Legacytravel From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1067 posts, RR: 2 Posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 10664 times:
I have a email here from a friend at NWA in MKe that states that NWA is outsourcing 30,000 jobs and the rest are taking a $5.00 across the board paycut. NWA will only have eemployees at MSP, DTW, MEM. I left this persons name off of the email to protect his identity.
Today Northwest Airlines announced that they will be laying off or transferring 30,000 Employees Doug Steenland wants to cut Nw spending buy ruffly 40% so he is getting ride off all employees in the U.S. excluding these Airports Msp,Dtw,and Mem Nw gave it's Employees one of 2 option transfer to hub or get layed off. Ramp pay was cut by about 5.00$ Northwest is hiring a company to run all U.S. airports excluding the ones I've stated. This means many families including my own are moving to Tennessee,Michigan,Minnesota, or a foreign Country. the date for the employees decision id ruffly June 30th I have not heard what will happen to then rest of the good people here at Northwest but I will update as soon as I can
and could you add all of us here at Northwest Milwaukee would like to thank the fine people here at Northwest for their hard work and high spirits and may God be with you
Mark email me and I'll try to provide you with more info about this devastating day in Nw history .
I wish nothing but the best for the affected families.
UAL Bagsmasher From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 2130 posts, RR: 11 Reply 1, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 10590 times:
If this is true, then I give it about 30 minutes for the Airliners.net armchair CEO's to praise this move by NW. Any move by an airline that cuts the wages, benefits, and quality of living of its workforce seems to be the best thing since sliced bread according to the majority of members on this forum. As long as the shareholders reap their bounty, and the "executives" get their golden parachutes, all is right with the world...
Jetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7336 posts, RR: 52 Reply 2, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 10523 times:
Hrmm, i'm somewhat skeptical about this. I don't doubt that NW would do something like this, but if it was announced today, why are there no news sources reporting it? There's nothing on RADAR about it. What time was this allegedly announced?
Legacytravel From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1067 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 10478 times:
Quoting UAL Bagsmasher (Reply 1): If this is true, then I give it about 30 minutes for the Airliners.net armchair CEO's to praise this move by NW. Any move by an airline that cuts the wages, benefits, and quality of living of its workforce seems to be the best thing since sliced bread according to the majority of members on this forum. As long as the shareholders reap their bounty, and the "executives" get their golden parachutes, all is right with the world...
I agree with you in this case UAL bagsmasher. While I agree with getting rid of AMFA. I totally disagree with this move. I for one will not fly NWA again. I hope that they just go away. ALA Eastern or Pan Am. (nothing against the level headed and hard working employees at NWA.
Also keep in mind that I am taking his word that this email is legit and not a fraud. I have known him for awhile and he has never screwed around with me.
UAL I will be flying with UA in the couple of weeks to vegas.
RJNUT From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1166 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 10392 times:
why would anyone transferer to a hub......i think at that point its safe to say ..enroll/ in job retraining programs in your local towns....dont drink Koolaid and move to MEM or DTW
I am kinda hoping NW goes away at this point.....The have quickly become a huge nuisance to their employees, customers and their communities....really no more need for the a==holes....( Oh but your right,,their brilliant officers have the best parachutes,,so they must be enticed to stick around!!)
Ejmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 10336 times:
Although this is bad for the NW employees, I havn't heard any better ideas to get NW profitable again. When I found out that pre-AMFA Strike airplane cleaners were making 45K a year, I knew they had serious labor problems.
All I ask, and have always asked for (and never really recieved on this message board) is a better plan to save NW without having to do things like this.
Everyone wants to bash NW, but nobody has any real answer to a "better way" of doing it.
Sad day for the employees. However, it is a sign that NW is actually going to be around for a while.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
EA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 12559 posts, RR: 64 Reply 7, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 10287 times:
What a load of hooey! While I believe that EVENTUALLY - perhaps 20 years from now - you'll see legacy carriers outsourcing their above-the-wing services at smaller stations and only having their own employees at hubs and focus cities, the scenario outlined in this email is FAR too aggressive, even for NW.
And frankly, it won't work. Can you imagine telling 30,000 employees they can transfer to the hubs and exercise bumping rights? The coordination of such an undertaking would be so completely overwhelming that NW would easily spend a few years getting it done - during which time the inevitable service disruptions would tarnish them severely.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
I would say that that is a wish list of the full threats NW will use to unions.
