TinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5616 times:
Lemme start by saying this is a great site. I've been an addict of the site for a year and finally joined today thus this is my first post so don't be so hard on me.
Anyways, I was watching on CNN the B6 A320 emergency landing @ LAX last week just like half of the people here (I personally think the whole deal was waaaay blown out of proportion with the media coverage and all) and there was this Captain Hearns (or something like that) talking about how he landed a DC-10 on a full emergency back in 1989 with no flight controls whatsoever. He pretty much said to this date he has no idea how they ended up on the runway although Thank God they did. I've been looking for news on that all over the web but cannot find it and I thought someone here must know something about it. Any info on it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Starlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16340 posts, RR: 66 Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5361 times:
Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 2): Woow! Still cannot fathom landing such a large aircraft using throttle control alone. Thanx for the link.... can"t believe I couldn't find it for a week.
As Bond007 mentions, NASA then managed this in a more controlled fashion (well, they had practiced in a simulator). The objective was to make a system that would allow control with throttles alone to a survivable landing. I think if Haynes and co had had more sensitive throttle control and some practice they would have done even better.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - from Citadel by John Ringo
JeckPDX From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 255 posts, RR: 1 Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5290 times:
Other good sources would be aviation safety network's accident database or www.airdisaster.com which lists accident and incidents by year. I also am told Capt. Al Haynes has his own website, (and also one raising money for a terminal illness his son? has.) Good luck on your search, there is TONS of info out there about this accident and several good books describing the accident in detail from the point of the #2 engine failure until it slammed into the runway at Sioux City.
Welcome to a.net and don't even bother with its most useless feature, the repected users list! Hope to see more of your posts
"Beer is proof that God Loves us and wanted People to be Happy" - Ben Franklin
TinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5071 times:
Thanx AR385. I'd love to read about the accident in a book format and will look up the book on Amazon. Call me naive but I never thought it possible to fly a big plane on throttle only but I guess coz I'm a new pilot and hopefully I don't ever have to do it unless it's on a sim.
StevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4994 times:
Captain Haynes deserves every ounce of credit for leading his crew and what they accomplished on that day. I don't know how often this is mentioned, but DC-10 Training Check Airman Denny Fitch was riding in first class that day, and was asked to come up to the flight deck by Capt. Haynes to assist and offer input to the problem. It was Denny Fitch I believe who determined that asymmetical power (using the engines to make turns) was the only option to make turns, getting them as close to landing (I think 10 seconds more and they would have had both mains on Rwy. 22) at SUX.
Following the incident, several DC-10 crews tried to recreate the incident, and none got as close to the runway. Some ended up on a highway, others not even that close.
NorthstarBoy From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1750 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4942 times:
Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 14): Following the incident, several DC-10 crews tried to recreate the incident, and none got as close to the runway. Some ended up on a highway, others not even that close.
yeah, i read somewhere that they actually programmed that accident into the UA DC-10 sims, and the closest they ever came was 2 miles from the airport.
it does make you wonder how he did it, some would say he had some "help" from above, if you catch my drift
Why are people so against low yields?! If lower yields means more people can travel abroad, i'm all for it
AR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 5481 posts, RR: 26 Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4867 times:
Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 14): DC-10 Training Check Airman Denny Fitch was riding in first class that day, and was asked to come up to the flight deck by Capt. Haynes
While I don't believe the word "credit" should be applied to anyone on this case I'd like to make some points.
1. Captain Alfred Haynes did not call up Captain Dennis Fitch. He offered to come up to the cockpit to do whatever was needed.
2. Upon landing (or crashing) the only one on the cockpit not seated, belted or shoulder harness restrained, was Capt. Fitch because he needed to keep working out the throttles. This put him in a bad predicament and he knew it. Among the many miracles on this story, one is the fact that the whole cockpit crew, including Capt. Fitch, in particular, survived.
