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Allegiant's/Hooters Response To TM's Demise?  
User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9304 posts, RR: 25
Posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2994 times:

Allegiant seems to be on a streak here, no need to stop if they can keep making money.

I don't expect knee jerk reactions, but I predict -

Belleville and Rockford will come next with announcements within two weeks.



But will Allegiant venture into any of the cities the size of say...Cincinnati, that Trans Meridian used to fly from?

This I doubt.


Any thoughts on the Hooters? ;p


Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlyBoy84 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 382 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2962 times:

Hey, I'd love to see HootersAir flying out of BLV! Especially to MCO! If TransMeridian did well, I would hope that they'd move in to take advantage of this situation. Flying to MCO might capture even more travellers.

Hell, I'd fly 'em just for the fun of it and drive over to Tampa to visit a friend of mine.


User currently offlineSkyWestFan From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 179 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2946 times:

4 PACE flights just arrived operating as Vacation Express to pick up the slack. 3 aircraft were in the Hooters livery. Anyway, 2 more flights are scheduled to arrive tonight as well. Look like we may see them around for a while......


MarcF



Fiji. Its like sex - but better.
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2937 times:

I wouldn't be surprised if Allegiant picks up TMA's MD-80s and also picks up some of the Vacation Express flights. Hooters/Pace Airlines will probably be the short term solution for Vacation Express, but it is not out of the realm of possibilities that they pick the contract back up (Pace used to have the V.E. contract).

User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5793 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2831 times:

Quoting STLGph (Thread starter):
Allegiant seems to be on a streak here, no need to stop if they can keep making money.
I don't expect knee jerk reactions, but I predict -
Belleville and Rockford will come next with announcements within two weeks.
But will Allegiant venture into any of the cities the size of say...Cincinnati, that Trans Meridian used to fly from?
This I doubt.

Allegiant has a habit of taking a good look at the numbers for a route. So they will probably add a few of the more successful TMA ones. But they will pass if they don't like the way a route's costs look over the next 3 or 4 years.

I can only guess at which ones they will consider but I agree that Belleville and Rockford will get a good look. My guess is also Allentown and Syracuse will be examined. I'm going back and forth about whether they would also look at Toledo. The rest I think will turn out to be passed on by Allegiant

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 3):
I wouldn't be surprised if Allegiant picks up TMA's MD-80s

TMA's birds are mainly older than the aircraft Allegiant has been picking up. TMA's were built in 1983, 1985 and 1986, although 1 was built in 1990. Allegiant is only operating 2 aircraft older than 1986. If the price and condition are OK then G4 might consider them but I wouldn't be surprised to see a pass on them also.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineBravogolf From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 538 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2749 times:

ATCRick will correct me if I am wrong, but Allegiant only flys Mad Dogs with 219 engines. What engines did the TMA birds have?

User currently offlineATCRick From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 772 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2715 times:
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BravoGolf,

You are correct sir. Not sure what the TMA birds have



natch!!
User currently offlineFXRA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 705 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2707 times:

TMA had 2 -83's with -219 (960PG and 989PG.. u don't want 989), 1 -82 with -217 enginesm and the rest were 82's with 217A's.

All the 757's on property were Rolls powered, the ex-TWA's had been returned to lessor earlier this month.

I think G4 would do well to pick up BLV, it was allegedly one of the best cities TMA operated in terms of revenues. I can see hooters/pace going into RFD as they already service (and G4 does MSN already, they're fairly close).

I hate its gone, there were lots of good people working there. but the writing was on the walls, and everyone knew it. A lot of people (myself included) left in recent months)

Later
JD



Visualize Whirled Peas
User currently offlineATCRick From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 772 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2674 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Being the fan and part of this industry that I am, I too hate to see any carrier cease operations. It has a negative affect on too many good people. I wish you all well


natch!!
User currently offlineCIDflyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2274 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2669 times:

Quoting FXRA (Reply 7):
and G4 does MSN already

G4 is pulling out of Madison and has already announced RFD-LAS

RFD Announcement:
http://allegiantair.com/pr/091405.htm

MSN announcement:
http://www.madison.com/tct/business/index.php?ntid=54117&ntpid=1


User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5793 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2656 times:

Quoting FXRA (Reply 7):
I can see hooters/pace going into RFD as they already service (and G4 does MSN already, they're fairly close).

Don't forget Allegiant already has Rockford-LAS.

