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Amex Witholding Funds From NW  
User currently onlineCOSPN From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1637 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 1 month 4 weeks ago) and read 3351 times:

NWA: AmEx owes $63.4M
Tuesday September 27, 2:36 pm ET

Northwest Airlines Corp. has asked a bankruptcy judge to force American Express Corp. to pay it $63.4 million that Northwest says it is owed by the credit card company.
In court filings, Northwest (Pink Sheets: NWACQ - News) said the money represents payments by American Express (NYSE: AXP - News) cardholders to purchase airline tickets, and that American Express was withholding part of the payments due to Northwest. The Eagan-based airline, which filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection Sept. 14, said the funds were vital to its reorganization and requested the court issue a temporary restraining order against American Express to pay the carrier.

Published September 27, 2005 by The Business Journal

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline777Purser From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 219 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 month 4 weeks ago) and read 3326 times:

"You need to pay us even if we don't pay anyone else..." I am just tired of hearing from NWA specially the way they are treating their employees.

User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7681 posts, RR: 17
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 month 4 weeks ago) and read 3311 times:

If Amex owes Northwest but will not pay them it suggests that Amex are owed money by NW. Are NW a lessor of one of the small number of aircraft owned and leased by Amex? If not I would guess there is some other payment due from Amex to NW that NW was hoping to get relief from by going into Chapter 11 Protection.

If this is right does anyone know what the legal situation is? Can a company that is both a creditor and debtor to another company in Chapter 11 Protection refuse to discharge a debt equal to what it is owed?


User currently offline1millionflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 month 4 weeks ago) and read 3293 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 2):
it suggests that Amex are owed money by NW.

Each airline that has an agreement with the various card merchants must ensure a certain reserve is met for refunds, etc. I would bet NW is not living up to their card service agreement with Amex


User currently offlineMidway7 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3203 times:

Quoting 1millionflyer (Reply 3):
Each airline that has an agreement with the various card merchants must ensure a certain reserve is met for refunds, etc. I would bet NW is not living up to their card service agreement with Amex

I wouldn't be so sure the fault lies with Northwest. I have read that credit card companies have been holding more reserve $ from airlines lately, in case one ceases operations and ticket holders who paid by credit card seek refunds as part of their card holder agreements. The most extreme case I heard was with ATA, if I recall correctly, they were not getting any money from the credit card companies until all charged travel took place.

It could be that AMEX has imposed such a policy on NW, and we all know that credit card companies love changing the terms and conditions of agreements without bilateral consent. NW could be balking at such a thing, and I would not put it past AMEX - they are bastards.


User currently offline1MillionFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3156 times:

Quoting Midway7 (Reply 4):
past AMEX - they are bastards.

It's the golden rule - "He who has the gold rules"

I run about 80,000 a year for travel through my AMEX I love them  Smile


User currently offlineMarshalN From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2005, 1521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3085 times:

I love Amex, and to be fair, they're just making what looks to be the best business decisions to them. They wouldn't withhold money for no reason (they'd get sued for it, if nothing else). Clearly there's a risk for them if they pay now and can't get the money back in case something happens, methinks.

Has similar appeals ever been made by UAL or US when they went into bankruptcy? I think we might be seeing a sign of desperation from NWA.


User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3022 times:

Quoting Midway7 (Reply 4):
NW could be balking at such a thing, and I would not put it past AMEX - they are bastards.

Right...... we're such "bastards" that we lent how many hundreds of millions of dollars to Delta 2 weeks ago??

What's your name Midway7?? If we're bastards, perhaps you would be better serviced by a different card issuer. I'd be happy to assist you in that transition.



An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26708 posts, RR: 75
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2988 times:

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 7):
Right...... we're such "bastards" that we lent how many hundreds of millions of dollars to Delta 2 weeks ago??

Over $600 million all told



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineMidway7 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2988 times:

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 7):
What's your name Midway7?? If we're bastards, perhaps you would be better serviced by a different card issuer. I'd be happy to assist you in that transition.

