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Northwest Wants A New Airline For Smaller Planes  
User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3096 posts, RR: 10
Posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8717 times:

Courtesy: The Detroit Free Press

NWA Wants To Create A New Airline For Smaller Planes

http://www.freep.com/news/latestnews/pm6357_20050930.htm

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4537 posts, RR: 18
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 8593 times:

I'm trying to decide if that makes sense or not. Is it wise for a company in bankruptcy to try and start up another airline? Or could this increase revenue by not paying the likes of Pinnacle for their service.


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineWeb From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 427 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 8359 times:

I think this would work well. By doing it, NW eliminates disputes over who flies the (hopefully) soon-to-come 70-100 seaters. There will then be three "classes" of flying: regional (<70 seats), large regional (70-100 seats, and mainline (>100 seats); each class having its own seniority ranking, pay scale, etc. Also, with the ARJs leaving the fleet, there is a definate need for the new subsidiary to fill the 70-100 seat gap that will exist.


Next flight: GRR-ORD-PDX-SEA-ORD-GRR
User currently offlineLUVRSW From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 498 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 8219 times:

I think NW is using this as leverage to get the pilots to change the scope clause. NW pilots may end up flying CRJ's and the AVRO's, if they keep them. They may keep little ol' Mesaba around to fly the SAAB's....and maybe sell Pinnacle....after they have been building them up for the last few years??? HMMMM....

User currently offlineSunking737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2038 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7984 times:

Just another way for the RED TAILED SHARK to take another bite out of the employees pay.


Just an MSPAVGEEK
User currently offlineM404 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2224 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7970 times:
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Think you've got it reversed.


They want to start another carrier to replace the Mesaba AVROs with new 2nd gen RJs of 70-100 seats and make sure they are not flown by mainline crews. This would insure that they did not use mainline gates and ground handlers. This would also allow them to get rid of any mainline personnel that might be at some stations they went into. They want mainline pilots to forgo the scope clause upwards. Probably to 100 or above only. The pilots likely have until the end of November to decide to honor that or have their contract abrogated by the BK judge which they have already reportedly readied the paperwork.

The IAM personnel were given the same kind of deal. Sign off all scope, job security, part time, classification, and full rights to subcontract all IAM jobs. Or else.



Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
User currently offlineSunking737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2038 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7954 times:

No I have it right NW just wants to mess over all the employees even more then they have all ready.


If you take care of your employees, they will take care of you. You screw them and they will screw you.



Just an MSPAVGEEK
User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3010 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7929 times:

Sunking737: No matter what your political outlook is, what you said is right. Companies have to place employees higher on their priorities list.


Finally made it to an airline mecca!
User currently offlineM404 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2224 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 7922 times:
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Sunking - Chill I was refering to LUVRSW's input not yours.

That they want to screw with employees is obvious. It's the "How" I was detailing. As for the employees screwing them back - how? No Union, no rights, no nets at all, no matter which we sign with our without the union. The only was employees will screw them is the performance of the uncommitted 3rd party low-bid contractors they get to be replacements, We've already seen how they work as we waste a lot of our own productivity protecting the company and the passenger for their own totally detached ineptitude now.



Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
User currently offlineSunking737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2038 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 7873 times:

Sorry guys, Its just that I used to work for the old Republic, and I have a family member who stayed after the RC/NW and he just retired 30 June after 25 years.

being that I live in the MSP area, I see and hear about NW all the time.

I would still be at RC if NWA had not bought them out. I got tired of the games being played my NW, so I left.

Unions are very good they get the employees what the employee needs, good pay and alike. But the unions should stick together, it should not be AMFA, vs IAM, vs ALPHA.

The thing that hurt NW was the buy out in 1989 taking NW private. The Wilson group bleed NW DRY. They own every airplane, now all are leased.

Wilson and Company were still sell stock in NW right up to filling Chap 11. The BK court, and the unions should go after every penny they took out.

If NW starts a another smaller airline, soon that smaller carrier will become the "NEW NWA" the old one will be gone. With No unions !!!

Just my .2



Just an MSPAVGEEK
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6449 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 7870 times:

Quoting LUVRSW (Reply 3):
....and maybe sell Pinnacle

They sold Pinnacle a few years ago.


User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7533 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5946 times:

This was proposed in the last set of pay reductions, its basically just what NW wanted the first time.


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineLUVRSW From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 498 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5759 times:

I guess I was thinking that the NW pilots would gladly fly CRJ's, AVRO's, for lower pay, as long as they keep their jobs...but I guess XJ/9e is even cheaper for NW? Side Note: Burnsie, what a load of crap the NCAA is trying to pull with the Sioux name/mascot.

User currently offlineSkibum9 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1229 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5690 times:

This is nothing really new. In fact, NW proposed this new subsidiary many months ago in negotiations with the pilots, and at the time called the new subsidiary NEWCO.


Tailwinds!!!
User currently offline7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5455 times:

Is it possible or would it be possible for NW to simply to "convert" to a LCC type of carrier and keep its international network much like the new US is doing? Frankly, i see NW running into problems with some of its fleet, especially the DC-9s.


The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
User currently offlineMeister808 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 973 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5360 times:

You can definitely see this kind of development coming, since NW is pretty much trying real hard to run XJ into the ground and is shrinking 9E significantly. Of course, the interesting thing is that, even though neither own their own airplanes, XJ could almost see itself in a situation to acquire some, break off of NW, and have a fairly successful market in the upper midwest/upper plains, especially if it contracted with UA, CO, or someone else that has a weak presence up here.

Side note: Yes, it is a load of crap, a big one. Go Sioux.

