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Frankfurt "Main", What's In A Name?  
User currently offlineLH526 From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 2369 posts, RR: 14
Posted (8 years 12 months ago) and read 7758 times:
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Hi (and sorry Sören that I beat you to that topic )

Just recently Sören (Birdwatching) and myself (LH526) had the following discussion and thought we should shed some light on a little known fact:

Most of us know that the official name of Frankfurt airport is 'Flughafen Frankfurt Main'. Well, most english speakers refer to the term 'main' as 'first', 'highest' or 'most important'. So, as in 'main station', the name 'Frankfurt Main airport' gives hint to the fact that it leads the list of frankfurt airports with 'secondary' airports in it's wake (like Hahn SCNR)
So, how many actually know that 'Main' is the name of the river that flows through Frankfurt and that the official name of Frankfurt is "Frankfurt am Main" simmilar to "New York on the Hudson"? It's not the main airport, but 'Main' simply is a name, not a adjective.

Mario
LH526

[Edited 2005-09-28 03:35:02]


Trittst im Morgenrot daher, seh ich dich im Strahlenmeer ...
58 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6485 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (8 years 12 months ago) and read 7739 times:

Well, Frankfurt-am-Main is in contrast to Frankfurt-am-Order.


When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineMNeo From Bulgaria, joined Mar 2004, 776 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (8 years 12 months ago) and read 7739 times:

Wow i actually didnt know that. I thought FRA as JFK and then the other airports like ISP and HPN. Thus the "MAIN" factor


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User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29800 posts, RR: 58
Reply 3, posted (8 years 12 months ago) and read 7716 times:

Yup, basicly translated to Frankfurt on the Main River, and Frankfurt on the Oder river.

If I remember correctly.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineKanebear From United States of America, joined May 2002, 953 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (8 years 12 months ago) and read 7693 times:

If we went by the same convention in the US it might be Newark Am Hudson and Newark am Delaware.

User currently offlineYegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1726 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (8 years 12 months ago) and read 7689 times:

That's right..There are two Frankfurts in Germany. Main is the river

User currently offlineBHMNONREV From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1374 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (8 years 12 months ago) and read 7674 times:

Quoting LH526 (Thread starter):
Most of us know that the official name of Frankfurt airport is 'Flughafen Frankfurt Main'.

As well as "Rhein-Main Air Base", located on the south side of parallel runways 7/25. Which by the way, Rhein-Main saw its' last military aircraft departure yesterday, a C-17 to Charleston Air Force Base.

With the turnover of Rhein-Main to the German government on October 1st, it will mark the end of U.S. Air Force flight operations at FRA/FRF, clearing the way for much needed airport expansion. With Rhein-Main being my first Air Force duty assignment many moons ago, this brings a few tears to my eye.. crying 


User currently offlineAnsettB727 From Australia, joined Mar 2004, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7611 times:

Kanebear,

It would be, except that AM, as used, here, is not an English word. AM in German means "on the".

This convention is frequently used in the UK, for example: Stratford-upon-Avon, Richmond-on-Thames.


User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7554 times:

And it's not pronounced "main" like "Main Street, USA", but like the word "mine". As stated, it is the name of the river, as there is a Frankfurt on the Oder river.

"AM" is a contraction of "An dem", a particularly vicious little grammatical idiosyncracy of German that I never could master. The three words for "the", der, die, and das (Masculine, feminine, and neuter) as subject (nominative case) become den, die, and das in the accusitive (direct object) case, but become dem, den, and dem in the indirect object case (what's that one called?). As I gave up, certain words always take certain cases, so you just learn to deal with it.

Not bad for twenty years since my last lesson, huh? Big grin



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26499 posts, RR: 75
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7506 times:

Quoting N328KF (Reply 1):
Well, Frankfurt-am-Main is in contrast to Frankfurt-am-Order.

Actually, it is Frankfurt am Main and Frankfurt an der Oder



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineAR1300 From Argentina, joined Feb 2005, 1740 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7471 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 9):
Frankfurt an der Oder

Not on my Atlas....I have Frankfurt-am-Oder too.

Mike



They don't call us Continental for nothing.
User currently offlineArkhem From Ghana, joined Jul 2004, 128 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7449 times:

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 8):
but become dem, den, and dem in the indirect object case (what's that one called?).

Do you mean the dative case?