Since you claim to represent AMEX, maybe you can explain what is going on with this situation.

There is no need for my name - I don't do business with AMEX. I wouldn't give AMEX the pleasure.

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 7):
Right...... we're such "bastards" that we lent how many hundreds of millions of dollars to Delta 2 weeks ago??

The future will tell whether this was a sound business decision.


User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 52
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2893 times:

Quoting Midway7 (Reply 9):
Since you claim to represent AMEX, maybe you can explain what is going on with this situation.

Actually, no, I cannot. The only official source of information on this matter is our designated spokesperson. I'd be happy to refer you to him though.

Quoting Midway7 (Reply 9):
There is no need for my name - I don't do business with AMEX. I wouldn't give AMEX the pleasure.

LOL... obviously, you didn't meet the requirements for Card Membership.



An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineBraniff727 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 686 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2870 times:

Quoting MarshalN (Reply 6):
Has similar appeals ever been made by UAL or US when they went into bankruptcy? I think we might be seeing a sign of desperation from NWA.

I disagree, Northwest hasn't even tried to get DIP loans, etc. NW appears to have sought Chapter 11 protection solely to restructure. At their last filing they had $1.7 billion on hand.

If there was a company in Chapter 11 that I wouldn't pay if I was in American Express' situation, it wouldn't by Northwest, rather Delta.



Climbing
User currently onlineCOSPN From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1637 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2745 times:

Another RUMOR is kicking around that NRT and Everything West of HNL will Close down...NRT Slots sold off and park all Widebodys except A330 for SEA/NRT-AMS PDX-NRT

User currently offlineMidway7 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2703 times:

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 10):
Actually, no, I cannot. The only official source of information on this matter is our designated spokesperson. I'd be happy to refer you to him though

TWFirst - if this is the case, why did you comment in the first place?


User currently offlineJAXFLL From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 93 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2668 times:

Quoting COSPN (Reply 12):
Another RUMOR is kicking around that NRT and Everything West of HNL will Close down...NRT Slots sold off and park all Widebodys except A330 for SEA/NRT-AMS PDX-NRT

Why would Northwest do this when every airline is trying to get more international routes? This rumor makes no sense.


User currently offline7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2633 times:

should i cash in my miles on Northwest?? It sounds like the sh*t is going to hit the fan


The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
User currently offlineKanebear From United States of America, joined May 2002, 953 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2600 times:

Quoting Midway7 (Reply 13):
TWFirst - if this is the case, why did you comment in the first place?

He took offense to your assertion that AMEX are bastards. He's obviously a satisfied (and proud) employee. He has good reason to be. I'm a Centurion holder and have been a cardmember for ten years. They've never done me wrong and very rarely let me down. I can't say the same for MBNA/Chase/Fleet/Pulaski etc etc etc.

As to why AMEX wouldn't turn over funds... they're a well run business; I'd imagine they see something amiss at NW that we aren't privvy to and are protecting their interests.


User currently onlineCOSPN From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1637 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2558 times:

Why would Northwest do this when every airline is trying to get more international routes? This rumor makes no sense.

To Sell (for Cash) the NRT Slots...and trim down the Fleet NRT Airports fees are Excessive..

No Need for DIP Loans....What else can they sell ???


User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2542 times:

I get Amex offers in the mail all the time. Unfortunately i don't spend enough to warrant the annual fee.


"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7557 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2540 times:

Quoting COSPN (Reply 12):
Another RUMOR is kicking around that NRT and Everything West of HNL will Close down...NRT Slots sold off and park all Widebodys except A330 for SEA/NRT-AMS PDX-NRT

Wishful thinking of airlines who dont have those valuable routes, how about NW just get rid of their most valuable and profitable areas.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineFI642 From Monaco, joined Mar 2005, 1079 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2502 times:

NW actually do owe AMEX money, it's in the court filing.