-Meister



Twin Cessna 812 Victor, Minneapolis Center, we observe your operation in the immediate vicinity of extreme precipitation
User currently offlineM404 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2224 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5292 times:
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I'll bet XJ will bid to replace all the NW groundworkers phased out at spoke stations as well as bid on any new aircraft flying. Couldn't hurt to try and (just from what I've seen) they would do a better job on the ground than Pinnacle which embarassingly enough was owned by NW.


Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
User currently offlineBucky707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1028 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5281 times:

Quoting Web (Reply 2):
There will then be three "classes" of flying: regional (<70 seats), large regional (70-100 seats, and mainline (>100 seats); each class having its own seniority ranking, pay scale, etc

actually, this is only partially true. The "newco" to fly the 70-100 seat aircraft will initially be staffed by NW furloughed pilots who will have complete ability to flow up to mainline NW when the timie comes. I think the same will also apply to new hires at the "newco", they will be able to flow up to mainline NW when their time comes. However, there will be seperate pay scales, work rules, etc. More importantly they will be able to hire seperate flight attendants, mechanics, etc, all at a different scale than mainline.


User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5242 times:

As opposed to NWA "screwing the employees", I look at this more as "keeping NWA solvent and profitable into the future". One big problem NWA had was the huge number of gas guzzling 100 seaters (DC-9's) being flown at mainline pay and benefits. Also, the Avro configured with 69 seats is not particulary viable economically. Replacing both the Avro's and DC9's with new 70-100 seat planes in a below-mainline pay scale is the only way NW can stay solvent.

Furloughed employees will have first dibs on positions in the new airline.


If staying profitable screws the employees, thats a shame. It would be more a shame if NWA went under and no one had a job.



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineAwysBSB From Brazil, joined Sep 2005, 561 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5211 times:

It doesn’t seems prudent NWA create a brand new carrier based at DTW or MSP, whereas this corporation needs to strengthen its services to destinations of the Southeast by it self, and not by code-shares.
NWA Corp had better if its new airline was based at MEM or TPA and served not only destinations of the Southeastern USA, but of Mexico and Caribbean too.


User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4234 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5170 times:

This sounds all to similar to USAirways with Midatlantic for the EMB-170 flying. And we all know how that turned out.

User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5162 times:

I smell Embraer. Anybody else?

User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5127 times:

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 21):
I smell Embraer. Anybody else?

I sure as heck hope so. If NW goes with CRJ-700/900 , i'll never fly them again  Smile



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineNorthwestair From Poland, joined Jul 2001, 648 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4949 times:

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 18):
Furloughed employees will have first dibs on positions in the new airline.

That was my idea when I sent my e-mail to Steenland. Just tell us that we will be paid this x amount of $ per hour and you can take it or leave it.



I don't care who you fly just as long as you fly
User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4955 times:

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 22):
I sure as heck hope so. If NW goes with CRJ-700/900 , i'll never fly them again

The biggest thing Bombardier has to offer is the CRJ-900, which can somewhat comfortably seat 90 passengers. Embraer on the short end has the 170 which can comfortably seat 70, all the way up to the 195 which can seat 118 (according to Embraer's website). 118...suitable replacement for (oh not this again...) WHEN WILL NW REPLACE THE DC-9? (yes, I went there). If NW was really going to make a completely new airline, would it not be smart to begin phasing out the 9ers in favor of the Embraer family? Because they aren't using mainline, NW could (and probably would) use a lower payscale, such that the costs of leasing the aircraft would be somewhat absorbed in the lower payscale.


25 FlyGuyDTW : Well I am a recently furloughed AGAIN flight attendant for NW and it has been said we will not have first dibs on those jobs. The Scab Flight Attenda
26 LUVRSW : Sorry to hear that Fly Guy...that really does suck.
27 Braniff727 : Well if the PFAA got its poop together, the would work with ALPA and the IAM to secure a contract to ensure their members are hired by "newco" with r
28 NASCARAirforce : Well that is correct in saying "Red Tailed Shark" since a Red tailed shark is technically a type of catfish, which is a bottom feeder. Northwest has
29 Nwafflyer : I've heard also that NW wants to take all employees out of non-Hub or Focus City operations, and fill all those slots with 3rd party personnel
30 Bobnwa : Where have you heard that, other than a rumor on this board?
31 M404 : Bobnwa Go to IAM district 143 website and read "company Openers" First Page First Para Amend Article "C to expressly recognize the Company's right to
32 Coronado : How about if the pilots and flight attendandts propose a hybrid pay scale in exchange for NWA picking up a bunch of E170-195 --the lower fuel burn is
33 ODwyerPW : yeah, but does anybody know what NorthWest will replace it's DC-9's with? ok, that was just a joke. couldn't pass up the opportunity to flog the decea
34 FlyGuyDTW : Seems they also want to change the job scope of the flight attendants so that they don't fly on the planes with 100 seats or less. They are wanting t
35 FlyGuyDTW : Also NW wants to give all of the flight attendant positions on all Pacific routes including all of them to and from the US to Foreign Nationals and cu
36 Post contains links LUVRSW : http://www.amtonline.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=1854
37 Post contains images Lightsaber : NW has to do major changes to improve efficiency, but I'm not sure "another airline" is really the right long term fix. Here is what I see as NW's iss
38 Boeing7E7 : It's the only way the evil "Red Tailed Shark" will be able to make new 100 seaters profitable. The pilot pay and seniority levels are simply too high
39 M404 : It's the only way the evil "Red Tailed Shark" will be able to make new 100 seaters profitable. The pilot pay and seniority levels are simply too high
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