way. The first paragraph aw was in response to what you said, the rest was my own opinion
33 Sheraboam : Look, every one settle down, I think the curiousity on here to know why is for the same reasons I do.........did the job do it? Was it work issues? He
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