.... and all of that stock they made the employees buy with a promise
to buy back, then when the time came: "we can't legally repurchase it."
Now the employees lost their investment, and will lose part of their pay.



737MAX, Cool Planes for the Worlds Coolest Airline.
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8419 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2470 times:

If I was looking at NW from a credit card's point of view I would be looking at how many of the tickets will not be able to be used and how much will need to be refunded to the cardholders.

First place to look? How about how NW is treating their feeder airlines? Oooops. I'd hold onto the money also.

IMO, NW has not thought things out very well.


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7681 posts, RR: 17
Reply 22, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2429 times:

I was flying from LHR to TLV one evening a few years back. When I got airside at LHR I found I had mislaid my Amex card. Phoned the wife and phoned Amex before boarding my flight. When I got to Tel Aviv the following morning I went to my hotel and then the Amex office and collected a replacement card that was waiting for me. So they saved my bacon (sorry!) and are certainly not bastards in my book!

User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 52
Reply 23, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2410 times:

Quoting Kanebear (Reply 16):
I'm a Centurion holder and have been a cardmember for ten years.

Somebody's got some dough... wanna use that black card to take me out on a date??  Wink



An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13430 posts, RR: 100
Reply 24, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2405 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting 1millionflyer (Reply 3):
I would bet NW is not living up to their card service agreement with Amex

A sensible post. I'm not sure why the posts went downhill so fast after that... AMEX is on the line with their customers. Per most card service agreements, a company in BK can be paid on a "as you go" basis. There is a reason DL had such a tough time getting a credit card processor such a short time ago...

Quoting Midway7 (Reply 4):
It could be that AMEX has imposed such a policy on NW, and we all know that credit card companies love changing the terms and conditions of agreements without bilateral consent.

???
Credit card companies are a business who act like a business. Yes, many of the consumer credit card companies have issues; but AMEX is mostly a corporate agency.

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 10):

LOL... obviously, you didn't meet the requirements for Card Membership.

 rotfl  I have a pair in my wallet (incl. the corporate).

I do wonder if AMEX is a creditor to NWA... has anyone gone through the BK docs?

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
25 1MillionFlyer : I only have the Platinum card , I put 94K through it last year, and over 700K since 1990. What does it take to get a Centurion?
26 1MillionFlyer : filler filler posted 2 times[Edited 2005-09-29 05:34:20]
27 Post contains links and images DocChaos : From Snopes.com http://www.snopes.com/business/bank/blackcard.asp The AmEx Centurion card... The card for someone with LOTS of money.. DocChaos
28 BigOrange : It seems strange to me that they can invest so much money on a sinking ship, but they don't invest any money in their own company employees, who they
29 1MillionFlyer : They pre-purchased Delta Skymiles at a major discount for Membership Rewards members, this saved them many millions of dollars and gave DL cash, Cash
30 TWFirst : Based on your profile, you are probably referring to what is now known as our Business Travel division, part of the larger Corporate Services divisio
31 Robsawatsky : I assume US Bankruptcy law has provisions for offsets (i.e. where money is owed in both directions between the parties) as was the case when Air Canad
32 Post contains images Kanebear : Gotta talk to my wife first, she might object but then again she might not. IMO it's not worth it anymore. The annual fee has gone from $1k to $2.5k
33 Schipholjfk : With all due respect you did not lend money out of CHARITY! I am sure at the end of the day via interests your company will be well compensated. Havi
34 MarshalN : Since people seem to know the NWA owes AMEX money, do people have any idea how much? I think they actually over issued the black card, making it less
35 Kanebear : At least here in the US, AMEX didn't raise fees for existing cardholders. They only instituted the new fees for new accounts. I'm sure someday they'l
36 Post contains images TWFirst : Of course not... I wasn't implying we did, and yes, of course we did it with every hope that in the end, it would turn out to be a win/win situation.
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