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1989 DC10 Emergency Landing  
User currently offlineTinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 6053 times:

Lemme start by saying this is a great site. I've been an addict of the site for a year and finally joined today thus this is my first post so don't be so hard on me.

Anyways, I was watching on CNN the B6 A320 emergency landing @ LAX last week just like half of the people here (I personally think the whole deal was waaaay blown out of proportion with the media coverage and all) and there was this Captain Hearns (or something like that) talking about how he landed a DC-10 on a full emergency back in 1989 with no flight controls whatsoever. He pretty much said to this date he has no idea how they ended up on the runway although Thank God they did. I've been looking for news on that all over the web but cannot find it and I thought someone here must know something about it. Any info on it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineN60659 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 654 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (9 years 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 6037 times:

Quoting TinkerBelle (Thread starter):
Captain Hearns

Capt. Al Haynes.

Here is a good account of the accident:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_flight_232

BTW, welcome.

-N60659



Nec Dextrorsum Nec Sinistrorsum
User currently offlineTinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 6010 times:

Woow! Still cannot fathom landing such a large aircraft using throttle control alone. Thanx for the link.... can"t believe I couldn't find it for a week.

User currently offlinePositiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (9 years 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5878 times:

Quoting TinkerBelle (Thread starter):
he landed a DC-10 on a full emergency

As opposed to a half emergency?  Smile


User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5428 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (9 years 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5807 times:

It was all caught on film too !

NASA has been a lot of testing with controlling airliners by using thrust only, in cases where all hydraulic power is lost.

This has to be one of the 'most' famous crashes....especially since it's all on film.


Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17068 posts, RR: 66
Reply 5, posted (9 years 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5798 times:

Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 2):
Woow! Still cannot fathom landing such a large aircraft using throttle control alone. Thanx for the link.... can"t believe I couldn't find it for a week.

As Bond007 mentions, NASA then managed this in a more controlled fashion (well, they had practiced in a simulator). The objective was to make a system that would allow control with throttles alone to a survivable landing. I think if Haynes and co had had more sensitive throttle control and some practice they would have done even better.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5428 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (9 years 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5788 times:

Yes, they used an MD11

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3957/is_200309/ai_n9277767

Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineJeckPDX From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 255 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (9 years 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5727 times:

Other good sources would be aviation safety network's accident database or www.airdisaster.com which lists accident and incidents by year. I also am told Capt. Al Haynes has his own website, (and also one raising money for a terminal illness his son? has.) Good luck on your search, there is TONS of info out there about this accident and several good books describing the accident in detail from the point of the #2 engine failure until it slammed into the runway at Sioux City.

Welcome to a.net and don't even bother with its most useless feature, the repected users list! Hope to see more of your posts

Cheers

JeckPDX



"Beer is proof that God Loves us and wanted People to be Happy" - Ben Franklin
User currently offlineSeptember11 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3623 posts, RR: 21
Reply 8, posted (9 years 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5713 times:

There are four Airliners.net photos of that fateful United DC-10.

Most recent one (1984):


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Dave Campbell




Airliners.net of the Future
User currently offlineBAe146 From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 161 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (9 years 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 5649 times:

Here's a transcript of a speech about the incident, by Capt. Haynes. It's a very excellent read! http://www.clear-prop.org/aviation/haynes.html

[Edited 2005-09-27 05:28:50]

User currently offlineTinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 4 weeks ago) and read 5585 times:

Thanx JeckPDX... Glad to be here.

User currently offlineLevg79 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 995 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 4 weeks ago) and read 5542 times:

If you're really interested in that crash, I suggest you watch "A Thousand Heroes"
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104020

Here's a link that describes the accident:
http://www.airdisaster.com/special/special-ua232.shtml

I know there's a video of the actual crash somewhere on the net, but I'm too tired to search now.......I'm about to go to sleep.

Hope this helps.

P.S. Welcome to the forum.



A mile of runway takes you to the world. A mile of highway takes you a mile.
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6357 posts, RR: 31
Reply 12, posted (9 years 4 weeks ago) and read 5526 times:
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So far, the best account of this accident I've read comes on the Air Disaster book no. 2 You can get it on Amazon.com if you find it difficult to get in any bookstore.

There are also other recent incidents of planes being flown by their throttles alone, the DHL A300 plane in Baghdad that got shot down is an example.

Another not so recent, is the JAL 123 accident, but in that one only 4 survived.

