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Swiss To Link Heathrow And Geneva Again  
User currently offlineCambrian From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 619 posts, RR: 5
Posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4653 times:

I had an email from Swiss today. They are going to relaunch LX operated flights between LHR and GVA- on Saturdays only(!). It is "replacing" the Sion route which will not operate this winter, frequencies as follows:

Day From To Depart Arrive
Saturday London Heathrow Geneva 12.50 15.35
Saturday London Heathrow Geneva 18.10 20.50
Saturday Geneva London Heathrow 11.20 12.10
Saturday Geneva London Heathrow 16.35 17.25


This is not going to make much difference to regular travellers on this route. I can only assume that this is an interim measure until Swiss can acquire the slots to resume multiple daily frequencies on this important route.

Now that the BA codeshare is over, the lack of LX flights on this route leaves a massive hole in its network. Let's hope to see this route reinstated to its former frequency.

55 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24816 posts, RR: 56
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4634 times:

Quite possibly winter only ski charter flights?


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineRJ100 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2000, 4114 posts, RR: 30
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4613 times:

Maybe they just don't want to do ferry flights to/from Sion which is expensive. So they fly the passengers to GVA and bus them to SIR.

Regards,
RJ100



none
User currently offlineCambrian From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 619 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4580 times:

I interpreted the mail as LX getting its toe back in the water as far as GVA is concerned, and also a way of putting a positive spin on the end of the SIR flights. They never operated a twice-daily SIR service anyway, did they?

User currently offlineLegacy135 From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 1052 posts, RR: 27
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4503 times:

So we see another Swiss destination disappearing on the route map for ever..... after LUG (remains with code share only) and BRN they wont fly to SIR either anymore. I thought this was a "National Airline" paid by tax money of all cantons. It shows now more and more to be a "Zürich Intl Air Lines" as BSL will disappear probably as well.
It's a shame for our national airline business, but hopefully a chance for some new operators.


User currently offlineCambrian From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 619 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4485 times:

Quoting Legacy135 (Reply 4):
So we see another Swiss destination disappearing on the route map for ever.

Yes, it is ironic, as only last week on the Swiss website, in the "Your Switzerland" section, I was reading about Sion, and it was described an important transport hub, with an international airport...


User currently offlinePipoA380 From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 1594 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4481 times:
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From when? I am in London and flying home to GVA on Saturday! It's a pain in the @ss to go through ZRH...


It's not about AIRBUS. it's not about BOEING. It's all about the beauty of FLYING.
User currently offlineLegacy135 From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 1052 posts, RR: 27
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4458 times:

Quoting PipoA380 (Reply 6):
From when? I am in London and flying home to GVA on Saturday! It's a pain in the @ss to go through ZRH...

That's what they made with our tax money to create "our" airline:

GVA and BSL are now mainly served by EasyJet and other foreign companies
LUG gets the local Darwin and from GVA FlyBaboo
BRN gets Darwin and LH
SIR gets....??? in the summer some AirGlaciers Charters and in winter probably FlyBE

But all over it the regional airports like LUG, BRN and SIR as the other national airports as GVA and BSL as their bigger regions are the big loosers in this game. Swiss Intl. is not only concentrating on one hub (which seems logic) they also cut all the feeder flights and the few direct routes from the other Swiss airports (what is not at all logic).
They probably think that by doing so clients will take their flights out of ZRH, but this conclusion is wrong. I only know the situation in BRN but can imagine it quite similar at all the other airports. BRN is at the moment highly interesting for other big carriers and the possibility to see companies as AF, BA or Austrian serving it in the near future are better than ever. I sincerely hope that all other Swiss airports get good services from foreign companies which back up the move away from our former national airline.


User currently offlinePipoA380 From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 1594 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4427 times:
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Quoting Legacy135 (Reply 7):

Unique Airport,
Unique Airline!

It's a pain to tranfer in ZRH. I had no choice, I reserved flights in July for Sept 11th GVA-LHR and Oct 8th LHR-GVA. Now they told me in GVA when checking in that my return flight has been changed. How great. Now it's LHR-ZRH ZRH-GVA. Oh well if it was ZRH-GVA on a Swissair B743, I woudn't have said no! But I had no choice.

