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If JetBlue Made Gary (IN) A Focus City  
User currently offlineJetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2980 posts, RR: 14
Posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4634 times:

If JetBlue made Gary, Indiana a focus city, would it work?

It's my opinion that JetBlue's product would be very much appreciated in the Chicago metro area. If they go into Gary, a virtually untouched airport, JetBlue wouldn't have to compete directly with UA, AA, or even worse: WN. This would basically allow them some breathing space as far as fares, frequencies and routes go.

I'm not at all "in the know" about the Chicago area. What type of market is there in Gary? How far is it from ORD and MDW? For how many people would it be the most convenient airport?

Please keep in mind that I do not mean that JetBlue should tap into the Chicago market right now. They have plenty on their hands with BOS, JFK, and now IAD (see: FlyI's massive decrease in seats).

Let me know your thoughts.

JetBluefan1


Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
106 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12103 posts, RR: 49
Reply 1, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4617 times:
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First of all finding people willing to drive to GYY in order to fly out of there. Let me ask you have you ever been or driven past Gary on your way to Chicago?


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineIRelayer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 1073 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4603 times:

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Thread starter):
It's my opinion that JetBlue's product would be very much appreciated in the Chicago metro area. If they go into Gary, a virtually untouched airport, JetBlue wouldn't have to compete directly with UA, AA, or even worse: WN. This would basically allow them some breathing space as far as fares, frequencies and routes go.

It is untouched for a reason. The airport sucks, not to mention that the city of Gary is known as the dirty armpit of Chicagoland. The ONLY way to make the Chicago market work for JetBlue is to make ORD a focus city. But then again they will get killed by AA or UA or both. That or setup shop at MKE a-la Midwest.

-IR


User currently onlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6763 posts, RR: 17
Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4592 times:

How far is Rockford? Is it a viable alternative?


Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineIRelayer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 1073 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4584 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 3):
How far is Rockford? Is it a viable alternative?

Rockford = 1-1.5 hours drive time from ORD (roughly). Would only be a viable alternative if the fares were cheap and the Western suburbs expanded somewhat :P

-IR

[Edited 2005-09-28 21:14:07]

User currently offlineJetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2980 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4570 times:

Is Gary really as bad as everyone says it is? I heard that the airport is on the west side and therefore closer to Chicago (comparatively speaking).

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4567 times:

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 1):
Let me ask you have you ever been or driven past Gary on your way to Chicago?

I lived in Valparaiso for 3 years. I think anyone who's taken the Skyway before knows the GYY area.

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Thread starter):
If JetBlue made Gary, Indiana a focus city, would it work?

Doubtful. They'd most likely need to build their own terminal, and to be honest I don't know what kind of land there is at GYY for parking/terminal on that grand of a scale. Would me more of an obstacle than for WN @ BFI in terms of lack of infrastructure for THAT kind of operation (Note to WN people: Please do not turn this into a pro/con of BFI... I'm just making an analogy here... this thread is about B6).

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Thread starter):
a virtually untouched airport,

Hooters would argue with you on that.  Wink But it's untouched because it's too small of a facility for a major hubbing/focus operation.

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Thread starter):
WN

MDW isn't THAT far away.

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Thread starter):
For how many people would it be the most convenient airport?

Lake and Porter County, IN. While they are two of the richest and quicker growing counties in Indiana, combined population is about 650,000. A tiny bit of the Illinois section around Lansing and whatnot too would be closer to GYY than MDW, but not more than about 50,000 people I would think. Likewise the eastern half of Porter County including for that matter Valparaiso could just almost as quickly (and MUCH less traffic) get to SBN.

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Thread starter):
I'm not at all "in the know" about the Chicago area. What type of market is there in Gary? How far is it from ORD and MDW?

Gary itself is a rough town. No offense to anyone, but there's no denying that it's a rough town with high crime, high poverty, etc. Surrounding areas in Lake County and then into Porter County are pretty much middle to upper class (in a few instances) bedroom communities, and Merrillville, IN is a retail hub with malls and whatnot, as to a lesser extent Valparaiso is, which also has a university which is home to around 3700 students from all across the county (and world for that matter) as opposed to the few schools in Lake County which are primarily satellite campuses, like IU-Northwest or whatever that is called. Valpo definitely isn't enough to fill airplanes though. Many Chicagoans, especially the north side suburbs, which is where more of the "money" lives would have a LONG commute to GYY... and also view Indiana as some 3rd world country that is only useful for farms and Indiana Dunes National Park.