Quoting FXRA (Reply 7):
TMA had 2 -83's with -219 (960PG and 989PG.. u don't want 989), 1 -82 with -217 enginesm and the rest were 82's with 217A's.

I didn't have info on the engines good to know.

From a production list I have, I believe 960 was formerly at Finnair then Allegro before TMA. But 989 moved around a lot: German Wings, Pegasus, ZAS, Allegro, Aeromexico, then TMA.

Looks like most of the -82s came from Continental.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineOuboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4567 posts, RR: 23
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2619 times:

Couple thoughts...

If you want a couple of the TMA birds, you are gonna have to ask the Toledo Port Authority nicely. They have taken 2 of them hostage with snow plows.  Smile

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 4):
I'm going back and forth about whether they would also look at Toledo.

Some passenger numbers to play with...

July 2005 - TMA had 2452 boardings and 2292 deplanements. They had 4 weekly flights during this period, but switched them back and forth from the 160-seat MD80 to the 757 which I think had around 200 seats or so. So that would take load factors from nearly full to around 70%. Yeilds...can't help you there.


User currently offlineFXRA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 705 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2559 times:

I stand corrected on Allegiants RFD ops, i completely forgot they started that.So, perhaps G4 will just go straight for them both.

The of the 82's a couple came from Vanguard (the NJ registerd) and the rest were from COA.

989 was a lemon, it was screwed up when we got it and was still screwed up when i left. Pegasus had a habit of pushing the planes they couldn't get anyone else to take onto TMA.

Ouboy, you should take some pictures fo the snow plows... it would be interesting.

later
JD



Visualize Whirled Peas
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2530 times:

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 4):
I can only guess at which ones they will consider but I agree that Belleville and Rockford will get a good look. My guess is also Allentown

I wouldn't expect anyone running ABE-SFB to replace TMA. Why bother, when Hooters already has ABE-MCO?? I think Hooters was putting the hurt on TMA in ABE as it is.

Quoting Ouboy79 (Reply 11):
They have taken 2 of them hostage with snow plows. Smile

Anyone wanting those birds is going to have to wait for a big enough snowstorm that TOL needs their plows put in duty... and then sneak them out in a covert operation.  Silly


User currently offlineOuboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4567 posts, RR: 23
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2435 times:

Quoting FXRA (Reply 12):
Ouboy, you should take some pictures fo the snow plows... it would be interesting.

I asked the local TOL spotters on USAFlying.com nicely, and should get a couple tomorrow.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 13):
Anyone wanting those birds is going to have to wait for a big enough snowstorm that TOL needs their plows put in duty... and then sneak them out in a covert operation.

I think that is when they ask BAX for a few dozen pallet carts to encircle the planes.  Wink


User currently offlineB757capt From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1366 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2415 times:

Don't look for Hooters to jump to quickly. Fuel cost maybe the reason.

NOW

Look for Pace to jump on this is because Pace and Vacation Depress had a great reationship and they still do. Fact of the matter is VE went to TMA because they were cheaper. Pace could not operate their flights with raising the costs so maybe now VE will have no choice??

I got a lot of money betting that G4 does RFD-SFB ASAP. ATCRICK do you guys have the extra equipment to run that?



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User currently offlineStl1326 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 496 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2288 times:

In the Belleville paper, the director had said the flights were running out about 80% full and that the route was one of TMA's top destinations. The airport director was also quoted for saying "I feel very strongly that in about two to three weeks we will see an announcement of a new airline."
here is a link to the airticle: http://www.belleville.com/mld/belleville/12790941.htm


User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5793 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2265 times:

Just checking this morning on how Allegiant has been reacting to TMAs demise.

A few pieces of info:

Until Nov. 21, Allegiant will offer a $50 one-way stand-by fare between SFB and Des Moines, Lansing, and Peoria. Portmouth, South Bend, Springfield, and Newburgh will also see this fare as they come on line with SFB flights. TMAs Rockford customers can go to Peoria and Toledo passengers can go to Lansing.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 13):
I wouldn't expect anyone running ABE-SFB to replace TMA. Why bother, when Hooters already has ABE-MCO?? I think Hooters was putting the hurt on TMA in ABE as it is.

You might want to read this from this morning news:
But he said the authority, which runs LVIA, has already heard from one airline with interest. The interested new carrier appears to be Allegiant Air, which serves Orlando/Sanford from cities such as Worcester, Mass., and McAllen, Texas. Spokeswoman Tyri Squyres said Friday afternoon that Allegiant has ''had some conversations with the airport, overnight, basically.'' Squyres said Allegiant has considered entering LVIA in the past. Doughty said he expects Hooters Air to step up service to Orlando.
http://www.mcall.com/news/local/all-...70061.story?coll=all-newslocal-hed
We'll see what G4 decides to do at ABE but that was at least interesting.