BA broke their code share agreement with LX as they are joining Star Alliance. That from Sept. 16th on... Now what? Will Geneva get any flights from Heathrow?

When will these flights be started?



It's not about AIRBUS. it's not about BOEING. It's all about the beauty of FLYING.
User currently offlineLegacy135 From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 1052 posts, RR: 27
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4410 times:

Quoting PipoA380 (Reply 8):
Unique Airport,
Unique Airline!

There are no better words to name it! I think it's big shame that a national airline is not even capable to link two cities as important as London and Geneva together. I think it's hard to find another city around that hosts as many international organizations as Geneva! I remember standing on the apron at GVA and looking at Swissair 747's and DC-10's flying out to the whole world....
Going trough ZRH you may have at least this big pleasure to ride this superfast-cabelcar called a train and all this for free Big grin

I think times for LX will become much harder, specially as they gave up such important airports as GVA and BSL. They are loosing big credibility from their local customers. I think you won't fly to London with them again either.

Take care and have a safe trip on ZRH Intl Air Lines  Wink

Cheers
Legacy135


User currently offlineRJ100 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2000, 4114 posts, RR: 30
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4385 times:

PipoA380: Sorry to hear that. Hopefully LX at least will pay for the massive airport taxes for your flights (probably something like 120 CHF)...


Legacy135:True. But I'm confident that even the smaller airports like LUG and BRN will have a positive future. Seems like Darwin is doing better and better. Good luck to all of them. And I'm sure that KLM, AF etc. are interested as well and they can offer worldwide connections.

I cannot wait to see the official SWISS announcement of the new twice weekly GVA-LHR service. It will be something like "SWISS again expands services to Geneva!!!" (completely forgetting that they have alone this year cut CDG, FCO, LIS with a total of 7 daily flights or so...).  Wink

Going back a few times daily on GVA-LHR is unlikely since

1)they have no slots
2)they dont have money to buy slots (and certainly not for such an unimportant city like GVA  Wink ) (This is ironic by the way...)
3)they will completely get smashed by BA and easy

RJ100



none
User currently offlineHBIHLtoEZE From Switzerland, joined Aug 2004, 280 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4346 times:

Quoting Cambrian (Thread starter):
There are no better words to name it! I think it's big shame that a national airline is not even capable to link two cities as important as London and Geneva together. I think it's hard to find another city around that hosts as many international organizations as Geneva!

While I absolutely agree that it was a shameful deed to sell the LHR slots to BA one should not forget that Swiss does link London with Geneva with four daily flights...ok, they are not from LHR, but LCY - if you are a biz traveller you probably have more advantages from there than to fly from Europe's biggest and notoriously unfriendly, chaotic airport...


Come on, if you bash LX you should also see that there is another side of the coin.



Our battered suitcases were piled on the sidewalk again; we had longer ways to go. But no matter, the road is life.
User currently offlinePipoA380 From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 1594 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4318 times:
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Quoting RJ100 (Reply 10):
PipoA380: Sorry to hear that. Hopefully LX at least will pay for the massive airport taxes for your flights (probably something like 120 CHF)...

I didn't pay anything more and would have refused to do so. They just changed my ticket, no charge except standing in line at the reservation desk for 10 minutes...

This code share was a mess:
I reserved the flight via the LX webpage. Arrived in GVA:

-Went to the Swiss counter, stood in line, they then told me to go to the BA counter.
-At BA counter, stood in line they told me to go to the Swiss reservation desk. Get my "e-ticket"
-Swiss reservation desk after standing in line gave me my "e ticket" that is like any normal ticket... I thought e meant electronic... not for Swiss! They annouced to me that my way back had been changed... told me to come back in 10 minutes
-Back to the BA counter, check-in and boarding pass.... finally!
-Back to the Swiss reservation desk get my new itinerary...

Operation time: 45 minutes to check in on 5 different counters! Thanks Swiss!

-



It's not about AIRBUS. it's not about BOEING. It's all about the beauty of FLYING.
User currently offlineLegacy135 From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 1052 posts, RR: 27
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4271 times:

Quoting PipoA380 (Reply 12):
Operation time: 45 minutes to check in on 5 different counters! Thanks Swiss!

