Starship From South Africa, joined Nov 1999, 1098 posts, RR: 14 Posted (14 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1533 times:
From the BBC today
Monday, 5 June, 2000, 04:48 GMT 05:48 UK
Iran blamed for Lockerbie bomb
The Pan Am bombing killed 270 people
A man claiming to be a senior Iranian intelligence service defector has said that Iran, not Libya, masterminded the Lockerbie bombing.
If true, the allegations could radically affect the trial currently under way of two Libyans accused of being behind the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103.
Ahmad Behbahani also said that Iran was responsible for the 1994 bombing of a Jewish community centre in the Argentine capital Buenos Aires.
Mr Behbahani - who was interviewed in Turkey - told CBS's 60 Minutes programme that until recently he had been responsible for all "terrorist" operations carried out by the Iranian Government beyond its borders.
A baggage container had to be rebuilt in court
CBS quoted him as saying that these operations included the bombing which downed Pan Am Flight 103 above Lockerbie in December 1988, killing all 259 aboard and 11 people on the ground.
Prosecutors in the trial in the Netherlands allege that two Libyans were intelligence agents who planted a bomb in a suitcase onboard Pan Am Flight 103.
Mr Behbahani did not appear in the programme in person, because the CBS producers were prevented by the Turkish authorities from recording an interview.
However, he told them that he himself had first suggested the plan to bomb the Pan Am flight to Ahmad Jibril, who heads a Syrian-backed armed group, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command.
He also said Iran spent 90 days training a group of Libyans for the operation.
The trial in the Netherlands could be radically affected by new evidence
CBS says Iran's motive for the attack was revenge after a US warship shot down a commercial Iranian airliner, killing all 290 passengers aboard.
Iran vowed the skies would "rain blood" after the USS Vincennes shot down an Iran Air flight in July 1988, killing 290.
It was widely assumed at first that Tehran ordered the destruction of the Pan Am airliner with Syrian-sponsored help.
The two Libyans currently on trial have consistently maintained that Syrian-backed Palestinian extremists were responsible for the attack.
CBS said Aboul-Hassan Bani-Sadr, the former Iranian president who has lived for many years in exile in Paris, first alerted the programme makers to what the former intelligence operative had to say.
Mr Bani-Sadr also has a recording of a telephone conversation claiming that the 1994 Buenos Aires bombing was co-ordinated by Ahmad Jibril under direction of Iran.
Officers from the US Central Intelligence Agency spent several hours debriefing Mr Behbahani on Friday and Saturday, 60 Minutes said.
A US official in Washington told CBS: "The government wants to get to the truth of all terrorist incidents, and we do not turn a deaf ear when people offer credible information."
US Secretary of State Madeleine Albright said it was obviously an interesting report, but that she did not want to comment on the specifics because a trial was already in process.
A CBS producer said that Mr Behbahani might be motivated by revenge.
"I traced the tone of someone who was extremely bitter... He had fallen out of favour with the Iranian officials, with the government of Iran, and he just wanted to get back at them, at any cost."
Mr Behbahani said he had lost a power struggle in Tehran before being arrested and escaping.
Amir From Syria, joined Dec 1999, 1254 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (14 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1466 times:
Hi Nick, hope you are doing fine.Thks for the info.
Well, iam not surprised to hear that, it is always the same, whenever a bomb blowes up or a guy is killed, it is alwasy either, Libya, Syria or Iran, so if these countries didn't exist then the world would be safe... they are the source of evil!
I love the way the West thinks about the politcs related to that region. But afterall, this is an aviation forum!
Cedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8243 posts, RR: 54
Reply 2, posted (14 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1455 times:
Syria Iran and Libya are perfectly entitled to defend themselves against Western (and especially US) aggression. It is unfair to the innocent victims but the governments that are supposed to represent these people (whether Pan Am customers or Lockerbie residents) commit acts (such as blowing up an Iran Air jet full of shoppers going to Dubai) that will inevitably result in retribution. If the court in the Hague can try Serbs, Iraqis or whatever, why can't they try Americans, Brits and French?
PA103 was an act of revenge, and I think the world would be a much nicer place without the Pentagon and American politicians and military. Iran, Syria and Libya make no difference to anyone's quality of life outside their own borders - it is America that makes millions of peoples lives a misery.
May I also add that there was a TV documentary shown here in the UK in 1990 that named the PFLP-GC, and more to the point, German officials found a bomb making factory that included a radio-cassette just like the one that contained the Lockerbie bomb, and arrested an entire PLFP-GC cell in Germany in connection with PA103, and they were all released without charge a few days later. This illustrates the fact that we, the normal people, have no idea of the true motivations and plans of governments, and to blame Libya of all things is just crazy. We don't know what went on, and to speculate and point the finger at poor sidelined countries (ie Libya) because Ronald Reagan took a dislike to the head of state (Qadafi) is stupid. Don't fall for it.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
Na From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10869 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (14 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1426 times:
Someone who brings down a plane with 300 innocent people on board is a mass murderer. It doesn´t matter, if the country it comes from made a big mistake before or not. An "eye for an eye" is a foolish way to solve a problem, because it solves nothing, it only creates a new problem.
