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How Come No One Has Got The MD-10 Upgrade?  
User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3751 times:

To date the MD-10 conversion/upgrade has only got one costumer and that has been FedEx (FX)  candle . How come no one else has brought it and why???  Confused . Maybe there are some potential customers??? like NW,JL, Biman but the foremost two are retiring there birds soon. Can someone help me out on this please???

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-Devan  airplane 


http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineEatmybologna From France, joined Apr 2005, 412 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3691 times:

MD90fan,

what exactly does the conversion/upgrade entail. Is it a DC-10 to MD-10 changeover?

Thanks,

e-m-b



Isn't knowledge more than just the acquisition of information? Shouldn't the acquired information be correct?
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26196 posts, RR: 76
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3659 times:

The reason FX did the MD-10 conversion is because they have large fleets of both MD-11s and DC-10s and wanted to have a common type rating among them so they didn't have to fly around with a third pilot. As a cargo carrier, they are able to fly older aircraft up to the last cycle as cargo doesn't care how old the plane is and they can charge basically whatever they want for fuel surcharges, as the whole industry will follow suit. Passenger carriers don't operate nearly the same sized fleets and are generally at the end of the life span for their DC-10s. This means there is little point in spending the millions on conversion, as there will not be a good ROI


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3649 times:

First, I think FedX owns the STC to the MD-10 conversion, so if another operator wanted do the conversion, they would need to pay FedX. Second, with so few DC-10's left flying in commercial service and their limited life span left in commercial service, the cost savings is not there to do it for the airline.

[Edited 2005-09-27 15:47:01]


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26196 posts, RR: 76
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3617 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 3):
First, I think FedX owns the STC to the MD-10 conversion, so if another operator wanted do the conversion, they would need to pay FedX.

Last I checked, SR Technics were the ones who do the conversion, not FedEx, so it is not only available to FedEx

Quoting Eatmybologna (Reply 1):
what exactly does the conversion/upgrade entail. Is it a DC-10 to MD-10 changeover?

Basically, the conversion is one to change the DC-10 cockpit from a fully analog, 3 crew flight deck to an EFIS glass flight deck with 2 crew. This cockpit is pretty much identical to that of the MD-11 and allows a common type rating (though many have said that the differences in flying dynamics between the two types are so great that they should still not have a common type rating)



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3542 times:

Quoting Eatmybologna (Reply 1):
MD90fan,

what exactly does the conversion/upgrade entail. Is it a DC-10 to MD-10 changeover?

Well N1120 beat me to it. But yeah basically it is a cockpit upgrade available for the DC-10.



http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3524 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 4):
Last I checked, SR Technics were the ones who do the conversion, not FedEx

I never said FedX did the conversion, just that I thought they owned the STC on it. When the program first started in 1997, the planes were sent out to Goodyear, AZ. I was in Amarillo, TX when FedX started flying the retired AA DC-10's out of there to be converted. I also did a search and found that FedX owns an STC that allows them to convert their DC-10's to an 'EFIS' flight Deck. It's dosn't say a lot, but this might be it.

[Edited 2005-09-27 16:32:09]


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26196 posts, RR: 76
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3497 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 6):
Quoting N1120A (Reply 4):
Last I checked, SR Technics were the ones who do the conversion, not FedEx

I never said FedX did the conversion, just that I thought they owned the STC on it. When the program first started in 1997, the planes were sent out to Goodyear, AZ. I was in Amarillo, TX when FedX started flying the retired AA DC-10's out of there to be converted. I also did a search and found that FedX owns an STC that allows them to convert their DC-10's to an 'EFIS' flight Deck. It's dosn't say a lot, but this might be it.

FedEx may have an STC for the conversion, but that doesn't preclude others from applying for the same.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3434 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
FedEx may have an STC for the conversion, but that doesn't preclude others from applying for the same.

....and I never said other airlines are precluded from performing the conversion. Only that since FedX owns the STC, they must pay FedX a fee to use the STC. This is the same with the CFM-56 powered DC-8's. UPS bought the STC from the company that first started it. If you now want to convert your DC-8 to CFM-56's, you better call UPS and break out the check book.

[Edited 2005-09-27 17:13:08]


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3219 times:

Does anybody know if Omni Air Int'l (OY),Ceilos de Peru (A2), DAS Cargo(WD) might be potential costumers because they all operate a number of DC-10's???


http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5900 posts, RR: 40
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3203 times:

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 9):
Does anybody know if Omni Air Int'l (OY),Ceilos de Peru (A2), DAS Cargo(WD) might be potential costumers because they all operate a number of DC-10's

I would say, no because the fleets are to small.

regards
Avianca



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3177 times:

I wonder if the USAF would look into this for their KC-10 fleet. Although, I somehow doubt it...

User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3162 times:

Quoting Avianca (Reply 10):

I would say, no because the fleets are to small

I was thinking that when I posted because maybe these operators dont want to spend money on these aircraft as they may be replaced soon, with newer,more modern aircraft. But maybe the USAF will get some sort of avionics upgrade and/or engine up grade in the future sort of like what the Netherlands AF got Fokker to upgrade the cockpits oon their ex. UA KC/DC-10



http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently offlineHAJFlyer From Switzerland, joined Sep 2005, 1472 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3004 times:

OT:

Does anyone know whether the B727-100 conversion that UPS carried out (equipping the planes with RR Tay engines instead of PW JTD8s) worked out for them from an economical perspective ?


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Considering that a substantial number of these aircraft are now parked in Roswell one would assume that UPS is not thoroughly satisfied with the performance of the B727-100 (QF)

Why did no other airlines with sizable B721 fleets (e.g. Amerijet)follow suit ?


User currently offlineLifelinerOne From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1907 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2859 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 4):
Last I checked, SR Technics were the ones who do the conversion, not FedEx, so it is not only available to FedEx

Stork Aerospace will be updating the Royal Netherlands Air Force's 2 KDC-10's and DC-10-30CF into a "glass" 2-men cockpit.

Cheers!  wave 



Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
User currently offlineTod From Denmark, joined Aug 2004, 1721 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2824 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
FedEx may have an STC for the conversion, but that doesn't preclude others from applying for the same.

Technically it does not preclude anyone else from applying for an STC, but in practical terms it may be cheaper to pay FedEx a royality than to seek your own STC.


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