Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Possible US-MUC Transatlantic Routes.  
User currently offlineUSAF757300 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2842 times:

I was wondering, is there any possibilities of new USA- Munich routes in the works? I hear UA is doing very well with IAD-MUC, and ORD-MUC routes. And LH is making money on most of their routes from the US to MUC (such as LAX, ORD, CLT, JFK, BOS-MUC). What about a new USairways PHX-MUC, or even LH. Maybe a NWA DTW-MUC. Or Delta adding a JFK-MUC.

What are your thoughts?

31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3767 posts, RR: 19
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2822 times:

I think the most possible route is a EWR-MUC route with CO!

Also I think DL could make a profitable JFK-MUC route!

DL and CO seem to be adding new routes recently to Europe!  Smile

Rob!  Smile


User currently offlineBDKLEZ From Ireland, joined Jun 2005, 1735 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2809 times:

Quoting B742 (Reply 1):
DL and CO seem to be adding new routes recently to Europe!

Even to just the UK only, CO now have..

EWR - LGW/MAN/BFS/BRS/BHX/EDI/GLA & CLE - LGW

..with numerous more throughout Europe. Bur particularly in the UK there has been a massive expansion into what would normally be considered more regional/domestic airports.



Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
User currently offlineVega From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 2678 times:

Quoting USAF757300 (Thread starter):
What about a new USairways PHX-MUC, or even LH

Probably not at least until US gets a 350 (or 787). The best possibility and also a long shot is for the current PHL-MUC flight to be extended to originate in PHX. If LH felt there was sufficient O&D out of PHX for a non-stop to Germany, they would likely start a FRA route first with a possible US code share.


User currently offlinePanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2669 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2657 times:

Quoting Vega (Reply 3):
If LH felt there was sufficient O&D out of PHX for a non-stop to Germany, they would likely start a FRA route first with a possible US code share.

They already did. And dropped it. The only chance of another long haul route out of PHX would be if either a) BA dropped LHR (not happening, IMO), or b) US/LH started it after PHX was a fully-operating hub under the US Airways name, which won't be for another couple years at least. So it'll be awhile before PHX sees a non-stop to Germany.

As for other possible routes, most feasible ones are in operation today. The only possible routes I see coming would be AA JFK-DUS (have they announced it, or postponed... anything?), maybe CO from EWR-MUC or (a long shot here) a re-launch of EWR-DUS.


User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5922 posts, RR: 40
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2628 times:

Quoting B742 (Reply 1):
Also I think DL could make a profitable JFK-MUC route!

I hope it, in the past they had problems to make money on the route ... due this they axed it.



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5922 posts, RR: 40
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2601 times:

Quoting USAF757300 (Thread starter):
Maybe a NWA DTW-MUC

this service is since long a rumor... but now theare are with Ch.11.... who knows.... It would be great.

I think AA could start soon a daily B767-300 from DFW and or JFK.

regards
Avianca

[Edited 2005-09-25 03:44:53]


Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4680 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2438 times:

My bets are on DEN, with UA. Kepp in mind that their MUC-IAD flight continues on to DEN. They use a daily 772 and I guess quite a few pax are flying MUC-FRA-DEN on LH in order to avoid the crappy transit procedure in the USA. So if LH would cut back FRA-DEN from a 346 to a 343 (both daily), UA should be able to fill a daily 763 on MUC-DEN.
Are there any UA 763 based at DEN ? From what I´ve seen on the FRA-DEN schedule, a single aircraft is enough to fly MUC-DEN daily.



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5922 posts, RR: 40
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2411 times:

Quoting A342 (Reply 7):
My bets are on DEN, with UA

also good possible, for summer 2006 or summer 2007. I do not know if a longhaul B767 is based in DEN, if not also not a problem as they could use IAD based B767, and put them just on a IAD-DEN flight to give the B767 the position in DEN... On the other hand, it is also good possible that LH will operate the route with a A340-300... we will see.

regards
Avianca



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5922 posts, RR: 40
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2398 times:

regarding new LH flights. I hope they will upgrade the EWR service from B737 to an A-330/340.