3. CRM may be rejected or taken up as a joke by many but it is clear that in this case, it had a lot to do with the high survival rate and the excellent handling of the aircraft by the crew. That's why I said at the beginning that the word "credit" did not really apply here.
4. Sioux City itself saved many lives, by having a comprehensive disaster plan that was periodically rehearsed. One city in the South has recently shown how important preparedness is, or the lack of it in that case but I don't want to open a can of worms here.
To this day, although I'm no expert of course, I can't fathom how that plane reached a suitable landing spot, let alone an airport or a runway. It is, really beyond belief. Plus, by being able to reach the airport and put the plane there it made it possible to have a lot of emergency equipment available instantly, a fact that saved many lives, given that 24 of 35 passengers in the centre section who survived the impact itself, died of smoke inhalation on the ground. For certain, if the crew had ditched or landed on a field, this number would have been much greater.
I believe that this was an incredible feat of airmanship by everybody involved that will go down in the history of civilian flying forever, or at least until Star Trek style transport is available.
TinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 4606 times:
Thanx for the video link. Now, did Captain Haynes fly for United again after the accident? Sounds like the crew survived, thanx to great skill and like Captain Haynes himself put it, 'a whole lot of luck'.
Richierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4137 posts, RR: 6 Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 4534 times:
Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 18): Thanx for the video link. Now, did Captain Haynes fly for United again after the accident? Sounds like the crew survived, thanx to great skill and like Captain Haynes himself put it, 'a whole lot of luck'.
It is my understanding that Capt. Haynes did return to UA to fly again, in DC-10s no less. However, it took a while after the SUX crash and he was close to retirement anyway. I would also like to say that this was not a "emergency landing" or just an "incident" - people died on that flight that day. I think it is safe to call it a crash. Thank God as many survived as they did!
Capt. Haynes is viewed by many as a hero because he did amazing things with very little control over the big jet. Sometimes you only get one shot at a landing attempt and he was lucky even to get that. And, yes, this was one of the first major crashes to be caught on videotape, something that was played over and over again on the late night news back in 1989.
As a side note, he was very much in the news a couple of years back because his daughter was sick (if I remember correctly, she needed a bone marrow replacement or something awful like that). Her odds were not good at finding a donor but Capt. Haynes notoriety helped in getting a lot of people to see if they were a match. I regret that I do not know the outcome of this but I hope that it turned out favorably.
TinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4462 times:
You're right Richierich, that was definitely not just an incident or an emergency landing coz a lot of people lost their lives. I honestly didn't know anything about this crash until I heard Captain Haynes talking about it on CNN last week but I guess now I know enough about it. I'm still amazed that one can fly a Cessna on throttle only leave alone a DC-10 full of passengers.
Spacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3365 posts, RR: 13 Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4381 times:
I think it is safe to call it a crash.
It's semantics, really, and it changes nothing, but I'd call it a "crash landing". The fact is they did land on the wheels. I think knowing that just makes it an even more impressive feat. They didn't just slam into the ground, as the word "crash" implies. They landed, the gear collapsed, the wing came off, and that's what set off the "crash".
If it wasn't for the phugoid effect, which was worsened by the fact that their ailerons were stuck in the "up" position (a little detail that usually doesn't get much mention), they may have even been able to make a safe landing. They landed so hard because the plane entered one of its phugoid oscillations at exactly the wrong time. So they weren't quite as "lucky" as they could have been. It was *skill* and crew training (including CRM) that got them to the airport; it was *bad* luck that cost those 110 or so lives.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
I don't believe there was one single hero in this accident. Granted, Capt. Haynes may be un-intentionally media friendly but the whole crew was a hero. But if I had to choose a hero, I would say it was Capt. Dennis Fitch.
TinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4321 times:
Not sure if anybody really can say one individual was a hero coz after everything I've read and heard about this, the whole crew were heroes in my mind.......but just for the sake of argument, since we're for the most part talking about Captain Haynes here, he is a hero.