User currently offlineUAL Bagsmasher From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 2146 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4556 times:

Gary was once, and may still be, "Murder Capital of the USA."

User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4556 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 3):
How far is Rockford? Is it a viable alternative?

too far from Downtown Chicago...MDW would be their best bet, as there too much of a competition with WN...

B6 can easily serve JFK/LGA-MDW.....

ORD would be a toughie.but its possible....



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4555 times:

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 5):
Is Gary really as bad as everyone says it is?



Quoting IRelayer (Reply 2):
not to mention that the city of Gary is known as the dirty armpit of Chicagoland

IRelayer that comment is a bit disgusting, and could almost be construed as bigotted, but no JetBluefan1, Gary is not as bad as people like IRelayer make it out to be.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 3):
How far is Rockford? Is it a viable alternative?

Too far west... would be as bad as considering SBN a viable alternative.


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6484 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4549 times:

If someone made a major airport in the Joliet area, it'd be close enough to draw a lot of customers from the Western and Southern suburbs. Actually, GYY is close enough to Chicago that if transportation were better, it might draw some traffic. The problem is that there is no El line to GYY from Chicago, and the Metra line (which is a good system) is still 1.5 miles away.


When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineIRelayer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 1073 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4541 times:

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 5):
Is Gary really as bad as everyone says it is? I heard that the airport is on the west side and therefore closer to Chicago (comparatively speaking).

JetBluefan1

Its not the distance really, that is the disadvantage. It is the fact that it is in Gary. Not a lot of people are willing to drive out there to catch a flight. Whereas MDW and ORD are pretty well situated (close to where people live) Gary, for anyone in Chicagoland who doesn't live on the far far south side, would be very inconvinient.

-IR


User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4541 times:

Quoting UAL Bagsmasher (Reply 7):
Gary was once, and may still be, "Murder Capital of the USA."

You wouldn't go through the "bad part" to get to the airport. And it's no longer the most dangerous city in the US. Besides, a city like that, as long as you aren't dealing drugs or in gangs you're pretty safe. I made dozens of trips to "the boats" and never felt unsafe.


User currently offlineIRelayer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 1073 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4520 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 9):
IRelayer that comment is a bit disgusting, and could almost be construed as bigotted, but no JetBluefan1, Gary is not as bad as people like IRelayer make it out to be.

How is that bigotted? Trust me when I say that you are reading way too much into my statement. You don't have to play the race card just because you think every statement that people make automatically has racial connotations. You lose a lot of credibility that way. For the record, I was not implying anything. I was simply stating that much of Chicagoland perceives Gary to be a not-so-desirable area. Is that not true?

-IR


User currently offlineGoAllegheny From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 340 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4507 times:

Whatever the problems in Gary (and they exist in some metro Chicago towns as well), they would not affect the airport. It is on the outskirts of town, hard by the highway and near the mills.

Perhaps a stronger issue is simply demographics. I am not sure that the % of people within 1 hour of Gary who fly is as high as that within 1 hour of MDW or ORD. Low fares certainly would help. But Gary is the demographic opposite of Westchester County airport, or White Plains, or whatever it is called. There you have a fair number of wealthy folks and corporate types who support frequent RJ flights to points west.

My sense is that the airport may grow slowly, but there has to be a reason. People will drive hours to save a couple hundred on fares, but with MDW so close there is no need to go to Gary. Perhaps the growth in Lake County and nearby will support the airport, but most people from those areas still fly MDW or ORD because of the much broader choice of destinations.

And, as others have said, it is a small airport, constrained by space, and it would be very hard to add longer additional runways.

Having said all of that, it would be interesting to see if JetBlue could support flights to NY and Florida out of Gary.


User currently offlineORD From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1381 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4498 times:

Quoting IRelayer (Reply 2):
It is untouched for a reason. The airport sucks, not to mention that the city of Gary is known as the dirty armpit of Chicagoland.