Also a new LH destination could be DTW and or IAH/DFW....

regards
Avianca



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineUSAF757300 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2346 times:

Could we maybe see another go at a MIA-MUC on AA this time? I would really like to see NWA start up DTW-MUC, I think that they could go quite well with it too.

Thats just my 2 cents however.


User currently offlineHUYfan From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 1406 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2344 times:

I expected US to upgrade their PHL service to an A330, but it doesn't seem to have happened. There are a lot of flights to the US East Coast now, Washington is not that far from Philly either. I always thought a MUC-YYC Calgary flight might do OK a few times a week?

Regards

Mike


User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5922 posts, RR: 40
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2294 times:

Quoting USAF757300 (Reply 10):
Could we maybe see another go at a MIA-MUC on AA this time?

this flights is also on my wish list..but I see firstly a DFW flight...



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2281 times:

Look for DEN-MUC on LH to be started next year, probably A333, possibly A343 but I doubt it unless they cut the FRA flight from 744 Summer A346 Winter to A346 Summer A343 Winter. The city of Denver and Lufthansa have been in talks for awhile to get the flight started.

User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5922 posts, RR: 40
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2255 times:

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 13):
but I doubt it unless they cut the FRA flight from 744 Summer A346 Winter to A346 Summer A343 Winter

I think they will downgrade the FRA service as you mentioned... in favour of a MUC flight. The free 744 they could use for other high density routes like FRA-CCS or FRA-GRU-SCL

regards
Avianca



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineUSAF757300 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2210 times:

Maybe a DL CVG-MUC daily with a 767-300 could work too? It would be a nice compliment with the daily ATL-MUC. I heard somewhere that DL used to have 2x daily ATL-MUC with a 763? Can anyone conferm this??

User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5922 posts, RR: 40
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2205 times:

Quoting USAF757300 (Reply 15):
Maybe a DL CVG-MUC daily with a 767-300 could work too? It would be a nice compliment with the daily ATL-MUC. I heard somewhere that DL used to have 2x daily ATL-MUC with a 763? Can anyone conferm this??

yes they had last year in summer double dailys into MUC from ATL...

regarding CVG-MUC, well they had in the past a CVG-MUC flight (great days every day DL had 3 aircrafts at the same time in MUC... In the moment I do not think a flight from CVG would work as they are downgrading the CVG hub in the moment... sadly.



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24858 posts, RR: 46
Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2193 times:

Munich being a Star hub, pretty much eliminates or restricts other airlines from launching service to the city unless the potential carrier can survive off O&D traffic and feed via its own US hub.

Germany in general due to Lufthansa market strenght has been a difficult to crack for non Star airlines in the last several years. Delta and Continental for instance have avoided FRA and MUC and instead prefer to grow service from secondary German cities like TXL, HAM, STR, DUS avoiding the LH mega hubs.
AA on the other seem to shy away from Germany having actualy reduced their capacity compared to what they offered several years ago.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineUSAF757300 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2181 times:

I am thinking of traveling to MUC in March of `06. I would really like to take LH from LAX, or CLT. But will probably end up flying UAL from PHX-IAD-MUC, but at least Ill get a T7. I cannot wait to see Germany and the spotting I hear is great at MUC.

Avianca:
I agree, you make a good point about the downsizing of CVG, I totally forgot about that. I dont think DL will be expanding anywhere any time soon anyways.


User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5922 posts, RR: 40
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2173 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 17):
Delta and Continental for instance have avoided FRA and MUC

I would not say that Delta avoid FRA. At least they still have 3 x daily B767 and 1 x daily 777.

1x767 FRA-JFK
1x767 FRA-CVG
1x767 FRA-ATL
1x777 FRA-ATL

that is really not bad... of course not the same like years ago when they had nonstop flights to IAD,MCO,LAX etc... but do not forget DL main hub in Europe is the Sky Hub in CDG.

regards
Avianca



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32613 posts, RR: 72
Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2142 times:

Quoting Avianca (Reply 12):
Quoting USAF757300 (Reply 10):
Could we maybe see another go at a MIA-MUC on AA this time?

this flights is also on my wish list..but I see firstly a DFW flight...