Welcome to the forum, it's a fantastic site for all airliner lovers. Have fun


User currently offlineTinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 4 weeks ago) and read 5508 times:

Thanx AR385. I'd love to read about the accident in a book format and will look up the book on Amazon. Call me naive but I never thought it possible to fly a big plane on throttle only but I guess coz I'm a new pilot and hopefully I don't ever have to do it unless it's on a sim.

User currently offlineStevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5431 times:

Captain Haynes deserves every ounce of credit for leading his crew and what they accomplished on that day. I don't know how often this is mentioned, but DC-10 Training Check Airman Denny Fitch was riding in first class that day, and was asked to come up to the flight deck by Capt. Haynes to assist and offer input to the problem. It was Denny Fitch I believe who determined that asymmetical power (using the engines to make turns) was the only option to make turns, getting them as close to landing (I think 10 seconds more and they would have had both mains on Rwy. 22) at SUX.

Following the incident, several DC-10 crews tried to recreate the incident, and none got as close to the runway. Some ended up on a highway, others not even that close.


User currently offlineNorthstarBoy From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1851 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 5379 times:
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Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 14):
Following the incident, several DC-10 crews tried to recreate the incident, and none got as close to the runway. Some ended up on a highway, others not even that close.

yeah, i read somewhere that they actually programmed that accident into the UA DC-10 sims, and the closest they ever came was 2 miles from the airport.

it does make you wonder how he did it, some would say he had some "help" from above, if you catch my drift



Why are people so against low yields?! If lower yields means more people can travel abroad, i'm all for it
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6357 posts, RR: 31
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5304 times:
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Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 14):
DC-10 Training Check Airman Denny Fitch was riding in first class that day, and was asked to come up to the flight deck by Capt. Haynes

While I don't believe the word "credit" should be applied to anyone on this case I'd like to make some points.

1. Captain Alfred Haynes did not call up Captain Dennis Fitch. He offered to come up to the cockpit to do whatever was needed.

2. Upon landing (or crashing) the only one on the cockpit not seated, belted or shoulder harness restrained, was Capt. Fitch because he needed to keep working out the throttles. This put him in a bad predicament and he knew it. Among the many miracles on this story, one is the fact that the whole cockpit crew, including Capt. Fitch, in particular, survived.

3. CRM may be rejected or taken up as a joke by many but it is clear that in this case, it had a lot to do with the high survival rate and the excellent handling of the aircraft by the crew. That's why I said at the beginning that the word "credit" did not really apply here.

4. Sioux City itself saved many lives, by having a comprehensive disaster plan that was periodically rehearsed. One city in the South has recently shown how important preparedness is, or the lack of it in that case but I don't want to open a can of worms here.

To this day, although I'm no expert of course, I can't fathom how that plane reached a suitable landing spot, let alone an airport or a runway. It is, really beyond belief. Plus, by being able to reach the airport and put the plane there it made it possible to have a lot of emergency equipment available instantly, a fact that saved many lives, given that 24 of 35 passengers in the centre section who survived the impact itself, died of smoke inhalation on the ground. For certain, if the crew had ditched or landed on a field, this number would have been much greater.

I believe that this was an incredible feat of airmanship by everybody involved that will go down in the history of civilian flying forever, or at least until Star Trek style transport is available.


User currently offlineVunz From Netherlands, joined Jun 2001, 360 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5235 times:

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 11):
I know there's a video of the actual crash somewhere on the net, but I'm too tired to search now.......I'm about to go to sleep.

It's also on Airdisaster.com


User currently offlineTinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5043 times:

Thanx for the video link. Now, did Captain Haynes fly for United again after the accident? Sounds like the crew survived, thanx to great skill and like Captain Haynes himself put it, 'a whole lot of luck'.

User currently offlineRichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4277 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4971 times:

Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 18):
Thanx for the video link. Now, did Captain Haynes fly for United again after the accident? Sounds like the crew survived, thanx to great skill and like Captain Haynes himself put it, 'a whole lot of luck'.

It is my understanding that Capt. Haynes did return to UA to fly again, in DC-10s no less. However, it took a while after the SUX crash and he was close to retirement anyway. I would also like to say that this was not a "emergency landing" or just an "incident" - people died on that flight that day. I think it is safe to call it a crash. Thank God as many survived as they did!