The USA, the "policeman" of this world, is definetely not always right and I can understand when hate rises in countries that do not obey this "policeman´s" order. But only criminal governments react the way Iran or Lybia reacts or reacted.
Don´t get me wrong: Its good there´s someone in this world who tries to solve problems in areas or countries that cannot take care of themself. Europe´s governments are still not united enough, only the US are powerful enough - but to my understanding they are sometimes too egoistic and don´t try hard enough to understand the people. (But thank god the world´s second policeman, the USSR, has retired.)
The policeman of this world should be the UN, not the US.
Lets wait what comes out of the Lockerbie-Trial now.
Some months ago there was a brilliant piece of journalism about the Lockerbie case in Germany´s "Geo"-magazine (a kind of "National Geographic" magazine), that was already mentioning a lot about what´s going through the press now. Serious doubts about the "Lybian connection" and so on.
LBSteve From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (14 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1424 times:
Add to that all the bloodshed we caused in South America. Astonishingly our government wants to develop a missile shield, which is technically unfeasible and ridiculously expensive. This is just another form of corporate welfare under the guise of 'defense'.
You can believe that it is corporate interests to continue the military industrial complex by way of provoking enemies. That is sick.
Bimmer202 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (14 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1424 times:
I love reading all this anti-american crap on these message boards. When the americans shot down that Iranian plane there were some definate questions about that. I don't trust the Iran government telling me that all those people on board. And I don't think that any government who is sane would retaliate by killing a few hundred people. Yes the americans are aggressive but you have to be to live in a world with all of these wackos.
Who let the billy goats out? No serioulsy, who let the friggin billy goats out? This aint no joke anymore children.
LBSteve From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (14 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1416 times:
Bimmer202 I’m an American and don’t think what I said is necessarily anti-American or “crap” as you put it. It is rather a very unfortunate discourse on the reality our governments (aided and abetted by selfish corporations) global policy. A policy which has profoundly tragic consequences towards ordinary citizens of the world. I challenge you to refute anything that has been thus far to be untrue.
Brissie_lions From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (14 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1415 times:
People in this forum know exactly what my thoughts are on this subject, and I am not going to get dragged into another discussion on this topic, where people will be *offended* by my views on this.
One thing I will say...Bimmer....how are we to believe the UK and US authorities when they say that 280 people died on PA103. Your comment is based purely on the negative view you hold of Iran. The proof of IR855 is in the pudding mate....video footage of the Iranian Navy and fishing boats hauling bodies out of the water. Or are you now going to suggest that this footage was faked by the Iranian authorities to make martyrs out of people who didn't even die. And as far as I am concerned, whether there was 290 people, or only 20 people onboard IR855 (or PA103), it still does not make the situation right. Wackos are everywhere, and yes, including the US...not just a *foreign* phenonomen. Also, as far as I am concerned, aggression causes aggression, so no, the US does not have to be aggressive at all.
BTW....BARNABY.......If you are wise enough to read this posting, let me know if you got the photocopied book that I sent you about a month ago. My new email address is firstname.lastname@example.org and I don't have your details no more due to a virus hitting me a few weeks back.
DeltaAir From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1094 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (14 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1410 times:
We are talking about two totally different sequences of events. The USS Vincinnes believed the Iran Air passenger jet was hostile, and the fact that Iranian gunboats were firing on the American ship at the time only makes it more confusing for the crew to sort out good and bad. The captain made a judgement call, and unfortunately it was the wrong one, but he did have a duty to defend his ship.
Now, Pan Am 103. A Boeing 747-100 enroute over Lockerbie, Scottland. A civilian jetliner, no missles, no nothing that can be positively identified on radar as well as visually. Now, what on earth gives anyone the right to destroy a civilian 747 over friendly territory with a bomb, just because the United States made an accident that it at the time the Airbus should have never been flying over a combat zone without a transponder working? No one.
VirginA340 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (14 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1396 times:
If it was infact someone in Iran that bombed Pan Am 103 I wouldn't be surpised cosidering that someone from a terrorist group had a family member or friend abord Iran Air when it was shot down by our military. I would also not be surprised If Gaddafi himself ordered the bombing considering that during the bombing run of Tripoli Libya that bombs from US plaes landed on a tent city in which Gadafi was supposed to be in. But instead it was his teenaged daughter that was killed and not him. You can imagine the anger of a father that ordered the bombing and not his poloitcal side. In a way you could say that the US was asking for it literally by pissing off Iran by killing 290 of it's citizens and Lybia for killing Gaddafi's daughter who was completly innocent of any of this crazyness. I wish that who ever bombed Pan Am 103 could have blown up the White House along with the Reagan Administration for the stupid decision making that led to PAN AM 103 instead of taking it out on 270 innocent people who were just flying home for the holidays. (including my best friend who I'll never see again) God rest all the passengers' souls of those who died on flight 103.)