The airport itself does not suck. The current terminal is new and very clean and nice. The future development calls for an even nicer 60-gate terminal (if it's needed). All of Boeing's corporate fleet is based at Gary due to the fact there is no congestion and the airport is a breeze to get to from downtown Chicago (where Boeing is headquartered).

As for Gary being dirty, I don't think that means anything. There are lots of casinos in the area and nobody seems to be afraid of going there. Also, the same was once said of the area where Midway airport is, or where Newark airport is or Oakland. That didn't stop the development of those airports.

I doubt JetBlue will go to Gary, but you never know. Who thought they would have built up Long Beach? Time will tell.

Gary is only 12 miles from Midway and 17 miles from O'Hare. There are about 2.5 million people in the Chicago area closer to Gary than Midway, and over 3 million closer than O'Hare. Plus, Gary has room to expand, with more land than Midway.


User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4476 times:

Quoting IRelayer (Reply 13):
How is that bigotted? Trust me when I say that you are reading way too much into my statement. You don't have to play the race card just because you think every statement that people make automatically has racial connotations. You lose a lot of credibility that way.

Bigot doesn't necessarily play the race card, and I wasn't playing it. It can also play the looking down at people less fortunate than you or that they live in a "dirty" town. Speaking of credibility, a post that says "armpit of Chicago" isn't a way to gain any either. It's not that bad of a place, and no worse than some of the neighborhoods only a block or two off of Cicero heading to/from MDW, or around Comiskey/Cellular One Field.

Quoting GoAllegheny (Reply 14):
Whatever the problems in Gary (and they exist in some metro Chicago towns as well), they would not affect the airport. It is on the outskirts of town, hard by the highway and near the mills.

Exactly.

Quoting ORD (Reply 15):
The future development calls for an even nicer 60-gate terminal (if it's needed).

Do they have room for that, and parking, in that plot of land? Or will it be another MDW type of setup at that point, hardly even room to breathe?


User currently offlineJpetekYXMD80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4389 posts, RR: 29
Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4461 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 16):
Speaking of credibility, a post that says "armpit of Chicago"

Oh but it is absolutely true. You're getting on the guy for stating a majority public opinion? Gary has an extremely negative connotation to go along with it, and no doubt that would effect whether or not someone would go and fly out of there. It's the 'armpit of Chicago'. Sorry, but it is, theres no denying it.



The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlineVivavegas From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 505 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4456 times:

Quoting GoAllegheny (Reply 14):
Perhaps a stronger issue is simply demographics. I am not sure that the % of people within 1 hour of Gary who fly is as high as that within 1 hour of MDW or ORD

You nailed it, a fact of simple demographics. The north suburbs of Chicago is much more desirable than the south suburbs, and relying on traffic from suburban Porter and Lake counties just does not justify the service.

Nothing racist or biggoted about that, just the facts.

I honestly think a small presence at ORD is the most likely senario. One gate and no more than 6-8 flights per day just to get a foot-hold and see how things shakeout with UA and AA.

Rockford, while they make every attempt to be Chicago's third airport is just too far away from the population (perhaps in 10 years, as the population keep creeping out that NW Tollway).

MKE, again too far, too much competition at this time, limited gate area (perhaps the rumors of "C" might come true some day).

My $.02

Craig
MKE
SXM soon.....



MKE / EYW / LAS - The true trifecta of aviation!
User currently offlineIRelayer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 1073 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4444 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 16):
Bigot doesn't necessarily play the race card, and I wasn't playing it. It can also play the looking down at people less fortunate than you or that they live in a "dirty" town. Speaking of credibility, a post that says "armpit of Chicago" isn't a way to gain any either. It's not that bad of a place, and no worse than some of the neighborhoods only a block or two off of Cicero heading to/from MDW, or around Comiskey/Cellular One Field.

For the record:

bigot
n.

One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

Respectfully, I don't see how you could interpret my original statement as being any of those things. Bigot is a strong word. Use it with care.