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26499 posts, RR: 75
Reply 12, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7427 times:

Quoting AR1300 (Reply 10):
Quoting N1120A (Reply 9):
Frankfurt an der Oder

Not on my Atlas....I have Frankfurt-am-Oder too.

Well, it is wrong. It is Frankfurt an der Oder



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineGlareskin From Netherlands, joined Jun 2005, 1307 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7419 times:

I surely knew it's not good enough to be the main airport in Europe! I believe Fraport is not up the the German standard. There is no clear structure and it's partly old and messy. Dark corridors to the parking garages, dirty toilets.

IMO it's a big contrasts with airports like DUS and MUC. Those are very well structured and clean.

So for me it was always obvious: Main must be the dirty river....  twocents 



There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12562 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7409 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 9):
Actually, it is Frankfurt am Main and Frankfurt an der Oder

And doesn't Oder translate to "other"? If so, what's the "other" river - the Rhine?

Inquiring minds want to know...



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7377 times:

The two rivers are the Oder and the Main. Funnily the river Oder is feminin while the Main is masculin.

Therefore gramatically Frankfurt lies "an dem" river Main, what is usually shortened in German to "am". The other Frankfurt lies "an der" Oder. But for this combination is no short form.

The legal name for the greater Frankfurt area and also the official name for the airport is "Rhein-Main". Both are big rivers and the river Main runs through Frankfurt and runs into the greater river Main 20 kilometers down from Frankfurt near Mainz. The city where Bush met Schroeder the last time, but that is another story...


User currently offlineHT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6525 posts, RR: 23
Reply 16, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7297 times:

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 6):
As well as "Rhein-Main Air Base", located on the south side of parallel runways 7/25. Which by the way, Rhein-Main saw its' last military aircraft departure yesterday, a C-17 to Charleston Air Force Base.

see also: Rhein-Main Air Base Closure (by PanAmerican Sep 27 2005 in Military Aviation & Space Flight)

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 15):
the river Main runs through Frankfurt and runs into the greater river Main 20 kilometers down from Frankfurt near Mainz.

Correction: The river Main flows into the river Rhein (aka "Rhine" in English).

Quoting Revelation (Reply 14):
And doesn't Oder translate to "other"? If so, what's the "other" river - the Rhine?

Incorrect. The german word "oder" translates into "or".
BTW, the river "Oder" is called "Odra" in Polish language; it forms the border between Poland and Germany for quite a stretch (before the smaller river Neisse takes over that "honour" further away from the sea ...)

Quoting Glareskin (Reply 13):
There is no clear structure and it's partly old and messy. Dark corridors to the parking garages, dirty toilets.

Agreed for parts of FRA´s T1 only. T2 is totally different.

-HT



Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7258 times:

Aside from all that, the word "Main" can also be used in it's English version: there's always that airport somewhere halfway between here (Frankfurt) and Cologne, out in (almost) the middle of nowhere, that's called Frankfurt Hahn...

So, technically, misunderstanding the name of the river for meaning that it's Frankfurt's main airport wouldn't be all that wrong... then again, in my opinion, Frankfurt simply only has one airport: Hahn isn't Frankfurt... not even close.

Regards,
Frank



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineAirbusA346 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2004, 7437 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7185 times:

I have known Frankfurt am Main stands for, for about five years know.

Cause one day i typed Frankfurt am Main into a translater and it came up with:

'Frankfurt on the Main'

Tom.



Tom Walker '086' First Officer of a A318/A319 for Air Lambert - Hours Flown: 17 hour 05 minutes (last updated 24/12/05).
User currently offlineJush From Germany, joined Apr 2005, 1636 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7179 times:

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 8):
And it's not pronounced "main" like "Main Street, USA", but like the word "mine". As stated, it is the name of the river, as there is a Frankfurt on the Oder river.

"AM" is a contraction of "An dem", a particularly vicious little grammatical idiosyncracy of German that I never could master. The three words for "the", der, die, and das (Masculine, feminine, and neuter) as subject (nominative case) become den, die, and das in the accusitive (direct object) case, but become dem, den, and dem in the indirect object case (what's that one called?). As I gave up, certain words always take certain cases, so you just learn to deal with it.

Not bad for twenty years since my last lesson, huh?

I'm am amazed... You can explain that better than some of the "born here" germans Big grin. You might even speak it better than some of the germans a have to listen to.

