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Air France Order 3 More A318s  
User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4217 posts, RR: 89
Posted (9 years 3 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7269 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

From their website, AF have converted 3 of their 10 oustanding Options on A318s into firm orders. Source;

Press Office
45, rue de Paris 95747 Roissy CDG Cedex France
Tél + 33 (0)1 41 56 56 00 - Fax + 33 (0)1 41 56 84 19
site corporate : http ://www.airfrance.com/corporate

N° 4 958
AIR FRANCE EXERCISES OPTIONS ON 3 AIRBUS A318s
______________________________________________________
Fully satisfied with the Airbus A318s it operates that are now an integral part
of the Airbus A320 family of aircraft, Air France has decided to exercise three
of the ten purchase options it has on the A318, the smallest in the A320 family.

Regards, PanAm_DC10


Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 7007 posts, RR: 63
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7217 times:

Giving them a fleet now of, what, 18?

User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4217 posts, RR: 89
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7195 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

Quoting PM (Reply 1):
Giving them a fleet now of, what, 18?

That's right. Including today's 3 that will be 18. 9 delivered and 9 remaining to be delivered between now and Spring 2007. With 7 remaining options.

Regards, PanAm_DC10



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7428 posts, RR: 57
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7171 times:

... and more options will certainly be converted into firm orders soon.

Despite what some people say about the A318 on A.Net, the babybus proved to be an excellent replacement for the B735.

Only 13 B735 are still in service with AF and they will all be phased out by the end of 2006/Early 2007.

The A318 is more adapted to all the AF's medium haul network, particularly the longest routes like CDG-SVO or CDG-ATH that can be operated without restrictions which was not the case with the B735.

The commonalty with the rest of the A320 family is also the source of important saving costs in terms of maintenance, spares, crew qualifications, etc ...

AF is the only airline in the world to operate all the variants of the A320's family. They will soon provide all the AF's needs in terms of capacity for all the short/Medium haul network :
from 123 seats with the A318 to 206 seats (Domestic config.) on the A321.


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Photo © Francisco José Jurado Ariza



User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 7007 posts, RR: 63
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7103 times:

With LAN's recent order, it seems that there is still life in a programme that has often been questioned. Should we assume a modest but steady trickle of orders for the A318?

User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3284 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7088 times:

I know Kingfisher is also looking for smaller a/c - are they considering the A318? That would be rather nice!


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User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7075 times:

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
From their website, AF have converted 3 of their 10 oustanding Options on A318s into firm orders. Source;

This is great news for the A318 program. This follow on order proves that the A318 still has some life in it.

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 3):
Despite what some people say about the A318 on A.Net, the babybus proved to be an excellent replacement for the B735.

It seems to me that all A318 operators only have praise towards the BabyBus.

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 3):
AF is the only airline in the world to operate all the variants of the A320's family.

Iberia will soon be the second to operate all of the A320 family members.

Regards,
Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4217 posts, RR: 89
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7009 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

Quoting PM (Reply 4):
Should we assume a modest but steady trickle of orders for the A318?

Yes and 2005 has been a good year for the A318 with LAN, IB & Air Cairo being 3 new operators to order the model. IB, LAN & AF have all committed to a good amount and will most likely add to their existing commitments. IIRC the A318 has now outsold the 736.

Of interest to me is what demand remains out there which will enable PW to land more orders for the PW6000 to power the bird?

Regards, PanAm_DC10



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineJetMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6982 times:

Quoting WINGS (Reply 6):
Iberia will soon be the second to operate all of the A320 family members.

Well, almost.  Wink
In additional to the four different standard types A318, A319, A320 and A321 AF also operates all subtypes with A320-100 and A321-100.


Regards,
JM


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 7007 posts, RR: 63
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6980 times:

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 7):
Of interest to me is what demand remains out there which will enable PW to land more orders for the PW6000 to power the bird?

They must be hoping they haven't missed the boat! They ran away with the early A318 orders (before Air France created a fuss the A318 was meant to be available only with the PW6000) but we all know how badly things worked out for them.

I'm no engineer but the PW6000 is probably the better engine on the A318. The question is - as you suggest - how many more new customers are there out there who will buy the A318 and choose PW. BA have made that choice once. Might they do so again? And LH?


User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6932 times:

The data concerning orders for the A318 is a little misleading. I did a quick search and came up with the following.