AA perfers routing Europe flights through Miami, O'Hare, and JFK. MIA-MUC would probably start before DFW-MUC did. LTU flies MIA-MUC year-round, but there is room for another carrier. I don't see AA doing it, though, nor DFW-MUC.



a.
User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5922 posts, RR: 40
Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2131 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 20):
AA perfers routing Europe flights through Miami, O'Hare, and JFK. MIA-MUC would probably start before DFW-MUC did. LTU flies MIA-MUC year-round, but there is room for another carrier. I don't see AA doing it, though, nor DFW-MUC.

what I heard locally from german AA clerks DFW-MUC would start before...if they launch a MUC service.



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineSupa7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 2070 times:

Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 4):
. The only chance of another long haul route out of PHX would be if either a) BA dropped LHR (not happening, IMO), or b) US/LH started it after PHX was a fully-operating hub under the US Airways name, which won't be for another couple years at least.

Um actually, in a couple of _weeks_, not years, PHX will be a fully operating hub under the US Airways name. IMO that opens the door to LH flights almost immediately.

Quoting HUYfan (Reply 11):
I expected US to upgrade their PHL service to an A330, but it doesn't seem to have happened.

The world is a vast mysterious place indeed. But your expectation was realized temporarily for the month of September. Check the flight schedules.


User currently offlineBartond From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 788 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 2020 times:

I think that AA should switch their DFW-FRA flight to MUC anyways. DFW and MUC are both pretty large tech centers so the business traffic would make sense on that route, plus I would think that more travelers from the US are interested in flying to Bavaria than to the Frankfurt area.

User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26376 posts, RR: 76
Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 2005 times:

Quoting Vega (Reply 3):
If LH felt there was sufficient O&D out of PHX for a non-stop to Germany, they would likely start a FRA route first with a possible US code share.

Um, LH did fly the route and couldn't even make it work with a 763ER

Quoting A342 (Reply 7):
UA should be able to fill a daily 763 on MUC-DEN.

It would have a hard time making it on hot days from DEN



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
25 A342 : With the longest runway being 4800 meters I highly doubt you´re right. But yes, DEN is a hot-and-high airport.
26 Gilesdavies : It would be nice if BA could take a leaf out of Lufthansa's book and operate similar number of long haul routes from an alternative to London. As Luf
27 Johnnybgoode : i think MUC-DEN is pretty high on the agenda. it was contemplated before but then LH decided in favor of MUC-YUL. i also think that a service such as
28 TomFoolery : Last I checked there is also a LH flight between MUC and IAD, in addition to the UA 902/903. LH would probably do well with a flight to PHX, as it is
29 Flymunich : Next year we can see another United-Flight (3rd) in Munich to SFO. Lufthansa add two new destinations in USA, Denver and Phönix from Munich. That's a
30 BigOrange : I would like to see LH start a service from MUC-PHL, either instead of or alongside US. Our company could utilize this instead of going to JFK. (I kno
31 Avianca : I do not think they should swith the fligh to MUC as AA is established in Frankfurt + they have very good cargoloads... almost full every day + they
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
US Airways Transatlantic Routes posted Thu Mar 25 2004 04:19:26 by Sydscott
Dropped US-Mexico Regional Routes posted Wed Dec 6 2006 22:26:18 by BALAX
US And Asians Routes posted Sun Oct 22 2006 04:43:11 by Walter747
CO's New Transatlantic Routes posted Sat Aug 19 2006 15:50:41 by COERJ
US Airways E190 Routes? posted Tue Aug 15 2006 20:37:52 by HPRamper
Potential 757 Transatlantic Routes For Delta posted Sun Jun 11 2006 17:54:39 by 1337Delta764
Possible AA LAX International Routes? posted Thu Jun 8 2006 10:39:31 by BALAX
AA A300's On Transatlantic Routes posted Sun Apr 30 2006 02:39:27 by WorldTraveler
Possible US PHX-SDF (others Too?) posted Mon Apr 17 2006 13:36:53 by UPSMD11
Royal Jordanian's Transatlantic Routes posted Sat Feb 25 2006 21:01:03 by Delta767