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Demand For An NYC Service From North London?  
User currently offlineGilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2985 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2870 times:

There has been a lot coverage in the press over the last week how MaxJet and EOS will be launching all Biz/First Class services from Stansted in the coming months and also speculation that FlyFirst may be launching a similar services with a 757 from Luton.

I was wondering for us peasants whos bank balances don't quite reach the realms on flying Business or First Class if there would be demand for a service from LTN/STN to NYC with the likes of CO or AA using a 752.

People like myself who live Northamptonshire and Buckinghamshire we have to trundle around the M25 to LHR or LGW which is over a 2hr drive, passing LTN on the way!

I personally think the potential market is huge and North Londoners would choose the the service over having to get through London to LGW or LHR, and also very affluent counties like, Herts, Beds, Bucks, Essex, Cambs and Oxon. The chances are it would also attract people from further affield like East Anglia and the South/East Midlands.

Luton's marketing material claims that there are over 25 million people within a 1 hr travelling distance of the airport. (I wonder if that is off peak or peak time driving down the M1  Wink )

Or with the start of these new airlines to NYC has this written off any other chance of a major starting services to NYC from North London?

15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2822 times:

CO had a flight to STN but cancelled it after 9/11. Maybe they will come back some time.

User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 22
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2814 times:

How long is that runway at Luton?

I am sure it would make a profit between April and December....it's those slower months that beg the question...

The existing airlines flying into Gatwick and Heathrow are most likely selling the rear cabin at below cost.
Could any new entrant meet, or beat the fares to make it worthwhile?
I've seen fares between LON and NYC for as low as $199/plus tax...sure someone could match it, but for how long before the bank wants their planes back?

(Personally, I am waiting for someone to fly from the U.S. West Coast; like OAK, PDX, SMF, PHX, ONT, SMF, SJC, MCE to STN, maybe AMS, ORY, SNN, DUS, BGY too..
O.K., maybe not MCE...just seeing if you guys are paying attention!
Anyway, maybe some 767-200ERs one class, 32 inch, what is that, about 220?
There must be a few out there looking for a good home!)



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User currently offlineRdwootty From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 901 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2763 times:

If you are in Northampton then why not turn NORTH on the M1 and try CO from Birmingham 2 services a day ?? This would be better than trying the M25 and, in the near future, paying a toll to go to Heathrow

User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 7930 posts, RR: 54
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2716 times:

I live in Camden Town, which is kind of North London but almost counts as central London - the postcode is NW1 after all. And I'm thinking of using BHX, I can get a train from Euston (just down the road / one stop on the tube) direct to BHX. It's about an hour and a bit by rail from Euston. So it's no further in minutes than LGW, and even maybe as convenient as LHR, which benefits from a great (albeit astronomically expensive) rail link from Paddington, but Paddington is by far the worst London terminus to get to, relying on the horrifically unreliable Circle / District Lines, which for me involves backtracking to Kings Cross.

So I might give BHX a whirl.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19097 posts, RR: 53
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2702 times:

You can get a one-way train ticket from Euston to BHX for £9.50; a first-class one-way ticket will cost from £17.50.


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineBDKLEZ From Ireland, joined Jun 2005, 1735 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2680 times:

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 1):
CO had a flight to STN but cancelled it after 9/11. Maybe they will come back some time.

In light of CO's recent expansion in th UK, ie EWR-BRS/BFS/GLA/EDI, I don't suppose EWR-STN would be completely beyond the realms of possibility.

Also, FlyFirst's business-only service which was expected to launch LTN-NYC with A B757 in November, has been postponed until February next year. It appears that additional start-up capital was required. The two services from STN-NYC launching as busines-only with EOS and MaxJet both have the backing of a key US investor which FlyFirst's bid lacks.

In a way, that could be to the benefit of FlyFirst, in that they will have a few months in which to analyse the performance of the route prior to their own start-up.

Edir for additional info on FlyFirst.

[Edited 2005-09-25 23:14:18]

[Edited 2005-09-25 23:24:38]


Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
User currently offlineC680 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 580 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2635 times:

Stansted already sees at least 5 non-stops a day from America.

Of course, they are all private!  Smile



My happy place is FL470 - what's yours?
User currently offlinePlanesailing From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 815 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2625 times:

Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
There has been a lot coverage in the press over the last week how MaxJet and EOS will be launching all Biz/First Class services from Stansted in the coming months and also speculation that FlyFirst may be launching a similar services with a 757 from Luton.

Maxjet was meant to be a LCC style airline crossing the pond. They went back to the drawing board and worked out that it better to become and all Business/First carrier. If they cannot make a LCC style, or even below standard fares airline, and can see themselves surviving better as a Full class airline then there has to be some questions asked.