But it's rather easy.
am = an dem
im = in dem
Beim = Bei dem
vom = von dem

it's actually always the same rule.
But maybe now you can explain me the use of "albeit". Though i know what the word means i never seem to have a sentence where this word "works".

Regards
jush



There is one problem with airbus. Though their products are engineering marvels they lack passion, completely.
User currently offlineFraT From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 1107 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7087 times:

Quoting Glareskin (Reply 13):
I surely knew it's not good enough to be the main airport in Europe! I believe Fraport is not up the the German standard. There is no clear structure and it's partly old and messy. Dark corridors to the parking garages, dirty toilets.

IMO it's a big contrasts with airports like DUS and MUC. Those are very well structured and clean.

So for me it was always obvious: Main must be the dirty river....

Seems you havn't been to FRA or Frankfurt at all or at least not in the last couple of years.
First of all, FRAPORT is not the name of the airport but the name of the airport operator. The old Terminal 1 is nearly completely renovated and not messy at all. Well, you can argue about the structure but compared to airports of this size (LHR, CDG, JFK) FRA imho is well structured. MUC and DUS are a lot smaller.

And last but not least, the Main river isn't that dirty. You can actually swim in it.


User currently offlineNumberTwelve From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 1431 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7054 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 9):
Actually, it is Frankfurt am Main and Frankfurt an der Oder

Yeah, it's a crazy language - both (Main and Oder) are rivers, but the river Main is male and Oder is female. Anybody knows the reasons for that?

I asume that the female Oder is (like women) incalculable , as we saw during Oder flooding in August, 2002  Wink

Any other reasons?

Quoting Glareskin (Reply 13):
I believe Fraport is not up the the German standard. There is no clear structure and it's partly old and messy. Dark corridors to the parking garages, dirty toilets.

At T1 there was a construction area for the parking garages which made the walk a little uncomfortable. Toilets are dirty when there are people who use them and don't behave and nobody cleans them minutes later.

As FraT wrote: it seems you haven't been to FRA for ages.



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User currently offlineCTRL_ALT_DEL From Ireland, joined Feb 2001, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7007 times:

Another German lesson  Smile
As you can see the German language fails to be consistent concerning the gender of rivers, some being masculine others being feminine. All place names like X_am_river are situated on masculine rivers eg Frankfurt am Main, all those with names like X_an der_river are situated on feminine rivers eg Frankfurt an der Oder (due to he dative "am" and "an der"). There are in fact only 5 major rivers in Germany which are masculine, der Main being one. I'll leave it up to the geography experts to figure out the other 4.


User currently offlineAirevents From Germany, joined Jan 2002, 883 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6998 times:

Well, as far as the arrivals level is concerned, down where the McDonalds is near the railway station, this part of the airport is still pretty ugly.


www.airevents.com
User currently offlineGlareskin From Netherlands, joined Jun 2005, 1307 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6932 times:

Quoting FraT (Reply 20):
Seems you havn't been to FRA or Frankfurt at all or at least not in the last couple of years.

How can I not have been there being Star Alliance gold? Last time was August, previous to that July. Both 2005..  Smile

Quoting NumberTwelve (Reply 21):
Toilets are dirty when there are people who use them and don't behave and nobody cleans them minutes later.

One of my last visits I had to wait pretty long for my connection to DUS. So, instead of just hanging out in the lounges I walked through some different piers and had almost the same impression in different parts.

Quoting FraT (Reply 20):
First of all, FRAPORT is not the name of the airport but the name of the airport operator.

I stand corrected.  footinmouth 

Quoting FraT (Reply 20):
Well, you can argue about the structure but compared to airports of this size (LHR, CDG, JFK) FRA imho is well structured.

Agreed, but a lot of others IMHO look better: to mention a few ORD, ATL, SYD, a lot of Asian airports, and hell, even AMS.... But my point was more that DUS and MUC are very beautiful and well-structured and that the main airport is not as good.