FIRM ORDER,

Air France 15 (+3) (9 delivered)
America West Airlines (US) 15 (still apears on the Airbus order list)
Frontier 5 (5 delivered + 2 leased)
Gecas 12 (10 delivered)
Iberia 10
ILFC 10
TAROM 4
Mexicana (all 8 leased)

PENDING ORDERS,

LanChile ?
Aircairo 6

FUTURE ORDERS (my guess)

Tam
Tap Portugal
PGA Portugalia
Alital
Lufhthansa
Kingfisher
AirCanada
British Airways
Northwest Airlines
Aegan Airlines
Air Newzealand


Regards,
Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4217 posts, RR: 89
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6873 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

Quoting WINGS (Reply 10):
LanChile ?

LAN have 15 Pending A318 orders Wings

I'm not sure AWA/US will take their 15. IIRC they can convert to another model. Excluding them that would put A318 orders at 80 and 736 orders at 78

Regards, PanAm_DC10



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineFrequentflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 736 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6841 times:

I like the baby bus but I never quite understood why its success was somehow limited. Any insights?


Take off and live
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5947 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6815 times:

My information was that AmWest would not be taking ANY A318 aircraft- they converted all to 319s. This happened long ago, about the time that the engine (PW6000) became unavailable, IIRC.

It has been said that Airbus is slow to remove aircraft orders from that webpage. I have no authority to make such a statement.


User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4217 posts, RR: 89
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6783 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 13):
It has been said that Airbus is slow to remove aircraft orders from that webpage. I have no authority to make such a statement.

Thank you AA737-823 that was well said. You will note that I didn't include their 15 in my tabulation in reply #11 for that exact reason. The last press release I saw on this was almost a year ago so, I too, am not sure of the status of those 15 orders. Any clarification would be appreciated.

Regards, PanAm_DC10



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6685 times:

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 11):
LAN have 15 Pending A318 orders Wings

Thanks PanAm, I was not able to find a link as to the break down of their last order.

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 13):
My information was that AmWest would not be taking ANY A318 aircraft- they converted all to 319s.

I also heard the same thing, although I believe that they may have converted some other previous option into firm order and decided to leave the A318 order stand until they could make sure it would live up to its expectations.
They may be waiting to see how the PW6000 turn out?

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 13):
It has been said that Airbus is slow to remove aircraft orders from that webpage. I have no authority to make such a statement.

If thats the case than they are very slow. Maybe they know something that we dont know.

Regards,
Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlineMotif1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 255 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6600 times:

Considering that the A318 is a very new product, has it been updated since 2002?

Regards,
motif1



Not only is this incomprehensible but the ink is ugly and the paper is from the wrong kind of tree
User currently offlineEha From France, joined May 2005, 211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6546 times:

Quoting Frequentflyer (Reply 12):
I like the baby bus but I never quite understood why its success was somehow limited. Any insights?

I believe it makes sense to order it for airlines already operating the rest of the A320 family models. It then makes sense economically speaking (spares, CCQ, dynamic capacity management....).

For the other airlines, the need for this A/C is probably less obvious.

E.


User currently offlineMilan320 From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 872 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6493 times:

Quoting WINGS (Reply 10):
FUTURE ORDERS (my guess)

Tam
Tap Portugal
PGA Portugalia
Alital
Lufhthansa
Kingfisher
AirCanada
British Airways
Northwest Airlines
Aegan Airlines
Air Newzealand

Don't think AC will, as much as I'd like to see the A318 in ACs fleet. They seem to be going the RJ route, with new Embraers these days.
-Milan320



I accept bribes ... :-)
User currently offlineBomber996 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 395 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6374 times:

Does anyone have any figures on how much more efficient the PW6000 is on the A318 vs. the CFM. If I'm not mistaken, I think I read somewhere on these fourms that the A318 with CFM is a much heavier model, mainly due to the weight of the CFM engine itself. How much lighter is the PW version of the A318, and how much less fuel will it supposedly burn with the PW's vs. the CFM's. Wasnt the PW6000 supposed to be what makes the A318 a success?

Peace  box 



AVIATION - A Vacation In Any Town, I Own Nothing
User currently offlineHEGAN From Spain, joined Feb 2005, 211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 6292 times:

Good for the A318 and good for Air France!

I think future A318 operators will be present A320 operators as well. It would be difficult to gain a new client for the A320 family with the 318. The pression of regional jets is very big, and the ERJ's are selling very well.