Capt. Haynes is viewed by many as a hero because he did amazing things with very little control over the big jet. Sometimes you only get one shot at a landing attempt and he was lucky even to get that. And, yes, this was one of the first major crashes to be caught on videotape, something that was played over and over again on the late night news back in 1989.

As a side note, he was very much in the news a couple of years back because his daughter was sick (if I remember correctly, she needed a bone marrow replacement or something awful like that). Her odds were not good at finding a donor but Capt. Haynes notoriety helped in getting a lot of people to see if they were a match. I regret that I do not know the outcome of this but I hope that it turned out favorably.



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineTinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4899 times:

You're right Richierich, that was definitely not just an incident or an emergency landing coz a lot of people lost their lives. I honestly didn't know anything about this crash until I heard Captain Haynes talking about it on CNN last week but I guess now I know enough about it. I'm still amazed that one can fly a Cessna on throttle only leave alone a DC-10 full of passengers.

User currently offlineSpacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3630 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4818 times:

I think it is safe to call it a crash.

It's semantics, really, and it changes nothing, but I'd call it a "crash landing". The fact is they did land on the wheels. I think knowing that just makes it an even more impressive feat. They didn't just slam into the ground, as the word "crash" implies. They landed, the gear collapsed, the wing came off, and that's what set off the "crash".

If it wasn't for the phugoid effect, which was worsened by the fact that their ailerons were stuck in the "up" position (a little detail that usually doesn't get much mention), they may have even been able to make a safe landing. They landed so hard because the plane entered one of its phugoid oscillations at exactly the wrong time. So they weren't quite as "lucky" as they could have been. It was *skill* and crew training (including CRM) that got them to the airport; it was *bad* luck that cost those 110 or so lives.



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6357 posts, RR: 31
Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4789 times:
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Quoting Richierich (Reply 19):
Capt. Haynes is viewed by many as a hero

I don't believe there was one single hero in this accident. Granted, Capt. Haynes may be un-intentionally media friendly but the whole crew was a hero. But if I had to choose a hero, I would say it was Capt. Dennis Fitch.


User currently offlineTinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4758 times:

Not sure if anybody really can say one individual was a hero coz after everything I've read and heard about this, the whole crew were heroes in my mind.......but just for the sake of argument, since we're for the most part talking about Captain Haynes here, he is a hero. Big grin

User currently offlineFlyman33178 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4545 times:

wow....

I am feeling a little old now..
UAL DC-10 Sioux City Iowa

Remember it like yesterday!!

That crew saved alot of lives that day.


25 UA772IAD : Question. Do pilots now train for this situation in the simulators? Obviously, what happened to UA232 was such a rare mechanical catastrophe (not sur
26 Birdbrainz : I'm told that everyone (Douglas, UA, NASA, etc. test pilots) who tried it failed. Al Haynes said that phugoids did them in. Apparently, a phugoid is
27 TinkerBelle : I did read captain Hayne's transcript but maybe I'm missing something here. How the heck did they end up on the runway with just throttle control from
28 Richierich : If I had to guess, I'd say no. Obviously pilots train for a lot of scenarios in a simulator but I doubt they specifically train for the environment H
29 Post contains links SLUAviator : Here is link to the summary on the NTSB website. http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001213X28786&key=1
30 N1120A : No, he had help from the back. He had the DC-10 check captain on his flight, so you had 4 experienced DC-10 pilots working in that cockpit. Simulator
31 AR385 : Yes it has, The DHL A-300 shot down in Baghdad is one to come to mind The plane never cartwheeled, the wingtip the engine and the gear hit the ground
32 UA772IAD : True, but the causal circumstances were very different. There is no combat training, in civil aviation (to my knowledge). That plane was SHOT at... t
33 AR385 : I really don't understand your post. Which engines are you talking about that ingested debris? In any case, have you heard of "Unusual Attitude Recov
34 Post contains images CcrlR : I've heard him speak several times and he's been on EVERY news channel talking about the JetBlue incindent and his own with the DC-10. There was a vi
35 Post contains links Av8trxx : It has been done before and to a successful landing with only minor injuries! While UA 232 had the misfortune of having a number 2 uncontained engine
36 Birdbrainz : I sure have made myself clearer. Complete loss of hydrualics is trained for. However, you can't really train for the exact same failure as UA232. How
37 AR385 : What you are saying is what they did. They retrofitted the whole hydraulics system with valves that would automatically close when rate of leakage ex
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