But don't get me wrong. I'm a big fan of Lufthansa and Germany, I'm just not so impressed by FRA...  sorry 



There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...
25 FraT : Hmm, Rhein, Main, Neckar, Inn. But no idea abouth the fifth one...
26 HT : DUS and T2 @ MUC are very new structures; T1 @ MUC was simply overcrowded before T2 opened. T1 @ FRA needs to be considered an old structure (except
27 Post contains images Andreas : It's definitely Frankfurt an der Oder, trust me! If you read the amazingly elaborated statement about der, die, das und dem, den (which absolutely co
28 Glareskin : Respect for that. But still the overall impression (also look at Airevents post) isn't very good.
29 Post contains images Andreas : Erm...you can even be Hon. Circle without ever touching FRA grounds! Funny argument, that... How about "Der Eisbach" in Munich??? Some people swear i
30 Post contains images HT : Still I do agree ! A "Bach" ( = "creek") does not qualify as a river ... -HT
31 Post contains images Andreas : I didn't say that, but a lot of Bavarians would disagree here...and I said "a major river" THE river so to speak....if you happen to be in Munich dur
32 CTRL_ALT_DEL : 1. Main 2. Neckar 3. Inn 4. Regen 5. Rhein (okay, I peeked for this one) P.S. If it weren´t for the "side discussion about FRA´s terminal" this thre
33 Post contains images HansaRostock : "Der Fluss" ??
34 Post contains images LOT767-300ER : Oder=Odra=Lake otter
35 HT : Der Lech ! This one slipped my mind ! So 3 of Germany´s 6 maculine rivers flow their water into the river Donau (aka. Danube like in LNZ´s "Blue Da
36 AirPacific747 : It is similar to Shanghai. In Shanghai it is called Pudong.. I think I heard it means something close to "on the other side of Dong" Dong should be th
37 Andz : "Oder" is the German word for "or" "Bach" I know is a creek, in Freiburg they talk about "Baechle" (little creeks) that run through the streets of th
38 Geo772 : I was aware of this but only recently after I had booked a flight to FRA in december.
39 Meafly : Was fuer Spass...eine deutsche Stunde! Vielen Dank!
40 Post contains images USADreamliner : To all of you: THANK YOU!! Finally I see people exchanging opinions and information in a mature way,without a childlike war. And very informative.It m
41 A3xx900 : Uhm.... "Frankfurt/Oder" is a common term... I think I have never heard some anchorman on TV say "Frankfurt an der Oder". They just refer to it as "F
42 ZRH : It is realy funny, some rivers are masculine but more are feminine. Here in Switzerland we have a lot of rivers: Some examples: masculine: Rhein Inn
43 Post contains images Glareskin : That is only because this is not about Boeing or Airbus... This thread makes me wonder: what would be the ratio of Airbusses to Boeings on FRA? This
44 IRelayer : English is a strange language, so don't expect it to make any sense. But here goes. You would use "albeit" in a sentence such as the following: I fin
45 N328KF : al·be·it Pronunciation: ol-'bE-&t, al- Function: conjunction Etymology: Middle English, literally, all though it be : conceding the fact that : even
46 Dazeflight : just like they like to say Frankfurt Main... it doesn't change the fact that it's wrong. ciao Daniel
47 N1120A : Just like they say Frankfurt Main. Then again, a lot of times, they just say "Frankfurt" and everyone knows it is the one in Hessen
48 HT : Indeed, Frankfurt/Main most often is called only "Frankfurt", while the other Frankfurt is referred to as "Frankfurt/Oder" - this is at least in the
49 Sebolino : Actually I think it's dem, der, dem. Am I wrong ?
50 N1120A : How about the fact that there are 2 Berlins?
51 LH459 : And where is the 2nd one?
52 Air380 : Okay, now please expain why it is "Rothenburg ob der Tauber"? And it is die Tauber, by the way.
53 ZRH : Yes, it is die Tauber (feminine). "Ob der Tauber" means above the Tauber. "Der" in this case is not the masculine article (nominative), it is the fem
54 Tom_EDDF : ... and most native speakers would laugh at you using the genitive this - old fashioned - way. Most people I know would never say or write "mein haus
55 N1120A : It is in Schleswig-Holstein, about 3 hours from the capital
56 Post contains images LH459 : Amazing. I'm from Berlin (the big one that is), and I've never heard of this "other" Berlin! Must be a pretty small place.
57 ZRH : You are right this sounds old fashioned. It is not the genitive but the word "ob". If you said "oberhalb des Strandes" instead of "ob" it would sound
58 ARCJET : Memphis am Mississippi, Charleston am Cooper Pittsburgh am Allegheny Monongahela Columbia am Broad Florence am Pee Dee Tulsa am Arkansas Toledo am Mau
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