That's probably where their high cost structure results from, needing so much staff at the check in to handel one passenger Big grin

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 10):
Seems like Darwin is doing better and better

From what I got the week before, they are unfortunately flying in a hard competition on the LUG-GVA route with FlyBaboo. It seems that instead of cooperating they try to maneuver each other out of business. Which one of the two airlines is the motor for that I don't know, but they have low loads at ridiculously low yields on this segment.

What I know from BRN it starts to work now after some problems in the beginning. They always flew very reliable but with low loads. They adjust now the schedules and from the beginning on from the winter schedule they shall do LCY twice a day. The routing will be early morning LUG-BRN-LCY and back to BRN. In the evening it goes again BRN-LCY and back LCY-BRN-LUG.
For the winter period this flight will most probably be done by Skywork Airlines on an AMCI for Darwin, using SRK's Do328 HB-AES. So during the day the aircraft will be back at SRK's base in BRN. Darwin on the other side will use the capacity on it's SAAB 2000 on the LUG-ZRH run. What will unfortunately disappear now is the connection from BRN to FCO via LUG as the connections will not work anymore.

From spring 2006 on Darwin will get another SAAB 2000 and bring it back to the LUG-BRN-LCY route. This aircraft will as well rest in BRN over the day, but will be used on an intensive charter program for a local tour operator. They sold flights already for more than 2,7 mio. CHF

By the way, the former sales manager for BRN with Crossair is now with Darwin Big grin ............

................ and LX still wants to tell us that there was no market!

Quoting HBIHLtoEZE (Reply 11):
Geneva with four daily flights...ok, they are not from LHR, but LCY

You are right, I did not think about this. But be thinking about they could have offered a seat on one of those runs to PipoA380 instead of this detour via ZRH.


User currently offlinePipoA380 From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 1594 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4235 times:
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Quoting Legacy135 (Reply 13):
offered a seat on one of those runs to PipoA380 instead of this detour via ZRH

I didn't ask if it was possible, I could've tried to negociate but I am here for work, and I work in Staines, 3 miles south of Heathrow Airport. With loads if luggage (for 1 month), I wanted to take a taxi from ant to the airport, that's why I chose LHR over LCY. I didn't want to take the bus, tube and then train with 30kg of luggage  Smile

But now I think about it, they said the flight changed, I did not let them any time to tell me anything, I told them I wanted it out of Heathrow, he said "of course". So... maybe there was a possibility.



It's not about AIRBUS. it's not about BOEING. It's all about the beauty of FLYING.
User currently offlineRJ100 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2000, 4114 posts, RR: 30
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4201 times:

Thanks for the informations!

I heard about the contract for Darwin from the tour operator. Well done. And the twice daily LCY flight will do better than the current midday flight- I am sure about that.

LUG-GVA is tough. I hope that one carrier is dropping the route in favour of the other. There are enough gaps left in Switzerland.

What do you think about a BRN-BRU service?

Cheers



none
User currently offlineLegacy135 From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 1052 posts, RR: 27
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4177 times:

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 15):
What do you think about a BRN-BRU service?

BRN-BRU could be a lucrative route as there are frequently government employees using this flight as well. The problem on this flight is a little bit the lack of equipment. Crossair used to fly it with success for years, first with CPS Metro III then with their SF340's. As the plane disappeared the flight disappeared.... With an average load of 16 to 20 passengers a SAAB 2000 or similar is simply not profitable, even thought the yields were very good.

We had this unprofessional experience last year with German EAE starting BRU again with a Golden Air SF340 twice a day as also DUS twice daily. After six weeks only they were up to 16 pax average, then they cancelled from one day to the other as they could use the capacity in Germany. Such "Intermezzos" as also the one of Cirrus last winter with the DoJet on the BRN-THF and BRN-VIE are pure poison for the market. What you get to hear then from the customers is things like "Bern is unreliable..." It's not BRN, we unfortunately sometimes have to deal with very unprofessional operators. Intersky did BRN-THF and BRN-VIE quiet successful, but the flights were to long for the relatively slow Dash-8. They could use it more profitable on flights from FDH to destinations as Cologne, Prague, Venice etc as they could do 4 flights per plane/day versus the 3 flights/plane/day out of BRN. So they gave the flights over to Cirrus. Cirrus Started their runs on January 10th and cancelled on March 13th. In this period they had 41 (!!!) cancellations. The reasons: Copilot sick, APU unservicabel, Miss Captain does not know how to start APU etc. You can't imagine! Finally after they cancelled, the plane got right the day after a daily corporate shuttle between CIA and Coventry. What a coincidence!