They will want full speed despite how very little time and importance they alloted for negotiations in the last year. On average only 6 days a month were given to IAM leading up to the BK filing.
And we have been getting rumors about the hubs only scheme for awhile. I'm sure they will pattern it after what DL uses by starting their own 3rd party contractors like Delta Ground Services. 20 years - I wish Closer to 20 months
[Edited 2005-09-28 04:09:25]
[Edited 2005-09-28 04:12:42]
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
Azstar From United States of America, joined May 2005, 541 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 10124 times:
It could be true. Remember, this is a brutal company which will spend millions flying unprofitable routes to keep competition out of its territory(e.g. daily Airbus FAR-LAS in response to Allegiant twice weekly service), and to intimidate its workforce, regardless of monetary cost.
Bmiexpat From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 175 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 10079 times:
Quoting RJNUT (Reply 5): I am kinda hoping NW goes away at this point.....The have quickly become a huge nuisance to their employees, customers and their communities....really no more need for the a==holes
Quoting Legacytravel (Reply 3): I for one will not fly NWA again. I hope that they just go away.
By "going away" I assume you mean go under? That will do the employees a lot of good won't it. I'm sure transfering to a handling company at their place of work would be preferable to most employees than being layed of because their company goes under. And I'm sure that if everyone took the view that they are not going to fly NWA again then NWA is likely to go under even quicker!
Gnomon From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 10060 times:
One reason I find this so hard to believe -- cutting *thirty thousand* jobs -- is that outsourcing agreements in some cases can actually be more expensive than keeping the work in-house. After all, the source firms have the same fixed costs that NWA would have in employing such large masses of people -- and they, like NWA (arguably), are in business to make a profit.
So like many others, I'll believe this one when it's a press release from NWA or when I read it in a reputable paper.
Commavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 10190 posts, RR: 62 Reply 13, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 10007 times:
Quoting UAL Bagsmasher (Reply 1): If this is true, then I give it about 30 minutes for the Airliners.net armchair CEO's to praise this move by NW. Any move by an airline that cuts the wages, benefits, and quality of living of its workforce seems to be the best thing since sliced bread according to the majority of members on this forum.
Sorry, but I don't think its heartless, but rather realistic, that non-hub ramping is no longer a vital inhouse function for most airlines. That's reality, and I don't understand why you find it so personal. The reality is that airlines simply must be cost competitive. People continue to act as if the greedy, evil management are just firing everybody, exacting huge wage cuts, and then pocketing it for themselves. Now, granted -- UAL Bagmasher -- I'm not going to argue that there are some greedy CEOs in this industry who have definitely done their share of mooching off of their employers over the years, but in today's day and age -- this is simply the way the market is going. Customers are telling airlines again and again that it's all about price, price, and price. And this comes at a time when fuel costs are at an all-time high. When that is the way consumers (and the market) are behaving, there's only so many places the airline can cut before it has to cut people. It's terrible, it's painful and it is extremely unfortunate. Believe me -- I sympathize with all the people who may get laid off at DL, NW and elswhere. But again, the market has basically determined for the airlines (no, it really isn't their choice, it's the customers') that ramp people in non-hub stations are pretty much not worth their salaries anymore and thus need to be outsourced to keep costs low. It's harsh, I know, but that is the way the market is moving.
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 8): What a load of hooey! While I believe that EVENTUALLY - perhaps 20 years from now - you'll see legacy carriers outsourcing their above-the-wing services at smaller stations and only having their own employees at hubs and focus cities, the scenario outlined in this email is FAR too aggressive, even for NW.
Agree completely. I do firmly believe that maybe 10-20 years from now, airlines will no longer do below-wing (and maybe above-wing) stuff in-house at non-hub (or at least non-major operation) stations. However, I don't think any airline is moving that way in the near future, including NW.
