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ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!  
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12411 posts, RR: 37
Posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8085 times:

According to today's ATW News, Boeing is looking to approve the 747 Advanced aircraft by December.

The usual suspects are mentioned ... CI, CV, CX, SQ, JL, but there is one interesting point. ANZ has apparently said that if the pax aircraft is launched, it will order it.

While the company is tight-lipped on the go-ahead for the program, industry analysts say it is not a matter of if but when. Cargolux has committed to 10 and other carriers identified with the project include China Airlines, Japan Airlines, ANA and Singapore Airlines. Others like Air New Zealand have told this website they likely would buy the model if Boeing commits.

Of course, ANZ is already a 744 operator and it probably isn't that surprising from that vantage point, but as a new 777 operator, I would have thought they'd go for the 773 ER.

Of course, they're not mutually exclusive, but NZ is going to end up with a very interesting fleet : 747Adv, 777, 787, 320 (various different models?) and 733.

[Edited 2005-09-28 22:15:20]

60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNirvarma From New Zealand, joined May 2005, 109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8019 times:

I wouldn't count on NZ getting too many 747ADV (if at all). I think they are moving away from that sort of a/c but maybe NZ1 or someone else will be able clarify. IMO they will definitly be getting more 777ERs and 787 down the line.

Cheers
NV


User currently offlineNZ1 From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 2249 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7805 times:
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Quoting Nirvarma (Reply 1):
I wouldn't count on NZ getting too many 747ADV (if at all). I think they are moving away from that sort of a/c but maybe NZ1 or someone else will be able clarify. IMO they will definitly be getting more 777ERs and 787 down the line.

Don't be too sure about that. I said only last week on another thread that there was a very good chance we will order some 747Adv. The reason for ordering the 773ER later to replace the 744, was because there were no viable alternatives - until now. I can't and won't tell you much more at this stage, except to say, WATCH THIS SPACE.

NZ1


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 962 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 7792 times:

>> The reason for ordering the 773ER later to replace the 744, was because there were no viable alternatives - until now.

Air NZ has not ordered any 773ER at this point. The 772LR and 773ER are both part of NZ's option package, but the firm order placed in Summer-04 is for 772ER (powered by Rolls Royce) and 787-8.


User currently offlineStuarts8 From New Zealand, joined Apr 2000, 39 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7627 times:
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It would not surprise me if Air NZ does go this way. I think that as the 400 is already part of the fleet, this aircraft would suit them more. The Good thing I like about it is that it is 4 Engined. I some how prefer 4 engined Jets going long distances than 2 engined.
Dont know if it makes any difference though.
Stuarts8


User currently offlineSunriseValley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4879 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7501 times:

I think I can see why NZ could be looking closely at the -400ADV.The -300ER seat lift would be about 10% less than the reconfigured -400's and close to 20% less than the -400ADV .
This assumes that the -300ER economy seat pitch is 34" and that the number of premium seats is the same as the -200ER; also that the -400ADV premium seating is the same as the reconfigured -400 with the extra capacity of about 40 seats as 34" economy.
NZ’s load factors are growing on the N.A./Europe sector; it was a healthy 80.5% for the 2004/2005 year and hit 88.9% in July 2005 due to the fans travelling to follow the Lion’s rugby tour. Yield is also improving, up 6.9% through August 2005 on long-haul over the previous comparative period . It is difficult to believe that much additional slot capacity is possible at LHR.to pick up the additional frequency that I think would be needed if -300ER’s were used. The anticipated 15% reduction in SFC for the GEnx engine over the CF6-80 engine has to be attractive. NZ has 4-owned and 4 leased -400's . Assuming an EIS of 2008 for the -400ADV , the eldest four in the NZ fleet will be from 14 to 18 years old,probably written off and/or leases finished.


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6407 posts, RR: 38
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7476 times:

Lets hope they buy a few. It will be great seeing many new types of aircraft come into AKL!

Have they got enough money to order these?



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineCslusarc From Canada, joined May 2005, 838 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7458 times:

I think that NZ could buy and fly both the 777-300ER and the 747-ADV. I think there are markets where both type of equiptment would be viable.