You see, in BSL happened strange things the last two years, but in BRN also  Wink Anyhow, I think we are over the worst and it goes up again!

Cheers
Legacy135


User currently offlineRJ100 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2000, 4114 posts, RR: 30
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4130 times:

Quoting Legacy135 (Reply 16):
Anyhow, I think we are over the worst and it goes up again!

That's for sure. And flyBe has some seasonal flights to BRN as well!

I hope that they will move into the SIR market as well after SWISS abandons that place.

Regards,
RJ100



none
User currently offlineLegacy135 From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 1052 posts, RR: 27
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4110 times:

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 17):
That's for sure. And flyBe has some seasonal flights to BRN as well!

Did you see the full programm? On Saturdays they are talking now about 5 RJ100's (3 FlyBE, 2 Titan) 4 Q400 (all FlyBE) and one F70 of Malev. Not to bad, if you consider that this winter about 70% of the British tourists goint to the "Oberland" by plane will come trough BRN. I just have my thoughts about how they will handle it: Between 11:05 and 11:50 alone we shall see 2 RJ100 and 2 Q400 making up a potential of over 320 inward and 320 outward passengers. If you consider that there is on scanner, one baggage belt maybe 7 meters long...... let's hope the best! At least staff and management are very motivated to handel this challenge.

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 17):
I hope that they will move into the SIR market as well after SWISS abandons that place

They did it already and I hope they come back this winter as well. I was in SIR lately and could spot quite some nice brandnew equipement. So I guess they are preparing  Wink


User currently offlineGerardo From Spain, joined May 2000, 3481 posts, RR: 32
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4069 times:

What? They scrap Sion? And I hoped to see Montevideo-Sion-Wladiwostok finally running!

Get serious, folks!!



dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
User currently offlineCambrian From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 619 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4022 times:

Forgot to mention- the email said that the new service would start at the beginning of the Winter timetable- end of October.

User currently offlineSaab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1609 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3975 times:

I hope I get to go back to fly in Switzerland again. I still miss it there! I check all the CH-threads here. Good luck to all the operators there. I still have a lot of friends at SWISS and at Darwin (Really bad name for an airline).


smrtrthnu
User currently offlineRunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2155 posts, RR: 36
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3966 times:

Quoting Cambrian (Reply 20):
Forgot to mention- the email said that the new service would start at the beginning of the Winter timetable- end of October.

If that is the case it doesn't give much time to market the new service (even though such a service wouldn't get too much attention). 4 weeks seems quite short notice knowing that most airlines on regional flights need at least 6 weeks to let everyone know.


User currently offlineLegacy135 From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 1052 posts, RR: 27
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3969 times:

Quoting Saab2000 (Reply 21):
Darwin (Really bad name for an airline).

You are not alone with this  Wink
Somebody explained me lately, that his name was coming from an English Gentlemen named Charles Darwin, who defined the modern theory of evolution in the 19th century. So hopefully Darwin Airlines is going trough this evolution and will have lots of success!
By the way, if you'd like to fly again in "LS..." skies, there were several occasions lately Darwin was recruiting pilots. Obvioulsy payment isn't bad and living in the sunny Ticino is quite good as well Big grin

Good luck and blue skies
Legacy135


User currently offlineRJ100 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2000, 4114 posts, RR: 30
Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3859 times:

Quoting Gerardo (Reply 19):
What? They scrap Sion? And I hoped to see Montevideo-Sion-Wladiwostok finally running!

Get serious, folks!!

But you keep supporting ZRH-Tripolis flights with 30 pax aboard? Quite a strange statement...

Really strange too that Crossair operated these flights for years if it was so loss making.

But well, what the heck. flybe and BACX will be pleased with that announcement.