Bmiexpat From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 175 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 9989 times:
Quoting Gnomon (Reply 13): After all, the source firms have the same fixed costs that NWA would have in employing such large masses of people
However, by having a local handling company doing your ground work, it introduces competitive tendering into the equation. It's not a nice process for any company to go through, but it is the way forward for airlines who need to reduce their costs. It was done by bmi in the UK in 2000, when about a third of employees were outsourced to Aviance. The idea is that the ground handling companies can reduce costs through economies of scale, offering their services to more than one airline and therefore more efficiently using their resources, and then passing these savings on to the airlines by lowering handling costs, something that airlines on their own cannot manage.
I do admit though that in bmi's case it was a lot easier because the numbers were smaller, and it did result in nasty strike action in Dublin. The logisitcs of outsourcing 30,000 staff would be a nightmare!
Isitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 26 Reply 16, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 9939 times:
30,000 people affected? This is now causing me to rethink my deep allegiance to Northwest Airlines. This is not the way put the company back on track to a profitable future. I have three trips confirmed on NW and a slug of miles socked away. I am in the process of booking an OCT trip to South Carolina. I was caught between NW, CO and DL. With this news, NW was eliminated.
I just hope this is a rumor because if I should read about this change in personal in tomorrows paper, I will send letters to the NW board objecting to the path its leadership is now on. I think all my airline friends fellow posters on airliners.net should and will do the same.
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
AviatorTJ From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1838 posts, RR: 8 Reply 17, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 9931 times:
Quoting Bmiexpat (Reply 12): By "going away" I assume you mean go under? That will do the employees a lot of good won't it. I'm sure transfering to a handling company at their place of work would be preferable to most employees than being layed of because their company goes under. And I'm sure that if everyone took the view that they are not going to fly NWA again then NWA is likely to go under even quicker!
I think they would rather transfer to the company that comes around when NWA hits the road. Theoretically, it sounds better for the employee and the consumer.
Bmiexpat From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 175 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 9888 times:
Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 17): I was caught between NW, CO and DL. With this news, NW was eliminated.
I really don't understand this mentality. If a company has to outsource staff to stay in business then so be it. If everyone decides not to fly with them because they do this then they will go out of business. This surely is the worst case scenario for all staff, both employed by NWA and outsourced.
Is it really the case that whether an airline has in-house ground handling matters more that price, punctuality, service etc.... to you when deciding who to fly with.
Outsourcing of handling, both below and above wing, at non hub stations is happening all over Europe, it's only a matter of time before it happens in the USA.
Isitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 26 Reply 21, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 9849 times:
It not my job to decide how NW becames profitable. Im just a dumb Pax, EJMMSU. Its the leaders of that company to decide HOW to do it. I used to work for them years ago so I feel an allegiance. Now, I will sit back and see IF this is true or false. The few airline news sites which I have read,(not airliner.net), so far, see no mention of changing personnal but I did find they want to park some CRJ's.
You don't need to have a plan B if you don't like plan A.
You just sit in the stands and BOO, ok?
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
Jano From Slovakia, joined Jan 2004, 814 posts, RR: 4 Reply 22, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 9855 times:
I still have 3 flights on NW this year. TYS-VIE 2x and TYS-FLL 1x. As always I'll decide if I keep flying NW* based on on-time performance, NW staff here in TYS, and on board and ground service I'll be getting.
*I have not flown anyone else in 5 years with an exception of one award flight on AF
Centrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3597 posts, RR: 21 Reply 24, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 9808 times:
In my U.S. Home airport CWA, when I was young it was always a joke about the staff there.
No one was really an NW or UA or whatever staff. They were the same people. There were about 20 people at CWA. Check in was by the same people and loading the plane...same people...boarding...same people. So Judy would check you in and when everyone was checked in, she threw on a jacket went outside and put the bags on the plane. Then came in and did the boarding process. It was kind of funny. Its different now but back then..it was normal.
Now moving them all to MSP, MEM or DTW is just not logical. Let's say that even 20% choose to do this. I would think most would just be sitting around. If NW really wants to do this, they should be a little more compasionate. At least give career consultations to the ones that will be laid off. Try and get the outsource company to at least do job interviews with people who will loose their jobs in those markets. It would give them a good image as "an airline that made a difficult choice but at least they cared about their employees and their families" (even if they really don't seem to).
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
25 UAcosCS: That is sad you thought that was funny. She was trying to make a living, and you thought it was funny.
26 1MillionFlyer: He wasn't slamming her. He was having fun with the fact that she changed jackets and boarded for multiple airlines, why is that sad?