Quoting B757capt (Reply 15):
Look for Pace to jump on this is because Pace and Vacation Depress had a great reationship and they still do. Fact of the matter is VE went to TMA because they were cheaper. Pace could not operate their flights with raising the costs so maybe now VE will have no choice??

Looks like that is what is happening.
Vacation Express, which has flights out of Sanford to five cities in the eastern United States and six in the Caribbean, was using TransMeridian but immediately switched back to Pace Airlines for its flights.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/busin....story?coll=orl-business-headlines



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineOuboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4567 posts, RR: 23
Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2221 times:

Basically some similar information as in the post above, this from the Toledo Blade:

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs...cle?AID=/20051001/NEWS11/510010397

In the meantime, Mr. Toth was in his office yesterday at Toledo Express, helping arrange a deal with Allegiant Air, which for $50 one-way will honor TransMeridian reservations through Nov. 21. The catch: Travelers must be willing to depart from cities Allegiant serves - the closest to Toledo being two hours away in Lansing - and seating will be on a stand-by basis. Allegiant's offer is of no help to those seeking replacement Thanksgiving or Christmas bookings.

Also, it was reported a few weeks ago...i think on usaflying.com, that there was a large package of documentation on Allegiant at TOL. Contents are in question, but my guess would be basic fact finding information for both parties on how the service would do.


User currently offlinePilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3149 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2187 times:

I think that Transmeridian is the first of the little guys to be killed off by high fuel prices. Sadly, they don't have the leverage that bigger carriers have and we may be seeing the beginning of a situation much like we did after 9/11 where smaller airlines start dropping like flies.

I also wouldn't be surprised if Champion and Ryan pick up some of the slack on these charters.



DMI
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5793 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2154 times:

Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 19):
I think that Transmeridian is the first of the little guys to be killed off by high fuel prices. Sadly, they don't have the leverage that bigger carriers have and we may be seeing the beginning of a situation much like we did after 9/11 where smaller airlines start dropping like flies.

It comes down to having the finances to weather a period like this. It seems to happen periodically in the industry and the small companies take the hits. Sometimes its fuel, sometimes its industry events, sometimes its the economy.

But I think Allegiant has positioned themselves well and I expect they will come through this. G4 has kept a close eye on costs at their new cities, look at the refusal to enter Waco due to high refueling fees. Plus they have a willingness to drop routes that don't develop quickly.

They also received $39.5 million from a private placement investment in May, just before things got worse. It's beginning to appear that for some airlines, especially the smaller ones, access to new capital is drying up. Allegiant had good timing on attracting capital to go along with a strong management team.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2086 times:

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 17):

You might want to read this from this morning news:

Surprise surprise I guess. That's a bit shocking looking at Hooters' already serving the route to MCO. We shall see I guess.


User currently offlineAa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3347 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2005 times:

Hooters will not be able to grow much. I doubt you are going to see very many familys jumping on a Hooters plane. Just like they eat at Ruby Tuesday's instead of Hooters, they are going to fly American instead of Hooters.

AAndrew


User currently offlineBravoGolf From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 538 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1987 times:

I have seen a number of families using Hooters out of GYY. I think the Hooters brand is a non issue.

User currently offlineA/c dxer From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 415 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1988 times:

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 22):
Hooters will not be able to grow much. I doubt you are going to see very many familys jumping on a Hooters plane

Yeah, and Hooters Air was supposed too go bust 6 months after starting.  Wink


25 Tornado82 : Many airports Hooters flies to don't have American because American has some kind of weird aversion to non-major cities in the NE quadrant of the US,
26 Flyibaby : People will pay for atmosphere, and Hooters delivers on it. Yes, not everyone will want to take their kids on there, for the rest of us flying, thank
27 B757capt : Hooters does have issues with certain groups but, the archdiocese of Chicago and Denver did not have a problem asking us for tickets.
28 Aa757first : Ok. They'll fly with US Airways instead. That better? American has nonstops to MIA from PHL, which is a nicer airport then ABE anyway. AAndrew
29 Tornado82 : For size, yes. For convenience, HELL no. 2 people who board their plane at the same time in ABE and PHL... the ABE people would probably be flying ov
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