Indy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4368 posts, RR: 9 Reply 1, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7026 times:
I'm trying to decide if that makes sense or not. Is it wise for a company in bankruptcy to try and start up another airline? Or could this increase revenue by not paying the likes of Pinnacle for their service.
Web From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 423 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6792 times:
I think this would work well. By doing it, NW eliminates disputes over who flies the (hopefully) soon-to-come 70-100 seaters. There will then be three "classes" of flying: regional (<70 seats), large regional (70-100 seats, and mainline (>100 seats); each class having its own seniority ranking, pay scale, etc. Also, with the ARJs leaving the fleet, there is a definate need for the new subsidiary to fill the 70-100 seat gap that will exist.
LUVRSW From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 498 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6652 times:
I think NW is using this as leverage to get the pilots to change the scope clause. NW pilots may end up flying CRJ's and the AVRO's, if they keep them. They may keep little ol' Mesaba around to fly the SAAB's....and maybe sell Pinnacle....after they have been building them up for the last few years??? HMMMM....
Sunking737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1930 posts, RR: 9 Reply 4, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6417 times:
Just another way for the RED TAILED SHARK to take another bite out of the employees pay.
M404 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2213 posts, RR: 5 Reply 5, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6403 times:
Think you've got it reversed.
They want to start another carrier to replace the Mesaba AVROs with new 2nd gen RJs of 70-100 seats and make sure they are not flown by mainline crews. This would insure that they did not use mainline gates and ground handlers. This would also allow them to get rid of any mainline personnel that might be at some stations they went into. They want mainline pilots to forgo the scope clause upwards. Probably to 100 or above only. The pilots likely have until the end of November to decide to honor that or have their contract abrogated by the BK judge which they have already reportedly readied the paperwork.
The IAM personnel were given the same kind of deal. Sign off all scope, job security, part time, classification, and full rights to subcontract all IAM jobs. Or else.
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
Sunking737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1930 posts, RR: 9 Reply 6, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6387 times:
No I have it right NW just wants to mess over all the employees even more then they have all ready.
If you take care of your employees, they will take care of you. You screw them and they will screw you.
GSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2745 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6362 times:
Sunking737: No matter what your political outlook is, what you said is right. Companies have to place employees higher on their priorities list.
M404 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2213 posts, RR: 5 Reply 8, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6355 times:
Sunking - Chill I was refering to LUVRSW's input not yours.
That they want to screw with employees is obvious. It's the "How" I was detailing. As for the employees screwing them back - how? No Union, no rights, no nets at all, no matter which we sign with our without the union. The only was employees will screw them is the performance of the uncommitted 3rd party low-bid contractors they get to be replacements, We've already seen how they work as we waste a lot of our own productivity protecting the company and the passenger for their own totally detached ineptitude now.
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
Sunking737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1930 posts, RR: 9 Reply 9, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6306 times:
Sorry guys, Its just that I used to work for the old Republic, and I have a family member who stayed after the RC/NW and he just retired 30 June after 25 years.
being that I live in the MSP area, I see and hear about NW all the time.
I would still be at RC if NWA had not bought them out. I got tired of the games being played my NW, so I left.
Unions are very good they get the employees what the employee needs, good pay and alike. But the unions should stick together, it should not be AMFA, vs IAM, vs ALPHA.
The thing that hurt NW was the buy out in 1989 taking NW private. The Wilson group bleed NW DRY. They own every airplane, now all are leased.
Wilson and Company were still sell stock in NW right up to filling Chap 11. The BK court, and the unions should go after every penny they took out.
If NW starts a another smaller airline, soon that smaller carrier will become the "NEW NWA" the old one will be gone. With No unions !!!
Bobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5975 posts, RR: 9 Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6303 times:
Burnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7411 posts, RR: 9 Reply 11, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4379 times:
This was proposed in the last set of pay reductions, its basically just what NW wanted the first time.
"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
LUVRSW From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 498 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4192 times:
I guess I was thinking that the NW pilots would gladly fly CRJ's, AVRO's, for lower pay, as long as they keep their jobs...but I guess XJ/9e is even cheaper for NW? Side Note: Burnsie, what a load of crap the NCAA is trying to pull with the Sioux name/mascot.
Skibum9 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1229 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4123 times:
This is nothing really new. In fact, NW proposed this new subsidiary many months ago in negotiations with the pilots, and at the time called the new subsidiary NEWCO.
7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3586 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3888 times:
Is it possible or would it be possible for NW to simply to "convert" to a LCC type of carrier and keep its international network much like the new US is doing? Frankly, i see NW running into problems with some of its fleet, especially the DC-9s.
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
Meister808 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 972 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3793 times:
You can definitely see this kind of development coming, since NW is pretty much trying real hard to run XJ into the ground and is shrinking 9E significantly. Of course, the interesting thing is that, even though neither own their own airplanes, XJ could almost see itself in a situation to acquire some, break off of NW, and have a fairly successful market in the upper midwest/upper plains, especially if it contracted with UA, CO, or someone else that has a weak presence up here.
Side note: Yes, it is a load of crap, a big one. Go Sioux.