--cslusarc from YWG
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21476 posts, RR: 60
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 7392 times:

because of the location of NZ and the vast expanse of ocean between it and south america and africa, a 4 holer may just make more sense for some other their routes, unlike most other carriers in the world.

The 773ER is NOT a like replacement for the 744, and NZ will need to replace the 744 eventually, and is a bit small to take on a fleet of 380s. The 747A is a logical choice for them, to have a fleet of 788, 772(ER and LR), 744, and 747A, with the 320 series replacing the 737s. Yes, the 773ER size might fit in the fleet, but they might be able to make do with choosing 772s and 744s for the routes the 773 would be a slightly better fit on.

But with the 788 and 772 orders, the A350 is right out, and the A380 makes less sense in that context (no commonality with other long haul craft in crew training, one of the "selling points").



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineNZ1 From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 2249 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 7344 times:
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Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 3):
Air NZ has not ordered any 773ER at this point. The 772LR and 773ER are both part of NZ's option package, but the firm order placed in Summer-04 is for 772ER (powered by Rolls Royce) and 787-8.

I think I know that mate. I never said they had ordered them, only that they will later on. I have the 10 year plan sitting in front of me, and know full well, what has been ordered, and what will be ordered. However there is fair bit I am not allowed to tell you - YET.

NZ1


User currently offlineSunriseValley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4879 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 7313 times:

Quoting Cslusarc (Reply 7):
I think that NZ could buy and fly both the 777-300ER and the 747-ADV


I would think that the -200LR is a more likely possibility than the -300ER. It would be a very efficient aircraft in the 6000 to 8000nm range and would complement the -200ER for routes into India and East Coast USA.
Depending if and when some of these new routes come to fruition , the 787-8 or 9 might serve them even better.


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 962 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 7278 times:

>> I think I know that mate. I never said they had ordered them, only that they will later on.

Your statement was a bit ambiguous, I merely clarified for the sake of others.


User currently offlineNirvarma From New Zealand, joined May 2005, 109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 7207 times:

Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 10):
I would think that the -200LR is a more likely possibility than the -300ER. It would be a very efficient aircraft in the 6000 to 8000nm range and would complement the -200ER for routes into India and East Coast USA.
Depending if and when some of these new routes come to fruition , the 787-8 or 9 might serve them even better.

I heard somewhere that of the remaining 16 options for the 787s, NZ will be going for the 789 rather than the 788. Maybe NZ1 can calify this also.

Cheers
NV


User currently offlineNZ1 From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 2249 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7124 times:
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Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 11):
Your statement was a bit ambiguous, I merely clarified for the sake of other

Point taken. When I re-read my earlier statement, it was a little ambiguous. Thanks.

Quoting Nirvarma (Reply 12):
I heard somewhere that of the remaining 16 options for the 787s, NZ will be going for the 789 rather than the 788. Maybe NZ1 can calify this also.

Sorry, cannot comment on that at the moment. Not worth my job

NZ1


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26376 posts, RR: 76
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7098 times:

Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 5):
I think I can see why NZ could be looking closely at the -400ADV.The -300ER seat lift would be about 10% less than the reconfigured -400's and close to 20% less than the -400ADV .
This assumes that the -300ER economy seat pitch is 34" and that the number of premium seats is the same as the -200ER; also that the -400ADV premium seating is the same as the reconfigured -400 with the extra capacity of about 40 seats as 34" economy.

It is very unlikely that NZ would keep the premium seat number the same on the 773ER as on the 772ER. With the NZ new J and no F, the aircraft would probably seat about 330 or so, while a 747ADV would run around 440



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineAerokiwi From New Zealand, joined exactly 14 years ago today! , 2683 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7053 times:

Hmmmmm, I see this going one of two ways...

Option 1: A32x short haul, 788s/789s/78-10s med/long haul, 747ADV long haul

Option 2: A32x short haul, 788/789 med/long haul, 772/773ER (Asia/SFO routes), 747ADV long haul (Nth America and Europe)

The Japan flights rarely warrant a 747 sized aircraft from memory, so the 772 and 773 would appear ideal for that route, along with Singapore and Hong Kong and potentially China. Also the 773ER on SFO flights would seem to work.