-IR

[Edited 2005-09-28 21:58:05]

[Edited 2005-09-28 21:58:30]

User currently offlineAirportPlan From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 469 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4425 times:

GYY is a small but very nice airport. It only has three gates but is only 35 minutes from downtown Chicago. The airport is far away from the "dangerous" parts of the city. A million or so people per year have no problem visiting the casinos that are less than a mile away from the airport. One nearby casino is owned by Donald Trump who uses GYY when he visits his casino. Boeing bases it's corporate fleet in a new hangar at the airport. Boeing would not base 100 Million Dollars worth of aircraft (BBJ, G5, S76) at a dangerous dumpy airport. Will jetBlue begin operations at GYY. Probably not. So far they have refused to go into MDW. They want ORD but there are no gates available at ORD.

Check out the Gary Airport Website http://www.garychicagoairport.com


User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9611 posts, RR: 52
Reply 21, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4430 times:

If an airline wanted to start a big operation out of Rockford, then the city would certainly build a new terminal. They did that for UPS and have created a big cargo hub. Rockford's airport authority currently pays people to use the airport (up to $100 for connecting flights via DTW on NW). The airport has plenty of space, and if an airline like jetBlue wanted a 60 gate terminal, then they would most likely get it for free. This is one desperate city. But of course that won't happen.

As for main question, I will sum it up with one sentence:
If JetBlue Made Gary (IN) A Focus City, then JetBlue Would Lose A Lot Of Money.

Chicago might be a big aviation market, but it is extremely well served with the UA megahub and strong hubs by both WN and AA as well as being influenced by the Midwest hub and ATA presence. This city is well covered as far as aviation goes. jetBlue thrives of leisure routes, especially to Florida and there is a lot of competition in the Chicago area for that service. WN has much of the market covered, and the network carriers along with smaller carriers like Spirit or charters have many flights to Florida. JetBlue could certainly sell seats and keep planes full with their great product, but they probably couldn't profit out of the Chicago market as well as they can out of the Northeast where there is less leisure competition out of BOS, JFK, LGA or upstate New York.

[Edited 2005-09-28 22:17:33]


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4420 times:

Quoting Vivavegas (Reply 18):
You nailed it, a fact of simple demographics. The north suburbs of Chicago is much more desirable than the south suburbs, and relying on traffic from suburban Porter and Lake counties just does not justify the service.

You summed up my whole original post right there. The money is up north, southside Chicago is not as much of a high-travel demographic, and Lake/Porter can't suffice to maintain a focus city without significant help.

Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 17):
Oh but it is absolutely true. You're getting on the guy for stating a majority public opinion? Gary has an extremely negative connotation to go along with it, and no doubt that would effect whether or not someone would go and fly out of there. It's the 'armpit of Chicago'. Sorry, but it is, theres no denying it.

But once again, the airport would have better highway access than MDW... therefore exposing passengers to less of the "bad neighborbood" than MDW does. As far as the scenery out the windows of the car, driving to GYY would be nearly the same as driving to ORD. Interstates and more interstates until the Airport exit and parking lots. Half of the negative connotation of GYY could be changed by naming it "Northwest Indiana Regional Airport" or "Lake County airport" or something just to get Gary out of the name for the Chicagoans who think they're too high and mighty to venture into Gary. The fact of the matter is quite simply this:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 6):
Many Chicagoans, especially the north side suburbs, which is where more of the "money" lives would have a LONG commute to GYY... and also view Indiana as some 3rd world country that is only useful for farms and Indiana Dunes National Park

I'd be all for building up GYY... but I don't think it's the kind of airport for a B6 Focus City. It would be better suited to things like Ted, Song, Frontier, and other airlines taking people to leisure destinations (maybe even WN too), with MDW being more suited for people in Chicago who need to get on a plane quickly and get to a business center like LGA... an operation that B6 would run.


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6484 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4409 times:

Quoting Vivavegas (Reply 18):
You nailed it, a fact of simple demographics. The north suburbs of Chicago is much more desirable than the south suburbs, and relying on traffic from suburban Porter and Lake counties just does not justify the service.

You are forgetting that the affluent area stretches from northern Cook County/southern Lake County at Lake Michigan counterclockwise in a belt going around the outside edge of O'Hare, towards Schaumburg, and then south and ending at I-55, which includes Naperville/Glen Ellyn/Downers Grove/Clarendon Hills/etc. That's a lot of territory, and some of it could benefit from an additional airport.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4385 times:

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 21):
Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 6):
Hooters would argue with you on that. But it's (Rockford) untouched because it's too small of a facility for a major hubbing/focus operation.