27 777Purser: Agreed. I feel bad for the employees but at this point NWA practices with their labor groups are just non sense. I just hope executives don't run awa
28 Braniff727: Yeah, I'm going to have to call BS on this. From what I'm understanding from the email is that they are cutting all IAM represented workers at non-hub
29 1MillionFlyer: For the 1,000th time, An airline in bankruptcy is basically under the supervision of a trustee appointed by the court and to some degree the creditor
30 Bmiexpat: And I'm sure they will be looking very closely at how this pans out for NWA. If it works then no doubt when the other airlines need to find the sourc
31 1MillionFlyer: Laying off 75% of your employees would be a cost increase. This topic is ludacris, and I don't mean the rapper.
32 Sean-SAN-: Someday the legacy airlines will realize that the REAL, PROFITABLE airlines take responsibility for their operations and have their own employees: Sou
33 Bmiexpat: I too have my doubts about the figures in the original post, I'm just commenting on the issue of outsourcing. Outsourcing this amount of employees is
34 Ken777: If paychecks have to be cut then management should take the first cut - equal to the largest percentage the workers have to take. The old boys wouldn'
35 M404: After talking to some employees tonight after coming off work they said a memo had been posted detailing the amount of money NW wants as cuts from eac
36 Commavia: Agree 150%. If airline CEOs expect their employees to take up to 40% paycuts, then they should be willing to taken even larger ones, especially consi
37 Schipholjfk: Please... someone send this person back to basic English 101 class! Roughly... not ruffly. Why can't anyone put a simple sentence together anymore? A
38 Squid: No, not exactly. NWA management should not take paycuts, they are management. This is how NWA is going to retain and attract valuable people to their
39 AZFLYER84: The troubles seem to continue at NW..first no pillows..no magazines...cutting service to certain cities..adding rj's..cutting the workforce...what's n
40 B707Stu: Here's my 2 cents. Whether this rumor is fact or fiction it is a likely scenario. All one has to do is look at the major airports of Europe to see out
41 Fleet service: Well, here's what NWA is asking for from the IAM represented groups: http://iam143.org/nw_bankruptcy_term_intro.htm 5% paycut for the duration of the
42 An-225: I think that this post is a load of bullshit, plain and simple. Look at the guy's profile - he claims to be 36-45, yet his spelling and grammar is on
43 Flyguyclt: What I am realy laughing about is a $5 an hour paycut. HECK, that would be great considering what is on the table for a 16 year flight attendant. And
44 GlobeTrekker: Outsourcing is pretty common in Europe. It amazes me sometimes at how many sations around the world US carriers do self-handling. Even at a small stat
45 GSPSPOT: I just don't see how employees who aren't NW employees can be loyal and actually CARE about NW and/or its passengers, or their jobs. What are they act
46 TL8490: Has anyone considered that NW seems to be dumping unions to look similar to Delta???? If this "rumor" is true....the next group to be targeted would b
47 Aa777flyer: I really hope it is not true. It could send shockwaves through the rest of the industry, and other carriers could follow. Personally, IMHO I dont thin
48 Legacytravel: This apparently must be approved by th BK judge overseeing the NWA Chapter 11. Here is another email: Northwest Airlines CEO Doug Steenland wants to o
49 Bobnwa: Could your friend please produce the announcement by Northwest. Why is he the only Northwest person who has seen this announcement?
50 1MillionFlyer: Yes thats how BK works. Also, this is another very poorly written email so I would question the source . Any real communication by a professional wou
51 Legacytravel: Here is some more info: just to address some of the skeptics managers in only a few stations were made aware of this and it's not on radar bcz it was
52 Tjwgrr: That makes so much sense NW "goes away" and the balance of their employees, (including my neighbor an A320 captain) lose their jobs..... Tell people
53 777Purser: It does not cease to amaze me..we are talking thousands of job s lost, steep cuts in wages....and here some one goes whining "no pillows...no magazin
54 Shenzhen: When an airline contracts to lowest bidder, then does it again and again after each contract ends... the writing is on the wall.... Bye bye Northwors
55 Lufthansa747: It amazes me too, and doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Even at Helsinki, Finnair's hub, they don't have their own ground staff. They were all trans