Let's wait and see who makes the next A318 order.

Agur,
HEGAN



HEGAN: Euskadiko Aeronautikako eta Espazioko Clusterra
User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12898 posts, RR: 46
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 6256 times:
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Airbus' latest order spreadsheet (31st Aug) shows the following for A318:

Orders - 71 (delivered 24)

Air France - 15 (9)
America West - 15
Frontier - 5 (5)
GECAS* - 12 (10)
Iberia - 10
ILFC - 10
Tarom - 4

* 8 delivered to Aeromexico, 2 to Frontier.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana! #44cHAMpion
User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8663 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 6015 times:

Quoting Frequentflyer (Reply 12):
I like the baby bus but I never quite understood why its success was somehow limited. Any insights?

I'm sure someone will provide more details but I think the main problem is that it's too heavy and even though it has less seats it doesn't really provide much in terms of operating savings compared to the A319. That makes them too costly for airlines that don't already have Airbus narrowbody in their fleet.


User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5988 times:

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 22):
That makes them too costly for airlines that don't already have Airbus narrowbody in their fleet.

It seems that this does not seem to be the case for AirCairo and TAROM if am not mistaken.

Regards,
Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlineWhiteHatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5771 times:

Quoting Bomber996 (Reply 19):
Does anyone have any figures on how much more efficient the PW6000 is on the A318 vs. the CFM. If I'm not mistaken, I think I read somewhere on these fourms that the A318 with CFM is a much heavier model, mainly due to the weight of the CFM engine itself. How much lighter is the PW version of the A318, and how much less fuel will it supposedly burn with the PW's vs. the CFM's. Wasnt the PW6000 supposed to be what makes the A318 a success?

PW had major problems with fuel burn on the 6000. The initial BA order for the 318 was converted due to the test engines not performing to guarantee.

As it was offered as the alternative to a heavier and larger IAE V2500 that also created problems at Airbus. Airlines with V2500 powered A320 family aircraft would be les inclined to add the CFM powered A318 to the mix. There are certain factors which would have made the PW6000 and V2500 the natural pairing as Pratt and Whitney would be the common factor.


25 EddieDude : I believe that MX still needs to receive 2 more A318's because the plan was to replace the 10 F100's transferred to Click on a 1:1 basis.
26 Amy : Are any of the A318s ordered so far going to have PW6000 engines?
27 Post contains images A340600 : Great news! I would much prefer an A318 over a cramped ER4 any day! Sam
28 Post contains images Bomber996 : I've heard that the A318's that Lan ordered are PW6000 powered models. Can anyone confirm? Peace
29 Post contains links PresRDC : Yup: http://www.pratt-whitney.com/pr_081705.asp
30 Flashmeister : * 8 delivered to Aeromexico, 2 to Frontier. Unless I'm really mistaken, Aeromexico doesn't operate any Airbii. The A318s from GECAS were delivered to
31 Aerokiwi : NZ will most certainly NOT order the A318. It fits nowhere in the shorthaul fleet, which has gone low cost since 2002. A small, heavy plane that perfo
32 Mariner : Oh. Interesting. It works for Frontier's low cost strategy. Not that I expect Air New Zealand to order any, but for different reasons. cheers mariner
33 Ikramerica : You are mischaracterizing much of the critique of the A318. The critique has always been that the 736/318 didn't make a lot of sense compared to the
34 WINGS : How long has the A318 been flying vs the B737-600 and B717? I believe that both B737-600 and B717 have been flying for longer period of time. But it
35 FlySSC : A318 : First test flight = January 15th 2002 First Commercial flight : July 2003, with Frontier (N801FR) B717 : First commercial flight with Air Tran
36 Fraport : Forget about LH. That won't happen. I guess there won't be an order for any A320-family aircraft at all. They are interested in the Bombarider C-Seri
37 WINGS : Thanks FlySSC for that data, It proves my theory that the B737-600 and B717 have been in comercial service for more 5 years in relation to the A318.
38 Post contains images Scbriml : My bad! These Mexican airlines all look the same to me.
39 Alitalia744 : Guessing that that was supposed to be "Alitalia." They won't be ordering the baby-bus anytime soon. 100 seat sector is planned to be covered by the E
40 Planemanofnz : I think the A318 wouldn't be that bad for NZ maybe they could re-open up some new domsetic jet routes with it, Invercargill or Hamilton????? Although
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