Its perculiar that Zoom can manage it in Canada however!


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19097 posts, RR: 53
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2611 times:

It could be easy to offer cheap one-way fares (as opposed to the normal return) and a simple fare structure and onboard service from the UK to the USA during the summer - when airfares rocket - but during the offpeak season, it'd be very difficult to cope when the 'traditional' carriers already offer very low fares. So, what do you do with your aircraft, crew and other staff? Perhaps you could fly UK-USA during the summer (say beginning March until the end September, or thereabouts) and then fly to different places - where winter is the peak time and when the fares are the highest.


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineCORULEZ05 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2593 times:

It is virtually impossible to want airlines to offer non-stop services from every airport in the area. Bottom line, if you want to travel to the U.S non-stop, you're gonna have to make your way to a larger airport.

User currently offlinePlanesailing From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 815 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2580 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 9):
Perhaps you could fly UK-USA during the summer (say beginning March until the end September, or thereabouts) and then fly to different places - where winter is the peak time and when the fares are the highest.

Kind of like Charter airline-esq. They operate to Summer sun destinations in the summer, and ski destinations in the Winter. Could certainly be feasible, though I dont know how route licenses work. Can you suspend it for say 6 months?


User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 22
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2495 times:

Repeating myself:

Quoting Stirling (Reply 2):
I am sure it would make a profit between April and December....it's those slower months that beg the question...



Quoting Stirling (Reply 2):
I've seen fares between LON and NYC for as low as $199/plus tax...sure someone could match it, but for how long before the bank wants their planes back?



Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 9):
So, what do you do with your aircraft, crew and other staff? Perhaps you could fly UK-USA during the summer (say beginning March until the end September, or thereabouts) and then fly to different places - where winter is the peak time and when the fares are the highest.

Something like PBA did in the U.S., albeit on a much smaller scale.
They operated in the NE during the summer, migrating to Florida in the winter.

Quoting Planesailing (Reply 11):
Can you suspend it for say 6 months?

I don't think the general public understands, or is capable of keeping a business in their memory in on/off 6-month chunks. It's got to be 12 or nothing, otherrwise they'll effectively have to re-launch, re-capture, and re-educate their core market over and over and over and over...The business model would never have the chance to mature.

Quoting CORULEZ05 (Reply 10):
It is virtually impossible to want airlines to offer non-stop services from every airport in the area. Bottom line, if you want to travel to the U.S non-stop, you're gonna have to make your way to a larger airport.

I think the theory is valid with low-density populations. In the case of Greater London, the inability to move rapidly from one part of the metropolis to another is extremely difficult and costly.
There is found the impetus behind why Greater London has 4 major airport facilities in the first place.
And the issue cannot be answered just with Mass Transit; even the comprehensive British public transit system still demands a high user fee, and multiple connections/modality transfers, to access Ports of Intercontinental lift. Many opt to travel by private automobile...clogging already strained thoroughfares, but giving the traveler more end control over his journey.
Giles' observation is closer to reality than he may realize:

Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
I personally think the potential market is huge and North Londoners would choose the the service over having to get through London to LGW or LHR, and also very affluent counties like, Herts, Beds, Bucks, Essex, Cambs and Oxon. The chances are it would also attract people from further affield like East Anglia and the South/East Midlands.

It's going to happen, Luton and Stansted will assume a greater functionality within the Greater London airport mix; becoming less of an LCC domain; the business traveler demanding a closer-to-home alternative to the choked Heathrow.

As much as I personally despise Luton, I feel much of it is because of it's operating at well below it's potential. One day, people (outside of the U.K.) will wake up and realize that Heathrow is a "Part" of the London Aviation Complex, and Not the "ONLY-Part" of the same.

[Edited 2005-09-26 04:30:13]


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User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16693 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2482 times:

Quoting C680 (Reply 7):
Stansted already sees at least 5 non-stops a day from America.

Of course, they are all private

Fed Ex flies a daily MD-11 between EWR and Stansted.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26196 posts, RR: 76
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2454 times:

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 4):
but Paddington is by far the worst London terminus to get to, relying on the horrifically unreliable Circle / District Lines, which for me involves backtracking to Kings Cross.

Um, why backtrack to Kings Cross when you can walk/ride to Euston and get the perfectly reliable Circle/Hammersmith and City from Euston Square. Also, you can take a bus direct



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineC680 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 580 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2410 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 13):
Quoting C680 (Reply 7):
Stansted already sees at least 5 non-stops a day from America.

Of course, they are all private

Fed Ex flies a daily MD-11 between EWR and Stansted.

So unless I'm flying jumpseat, should I pack myself in a FedEx Envelope, or FedEx Tube for that EWR-STN flight? Oh, and is there meal service?

 Smile  Smile  Smile



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