-Meister
Twin Cessna 812 Victor, Minneapolis Center, we observe your operation in the immediate vicinity of extreme precipitation
M404 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2213 posts, RR: 5 Reply 16, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3725 times:
I'll bet XJ will bid to replace all the NW groundworkers phased out at spoke stations as well as bid on any new aircraft flying. Couldn't hurt to try and (just from what I've seen) they would do a better job on the ground than Pinnacle which embarassingly enough was owned by NW.
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
Bucky707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1028 posts, RR: 4 Reply 17, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3714 times:
Quoting Web (Reply 2): There will then be three "classes" of flying: regional (<70 seats), large regional (70-100 seats, and mainline (>100 seats); each class having its own seniority ranking, pay scale, etc
actually, this is only partially true. The "newco" to fly the 70-100 seat aircraft will initially be staffed by NW furloughed pilots who will have complete ability to flow up to mainline NW when the timie comes. I think the same will also apply to new hires at the "newco", they will be able to flow up to mainline NW when their time comes. However, there will be seperate pay scales, work rules, etc. More importantly they will be able to hire seperate flight attendants, mechanics, etc, all at a different scale than mainline.
Ejmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3675 times:
As opposed to NWA "screwing the employees", I look at this more as "keeping NWA solvent and profitable into the future". One big problem NWA had was the huge number of gas guzzling 100 seaters (DC-9's) being flown at mainline pay and benefits. Also, the Avro configured with 69 seats is not particulary viable economically. Replacing both the Avro's and DC9's with new 70-100 seat planes in a below-mainline pay scale is the only way NW can stay solvent.
Furloughed employees will have first dibs on positions in the new airline.
If staying profitable screws the employees, thats a shame. It would be more a shame if NWA went under and no one had a job.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
AwysBSB From Brazil, joined Sep 2005, 509 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3644 times:
It doesn’t seems prudent NWA create a brand new carrier based at DTW or MSP, whereas this corporation needs to strengthen its services to destinations of the Southeast by it self, and not by code-shares.
NWA Corp had better if its new airline was based at MEM or TPA and served not only destinations of the Southeastern USA, but of Mexico and Caribbean too.
Apodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3635 posts, RR: 6 Reply 20, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3603 times:
This sounds all to similar to USAirways with Midatlantic for the EMB-170 flying. And we all know how that turned out.
Ejmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3560 times:
Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 21): I smell Embraer. Anybody else?
I sure as heck hope so. If NW goes with CRJ-700/900 , i'll never fly them again
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
DLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 24, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3388 times:
Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 22): I sure as heck hope so. If NW goes with CRJ-700/900 , i'll never fly them again
The biggest thing Bombardier has to offer is the CRJ-900, which can somewhat comfortably seat 90 passengers. Embraer on the short end has the 170 which can comfortably seat 70, all the way up to the 195 which can seat 118 (according to Embraer's website). 118...suitable replacement for (oh not this again...) WHEN WILL NW REPLACE THE DC-9? (yes, I went there). If NW was really going to make a completely new airline, would it not be smart to begin phasing out the 9ers in favor of the Embraer family? Because they aren't using mainline, NW could (and probably would) use a lower payscale, such that the costs of leasing the aircraft would be somewhat absorbed in the lower payscale.
25 FlyGuyDTW: Well I am a recently furloughed AGAIN flight attendant for NW and it has been said we will not have first dibs on those jobs. The Scab Flight Attenda
26 LUVRSW: Sorry to hear that Fly Guy...that really does suck.
27 Braniff727: Well if the PFAA got its poop together, the would work with ALPA and the IAM to secure a contract to ensure their members are hired by "newco" with r
28 NASCARAirforce: Well that is correct in saying "Red Tailed Shark" since a Red tailed shark is technically a type of catfish, which is a bottom feeder. Northwest has
29 Nwafflyer: I've heard also that NW wants to take all employees out of non-Hub or Focus City operations, and fill all those slots with 3rd party personnel
30 Bobnwa: Where have you heard that, other than a rumor on this board?
31 M404: Bobnwa Go to IAM district 143 website and read "company Openers" First Page First Para Amend Article "C to expressly recognize the Company's right to
32 Coronado: How about if the pilots and flight attendandts propose a hybrid pay scale in exchange for NWA picking up a bunch of E170-195 --the lower fuel burn is
33 ODwyerPW: yeah, but does anybody know what NorthWest will replace it's DC-9's with? ok, that was just a joke. couldn't pass up the opportunity to flog the decea
34 FlyGuyDTW: Seems they also want to change the job scope of the flight attendants so that they don't fly on the planes with 100 seats or less. They are wanting t
35 FlyGuyDTW: Also NW wants to give all of the flight attendant positions on all Pacific routes including all of them to and from the US to Foreign Nationals and cu
37 Lightsaber: NW has to do major changes to improve efficiency, but I'm not sure "another airline" is really the right long term fix. Here is what I see as NW's iss
38 Boeing7E7: It's the only way the evil "Red Tailed Shark" will be able to make new 100 seaters profitable. The pilot pay and seniority levels are simply too high
39 M404: It's the only way the evil "Red Tailed Shark" will be able to make new 100 seaters profitable. The pilot pay and seniority levels are simply too high
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