If an airline wanted to start a big operation out of Rockford, then the city would certainly build a new terminal. They did that for UPS and have created a big cargo hub.

I wasn't talking about Rockford. Respectfully, don't add your own edits and post it as a direct quote from me.

Quoting IRelayer (Reply 19):
One who is strongly partial to one's own group,

Middle class VS Lower class... those are groups. Your definition works for how I used it. However if you read my post, I did say that it "could almost be construed as," did I say I was construing it that way?? I was actually referring to those who DO think racially automatically... and giving you a warning about blanket statements such as that. I do know if I lived in GYY and read your statement, I'd call you even more than a bigot for that comment. Personally I think Chicago in general is an undesirable place to live, but I wouldn't call it "The armpit of America," and if I did have to live in Chicagoland I'd rather live in Northwest Indiana (therefore closer proximity to GYY than either MDW or ORD) than anywhere in Illinois.


I don't know why everyone is so wound up about GYY, just reopen CGX!!  stirthepot  (KIDDING by the way!)


25 Tornado82 : DPA fits that billing.
26 Loisencroach : Jet Blue has surveyed Rockford. That's all I know.
27 RoseFlyer : Sorry Tornado, I accidentally misquoted you, but edited it out. There were a number of articles in local newspapers about that. None of them were very
28 Tatfsn : You don't know what you're talking about. And what exactly is that supposed to mean? I have personally had dealings with the airport for some years,
29 Bravogolf : I think that with age, IRelayer will learn to put his brain in gear before his mouth. 1 GYY is at 740 acres. There is room to expand to 1800+acres. 2
30 ORD : Gary has roughly the same amount of land as Newark and almost triple what Midway has.
31 Post contains links Stirling : As of 2001, Gary, IN was indeed, the Murder Capital of The US. (There might be later data...) 79.4 murders per 100,000 residents. The national averag
32 Loisencroach : I'm going to research that. I think that UPS built their sorting facility themselves, but I'm not positive. I do know that UPS has given lines of cre
33 Tsnamm : what is the story with Meigs Field? would they ever consider opening it up to commercial traffic again? I know the mayor tried to destroy it and clos
34 Tornado82 : Wow, doesn't seem that big. Thanks!
35 Post contains links RoseFlyer : Yes think that UPS did build that themselves, but the cargo ramp area was built by the airport and I think UPS received its land deeply discounted. T
36 Post contains images Vivavegas : Unless JBLU is in the paving business... Don't count on it! Craig MKE
37 Post contains links and images Vivavegas : One additional look: Sad days indeed.... Craig MKE
38 Tornado82 : I should have never made that joke... But aside from that, JetBlue doesn't run anything that could ever fit into Meigs' runway (when it still existed
39 IRelayer : Yet another example of how age has little to do with maturity. E.G. I never lower myself to personal attacks like you have done. I address the facts
40 Tornado82 : It's not just GYY. Those flights originate in ABE, and go ABE-GYY-LAS. I think there might be others that go ___-GYY-LAS as well.
41 Tatfsn : You're grasping at straws. That, as you claim, "any airport" can fill up "ultra-cheap gambling junket flights to LAS" means that if "the [Gary] airpo
42 IRelayer : I am sorry you feel that way. If you can change my opinion of Gary airport, then do so. Otherwise, I will continue to say what I am saying as it is m
43 Tatfsn : I'll make one more try, then I'm done. I already looked at your first post. You stated, authoritatively, that "Gary is known as the dirty armpit of C
44 IRelayer : First of all, when I said that Gary is known as the dirty armpit of Chicagoland I was referring to the city and not the airport. It is well known...I
45 SLUAviator : Ever sit on the Skyway for an hour or two in traffic? Or right now, when people getting on the Skyway sit for an hour on the Ryan in the construction
46 Bravogolf : Road construction doesn't last forever, it just seems like it. The plus side is, when it is done, travel time from GYY to the Loop will be even faster
47 N328KF : If there was/is an effective way to get from the Metra South Shore Line to GYY, this would be mostly alleviated. Chicago-Randolph Street to GYY takes
48 Tornado82 : SLU: You can sit in just as much traffic going to MDW or ORD depending where you are coming from. Traffic is a Chicagoland-as-a-whole issue that just