787s would fit nicely into Australia and the Pacific and other Asian ports, such as Taipei, Seoul (if reopened), Kuala Lumpur (if ever opened) and Nagoya. Plus a potential Indian route.

The 747ADV would be needed for its capacity on LAX and LHR flights.

So I suppse it all depends on whether Boeing offers the 787-10 as to the decision re. keeping the 772s in the fleet. Ha! We're already planning their demise and NZ hasn't even taken delivery yet!


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 6904 times:
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Quoting Kaitak (Thread starter):
but NZ is going to end up with a very interesting fleet : 747Adv, 777, 787, 320 (various different models?) and 733.

By the time the B787s arrive the B733 fleet could have been replaced, most likly A319s


User currently offlineNZAA From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6869 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 16):

I agree i think we will see something in the near future re. 737-300.
But boy would i love to see some 737NG in NZ colours with winglets.
Unfortunatley i dont think this will happen.

Trav



Planes Piloted Tecnam P2002 JF, Cessna 172R, Cessna 152, Airbus A320
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6738 times:
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Quoting NZAA (Reply 17):
But boy would i love to see some 737NG in NZ colours with winglets.
Unfortunatley i dont think this will happen.

Agree, but A320 family is the preferred short haul for NZ, so sadly no


User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7088 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6595 times:

Hmm very interesting. Glad the 747 is still in contention.

User currently offlineDalecary From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6521 times:

NZ1,

I have heard from a reliable source that AirNZ may be about to place a follow-on order for both 777/787, and I believe the 777s won't be 772ERs and the 787s could well be -9s. The order may in fact be only a matter of weeks away.


User currently offlineNZ1 From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 2249 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6489 times:
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All I can say is - no comment. If thats what you have been told, then we will wait and see. Sorry dude, I just can't say much at all about this.

NZ1


User currently offlineDalecary From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6407 times:

No worries NZ1,

just telling you what I heard. Fully understand the position you are in and wouldn't expect a confirmation one way or the other. It's just another wait-and-see game.


User currently offlineSpinalTap From New Zealand, joined Mar 2005, 440 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6323 times:

Maybe they could get some good discounts especially considering the late 777s and as they were the second customer to order the 787. It would be a sad day when the are no longer any jumbos in the fleet.


"I get what they call a stipend, a stipend is like money but its such as small amount they don't really call it money"
User currently offlineZeekiel From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6312 times:

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 22):
It's just another wait-and-see game.

Another wait and see escapade. Just like QF and the 777 and BA and the 747ADV or A380 (although we know which one is more favoured).

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 21):
All I can say is - no comment.

No problem mate. We just have to wait until we get press statements from the airline and Boeing.