Cheers,
RJ100



none
25 Dens : Very strange that Swiss stopped LHR-SIR... I flew this route 3 times and it was always full and it was always more than 500 Swiss Francs for the retur
26 HBIHLtoEZE : Hey guys, come on. Whatever Swiss does you think they are doing it wrong. It appears as if all of your comments were founded on personal experience a
27 RJ100 : But why even connecting in ZRH if you have LH, BA, SK, AF etc. etc. ? There is the BIG mistake of LX! And why flying LX to GVA if you have flybe to SI
28 HBIHLtoEZE : RJ100, criticism is more than welcome, and believe me, I am the last who blindly takes everything that is done. well, because there are more connectio
29 RJ100 : I have nothing against opening the service to GVA. But they think the current customers to SIR will use this flight which is a misconception. It work
30 Post contains images HBIHLtoEZE : What I have always wondered is if indeed foreign carriers with a hub stepped in. I know that LCCs have grown massively and impressively in GVA - but
31 RJ100 : Malev, Iberia, Air Nostrum, SAS, KLM. I am sure the Geneva members can add some more... True. Like I have said, LX lost the whole market in BSL. And
32 HBIHLtoEZE : RJ100: So why do you think the routes out of BSL are axed? Just because SWISS does not understand airline management and is willing to show Zurich arr
33 ZRH : I have to second that. Network carriers won't be able in the future to compete LCCs with their own metal on routes between non-hub airports. They hav
34 RJ100 : Because they are in the misbelief that if you drop routes ex BSL and GVA that these passengers simply fly from ZRH. Look, Swissair has done the same
35 SWISSER : Really? I think with that statement you again said your biggest pain in the ass Thomas! SWISS in no CROSSAIR anymore! Look what happened to the remai
36 RJ100 : I actually was serious about that since we would have clear results on the performance then. We had enough discussions about Swissair-Crossair etc. a
37 HBIHLtoEZE : Hey RJ100, what I think is exaggerated is your aversion against ZRH. What happened before the age of deregulation is not so important anymore. And now
38 Post contains images RJ100 : I have no aversion against Zurich at all. That's the problem of many of you. Criticising SWISS and Swiss aviation politics is =criticising Zurich and
39 ZRH : You think it is an ideology? If it was, these people would have to be dismissed without period of notice (fristlose Kündigung). I really don't think
40 RJ100 : If they would do so then there would not much remain in ZRH believe me. Or do you really think that the losses in the SWISS company are due to the fe
41 HBIHLtoEZE : Hey RJ100, As you said now with LH in power the times of the political decisions are over. I just can not follow you when insisting on the regional pa
42 RJ100 : Yes I believe that you can succesfully operate regional flights. But I dont want to discuss that here. Funny thing is that never ever someone thinks a
43 HBIHLtoEZE : Ok, thank you for your points, RJ100, I really appreciate your (strong) opinion, I however do not think LH is going to reduce SWISS' long haul routes
44 Post contains images Legacy135 : ....and they didn't stop any flights at all, they just replaced them with flights to ZRH Come on please, this can't be serious! One big mistake the L
45 HBIHLtoEZE : Legacy135: I absolutely agree with you that Swiss' launch was very badly managed and that it took time to find a suitable strategy. In my opinion they
46 Post contains images Cambrian : Sorry to intrude here, guys. Just a few thoughts: The idea that LX is "replacing" Sion flights with a flight to GVA is simply ludicrous- airline marke
47 RJ100 : I need to second that. And to give you an example: My dad is currently in the air from FRA to BSL on Lufthansa (originating in EWR). He is a frequent
48 Post contains images Legacy135 : I absolutey do agree with you that we shouldn't bash them, before they could show what they are able for. As politics was involved from the beginning
49 Dens : Come on Swiss guys! Always when there is a topic concerning Switzerland we can read the same post. Please, stop it!!! It is an aviation forum not a po
50 HBIHLtoEZE : Legacy135 You earn my respect! cheers
51 Post contains images Legacy135 : Bye the way, I've been to SIR today on a "Coffee-Flight" with the light aircraft. They will get FlyBE again in winter, once on Saturday with the RJ100
52 RJ100 : That's great! Well done SIR!!! RJ100
53 Standby87 : It's a shame LX isn't going into Sion again for winter, but it makes more sense to fly GVA-LHR again. By the way, something I appreciate about Swiss p
54 Cambrian : I am not Swiss, but I visit Switzerland regularly. When I get back to the UK and experience the mess that is Heathrow, not to mention the incredibly
55 Dens : How do you know that Flybaboo is coming to Sion this Winter? According to British travel agencies websites (Inghams and Crystal), there will have fli
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