49 FlyBoy84 : No. Gary is not as bad as people say it is; it's just an overstatement by people who have a problem with that city for one reason or another. I flew
50 Bravogolf : FlyBoy84 The terminal has been totally remodeled since you flew from GYY. There are restrooms in the secure area and a baggage carosel. There are also
51 Post contains images FlyBoy84 : I'm glad to hear of it. The City of Chicago seems (or seemed) to be committed to GYY with a number of proposed improvements to take place over the ye
52 United787 : The "Metra" line or South Shore Line is still a lot closer than most commuter rail lines get to most airports in this country. A direct connection to
53 Tornado82 : Exactly! And going to GYY would be MUCH "safer" (for those who get scared of such things) because it would be more on the highways than MDW which is
54 Post contains images FlyBoy84 : I travel to Chicago quite a bit and have relatives who stay in Evanston (near the HS) and Rogers Park (near Flukey's). I've driven to MDW and to ORD
55 Post contains images Vegasplanes : Ha Ha Ha!!!! It is one of the most prestigious cities of the Midwest, right up there with Flint, MI, and Youngstown, OH.
56 Indy : Hate to say it but this is so true. I learned this from years of working for the phone company. Gary is a dangerous place. I've heard from customers
57 Tornado82 : A few blocks in the "inner-city," yes, is quite bad. But then again, Chicago has neighborhoods just as bad. The GYY airport is nowhere near that stuf
58 Bravogolf : Please Indy Do not go on one of your Gary/GYY bashing tirades again. You apologized the last time you did it.
59 FlyBoy84 : So there I was standing on the South shore platform at the Clark Street station, I believe with baggage in tow waiting for the train. To get to the tr
60 Post contains images Tatfsn : IRelayer, I totally sympathize with THAT, and that's a fair point. For the record, it never occurred to me that your arguments were based on elitism,
61 Tornado82 : Amen.
62 Post contains images Csturdiv : I live in the far, far Northwestern suburbs of Chicago and with the rate that this area is growing (along the I90 corridor through Kane and McHenry c
63 Tornado82 : Makes sense, but Lake/Porter Counties are going pretty fast there as well. The growth in Valparaiso just in my time in college was pretty remarkable,
64 Csturdiv : I think you mentioned that you were joking, but Meigs Field, now called by Northerly Island is now home to a park and an outdoor music venue. I will
65 MDW22L31C : What ever happened to the new airport at Peotone, Il.
66 N328KF : I'd say the approval of the ORD expansion plan (approved today) pretty much spells the end of Peotone.
67 Post contains links Indy : "Just ahead of St. Louis at the most dangerous end of the Morgan Quitno crime scale were Detroit, Michigan; Atlanta, Georgia; Gary, Indiana and Balti
68 Tornado82 : But that doesn't change that AIRPORT IS NOT IN THE "BAD PART" OF THE CITY!!! I've been in a pretty rough neighborhood in Indianapolis once too, that
69 Indy : I didn't say the airport was in the bad part of the city. IRelayer brought up the issue of Gary being not so desierable. I just backed up his claim. A
70 Tornado82 : That could be easily remedied. If someone wants it, I'm sure between the state, the county, etc. that they'd build it.
71 Dnl65 : Then you would be wrong. Peotone is still very actively being considered. It was only tied to ORD in the minds of the opponents. Thge Airport MAster P
72 Indy : Expansion is not a fast process. It can take years from concept to completion. Would Jet Blue wait that long? If GYY were larger or currently in the
73 BravoGolf : Indy How did you know we were expanding the terminal. Oh, you probably saw the notice to the east of the present terminal.
74 Indy : Tell me... if GYY is expanding then tell me when it is expected to start, how big the project will be, and when it is expected to be completed. If the
75 Bravogolf : Construction (ok soil borings) has already started for the runway expansion. The terminal is still in the hands of the architects. The State of Indian
76 ATCRick : Whats the current status of the train at GYY that takes priority over air traffic? No no Bravo Golf, don't try and deny it. I have experienced it firs
77 Indy : Bravo.. I'm not even talking about the runway. The terminal is a big issue. If they start construction in 2006 then you are talking about finishing in