Cheers

Zeekiel


25 SpinalTap : That might be an interesting move especially as the capacity of the 789 would seem to be edging towards that of the 772. They could then shift some o
26 TinkerBelle : Maybe I'm missing something here and please forgive me if I’m but I thought Boeing is only 'looking into' the 787-10 mostly coz EK is really interes
27 BOS2LAF : The proposed 787-10 will not eat into the 777-200LR, theres a big range difference. If anything it will kill the 200ER because the proposed -10 would
28 TinkerBelle : I meant the 772ER then
29 SunriseValley : Is it possible that one or two of the -200ER's on order could be changed to -200LR's? Could the timing be delayed long enough to have some 747-400ADV
30 Zkojh : lets at least get our T7's first, any new date set yet from boeing?? I dou't the 1st lot of 200er's could be changed , as this would mess up with deli
31 777ER : There was/is talk that NZ will retire its four leased B772s when the leases expire and replace them with B787s, so if the B787-10 is built then NZ wo
32 KC135TopBoom : Well, Boeing seems to be working hard on selling NZ some mid/long ranged airplanes, including the B-747-ADV. Is Boeing trying to work through a back
33 JetMaster : What would be the purpose of such a deal? It would be just a waste of money, ANZ has no reason to get rid of new A320s and Boeing doesn't desperately
34 SNATH : I'd personally doubt that Boeing would get out of its way to do a B737NGs for A319s/A320s deal for NZ, given that the B737NG is apparently selling qu
35 JetMaster : I have never heard about such a deal. Considering the B737NG sales there's no need to do so. Regards, JM
36 Post contains images Planemanofnz : I really think NZ is well suited to the 747ADV. Mainly because it is a four engined aircraft which means no problems with ETOPS when they want to star
37 Upupandaway : 777 due to arrive early Nov now that strike has been called off. according to insiders. heard a rumour about ADL. new city for next year!
38 Post contains images Planemanofnz : Adelaide!!!!!!!! I am definately interested in this route(obviously it will not be flown with 747ADV ) but with Qantas' oddly timed flights I am sure
39 Upupandaway : don't quote me on ADL, just heard a rumour and I know how much everyone on Anet loves a good rumour. Still it makes sense, but to the point, the 777 a
40 Kiwiandrew : slightly off topic I know - but I hope the 737s stay at least another three years - September 2008 would mark 40 years of 737 operations at NZ which
41 Post contains links NZ107 : 3 years probably almost certain.. A320's aren't going to take all their places and 787's aren't coming till 2008. IMO Air NZ aren't going to be buyin
42 ZKSUJ : Planemanofnz-welcome to a.net. ADL would be an interesting port. Most probably served with a 320. If the 747A was ordered, would there be a chance it
43 Zkojh : ADL is already served by QF, from AKL, 3x weekly, so can't really see NZ going for it, if they did they could time it in, so it run's into the LAX/SFO
44 SunriseValley : Did the special shareholders meeting to approve the purchase/ lease of the 8, -200ER's and the 2- 787's also cover off the purchase of additional air
45 NZ1 : 737's will be in the domestic fleet for a while yet, in fact they will still be around when the 787 arrives, and beyond. AFAIK, no further meeting is
46 Planemanofnz : Are all of the NZ 737's converted into express class configuration?, just asking because I was wondering are the AKL-Norfolk Island and NAN-RAR fligh
47 Adam T. : With NZ getting new aircraft are their any new gateways in North America being looked at in addition to the already serviced LAX, SFO, and HNL? I woul
48 777ER : Yea but with poor depature times. NZ could do well with say 12pm depature from AKL. Yes The International flights that are serviced by B737s (if any)
49 Planemanofnz : Denver might be an option because of connections with United around the U.S and it wld provide an alternative to connecting to europe with lufthansa,
50 ZK-NBT : Yup they are all Express class, well atleast I think they are. I believe only a couple of 733's operate the International flights, usually ZK-FRE and
51 Post contains images NZ1 : All I will say to that is that you make A LOT of sense, if you get what I mean And yes, all our 737's are 1 class economy. Regional flights are able
52 Post contains images NZ747 : I think the B747Adv would be great for Air New Zealands long haul routes, but it would be great to see some B773ERs in there too. As for Adelaide...wh
53 Planemanofnz : Thanks for that. So will there be any chance of NZ getting any a319's or a321's in the next 5 to 10 years?
54 777ER : A319s will replace the B733s due to same size as B733s. A321s, could say is a 50/50 chance because some International routes like AKL-SYD could do wi
55 NZ1 : Next 5, no, next 10, maybe, but not definite. There was discussion a while ago about buying 737-700 to replace the domestic aircraft instead of the A
56 PlaneSmart : I'm sure just about every permutation has been discussed at morning tea in engineering.
57 Zkojh : sounds like your tea breaks are fun !!LOL
58 Planemanofnz : Any reason to why they would be buying 737-700's to replace the domestic fleet? I thought it would be cheaper to go with A319's because of the option
59 777ER : Only reasons I can think off is because it will be cheaper to train pilots on the B737-700 compared to changing to A320 family and because of MX
60 NZ1 : Those are two, but there are others as well. Nothing is definte yet. The 737-700 has only been banded about, it isn't on paper as such. NZ1
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