78 Post contains images Jacobin777 : only once in my life unless more lanes are added, it won't improve the situation... don't count on it.... for whatever its worth IRelayer has it corr
79 Indy : I've been to MDW twice. Once in 1987 and once around 2001 or 2002. You'd never know it was the same place. Old place struck me as a dump. New place w
80 BravoGolf : Rick None of your aircraft have ever had to wait for a train. To others reading this, Rick is referring to a special procedure at GYY developed last y
81 ATCRick : I look forward to the improvements. Tell Scott I said hi.
82 Indy : If you avoid concrete work you may be able to pull it off in 2006. But you'd have to start as soon as the ground thaws. Even then you are cutting it c
83 BravoGolf : The major concrete work, ramp expansion, is partially done with the rest being constructed now.
84 Indy : You refering to the runway? I'm talking about the terminal which you mention
85 Jacobin777 : yah...its very different...before the update, anytime I told my parents that I was going to fly out of MDW, they sounded like they would be ready to
86 Post contains links and images B757capt : For record folks. Hooters has never used the Pole procedure in 15 months of service. Also to the fools who don't know a thing about fare structure. Ta
87 United787 : I have wealthy friends that live in the northern suburbs and will travel to MDW (45 minutes to an hour in good traffic) because of a cheap fare even
88 LMP737 : Every city has it's bad parts. The problem Gary has is name association. When you hear the name Chicago what do most people think of? Sears Tower, La
89 Post contains images Tornado82 : Is ABE losing the LAS service now?? I think of winning money playing poker on the boats, but that's just me when I lived out there. I have never been
90 Post contains images Indy : The Cubs won't win a world series? That is a pretty bad stigma to try and rid yourself of if you are Gary.
91 BravoGolf : FYI The Gary Railcats baseball team (Northern league) won the championship two week ago,after being their first three seasons in the cellar. The folks
92 Post contains images Indy : Fargo.. the only city less desirable than Gary. j/k
93 B757capt : Torando82-- ABE will only have service to LAS on Thursdays with a return of Sundays. To be totally honest its the worst schedule in the world for thos
94 Post contains images Tornado82 : Thanks for the reply! Holy crap it'll take all day to get to LAS with that, and there goes our 757 too before I ever got a chance to ride it out of h
95 B757capt : Tornado I would love to put the entire fleet at ABE if I knew it would make us money. The fact of the matter is the FLL, MCO, PIE, flights have great
96 Post contains images Tornado82 : Holy crap it's that bad? 3 or 4 weeks ago I came into ABE on a Sunday night and rode the economy lot bus with a whole load of Hooters customers who w
97 Cloudy : Well....there is a reason BLV has no airline service, at least last time I checked. Its the same reason Gary will likely remain unnatractive for awhi
98 Tornado82 : You can't compare St Louis and Chicago metros. BLV has no service because STL isn't over capacity and anywhere near as inconvenient as ORD and MDW. T
99 AwysBSB : In the same way NW reduced operations in MEM, AA and DL are to reduce in STL and CVG, respectively. If B6 needs to acquire new hubs I think the mentio
100 7E72004 : I have to agree with AwysBSB...GYY will not become a focus city for any airline the time being...even if GYY is not a "bad place" as some claim, the g
101 Post contains links and images LOT767-300ER : LMFAO...what planet are you on? There is no way its 17 miles from ORD-GYY. In traffic that drive is about 1.5-2hrs. Ahh yes Schaumburg, my home Howev
102 Post contains images LMP737 : If I were a Cubs fan I would have taken offense to that. Fortunately I'm not.
103 Indy : As a Cubs fan for over 20 years I can say it with confidence. The Tampa Bay Bucs were never going to win in those ugly orange uniforms. The Cubs will
104 Post contains links KarlB737 : Lots of Information regarding projects and decisions for GYY: http://www.garychicagoairport.com/pressrelease_archive.asp Courtesy: Gary Post-Tribune G
105 Post contains images Tornado82 : Hmm.... 2 hours, in Chicago traffic, you're right there is no way it's 17 miles!! In Chicago traffic you can't go that far in 2 hours!
106 Bravogolf : The present terminal at GYY will be expanded. When the expansions are outgrown then a new much larger modern terminal will be built in the northwest c
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