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French General Strike 04/05 October.  
User currently offlineBDKLEZ From Ireland, joined Jun 2005, 1735 posts, RR: 10
Posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2034 times:

Well, here we are again. European airlines announcing possible major disruption due to ATC staff joining their union colleagues in a national public sector workers walk-out. FR already announced 72 (seventy two) sectors cancelled and U2 to assess the situation as the night/morning progresses.
Eurocontrol issuing slots up to 2/3 hours for certain sectors still scheduled to operate into or out of or through French airspace. It could end up being a huge can of worms, but it could be nothing. We shall see!!

 scratchchin   scratchchin   scratchchin 


Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2023 times:

Ahh, strike season in France...

At least it's announced.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineKabAir From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 245 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1997 times:

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 1):
Ahh, strike season in France...

Yes, you know, in the USA the national pastime is baseball. In Canada it's hockey. And in France it's going on strike.  Smile (All in good humor my French friends)



wow, there sure are a lot of expert economists on this forum....
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21417 posts, RR: 60
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1991 times:

Quoting KabAir (Reply 2):
All in good humor my French friends

Except that the French strikers can get very violent, so it's not that funny.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineAa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3345 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1982 times:

Thank God in the USA ATC staff cannot legally strike. Europeans should get clauses like that in their contracts. Air travel is too important to be crippled for hours, or days, because someone wants an extra $2 an hour.

AAndrew


User currently offlineBDKLEZ From Ireland, joined Jun 2005, 1735 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1978 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 3):
Except that the French strikers can get very violent,

I think "militant" would be a more appropriate word than violent, however I find it very frustrating yet again to be facing the possible consequences of such action. It is commendable that workers are permitted to strike, it's their right as a union member, but why is it that it we see it so frequenly in France?

Perhaps someone can shed some light on this for me. Forgive me all French folks who may contribute to this debate, but in search of enlightenment, I'd like to know why we see so many public (and private) sector workers striking as a result of some, presumably irreconcilable issue?



Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
User currently offlineKabAir From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 245 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1973 times:

Quoting BDKLEZ (Reply 5):
It is commendable that workers are permitted to strike, it's their right as a union member, but why is it that it we see it so frequenly in France?

Well in my humble opinion, this is what you get with an Entitlement/Welfare State. Plain and simple.



wow, there sure are a lot of expert economists on this forum....
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11129 posts, RR: 62
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1973 times:

Quoting BDKLEZ (Reply 5):
I think "militant" would be a more appropriate word than violent

I'm not generalizing, but I would say that -- at least in some instances -- "violent" would definitey be the right word.


User currently offlineBDKLEZ From Ireland, joined Jun 2005, 1735 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1947 times:

Quoting KabAir (Reply 6):
Welfare State

The UK is a Welfare State and one will simply not see mass walk-outs on such a scale as can be seen regularly displayed by the Trade Unions in France.



Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
User currently offlineKabAir From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 245 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1942 times:

Quoting BDKLEZ (Reply 8):
The UK is a Welfare State and one will simply not see mass walk-outs on such a scale as can be seen regularly displayed by the Trade Unions in France.

While true that the UK is a welfare state, they are still a whole lot different than France in the way things operate. As far as I understand things at least. (Although in past times - particularly around the beginning of the century if I recall correctly - strikes were a common occurance in the UK). Ah heck, I'm not a history major so what do I know. But I still maintain that there's an "entitlement attitude" that can come with a welfare state and lead to these strikes. Why France and not England? I guess one can't say for sure.



wow, there sure are a lot of expert economists on this forum....
User currently offlineBDKLEZ From Ireland, joined Jun 2005, 1735 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1936 times:

Quoting KabAir (Reply 9):
(Although in past times - particularly around the beginning of the century if I recall correctly - strikes were a common occurance in the UK)

In fact a little more recent than that. The Miner's Strike of the 80's was in reaction to the governments policy of gradually shutting down the coal industry, and in fairness there was indeed mass unrest, but we've seen nothing on that scale since.



Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1931 times:

The old tourist joke used to be that if you were in London for a weekend you should go to Buckingham Palace to watch the 'Changing of the Guard' - and if you were in Paris the next weekend, you should go to the Champs Elysees to watch the 'Changing of the Government.'

Seriously, though, I take it that this is just a 'two-day wonder' and they'll all be back at work ('refreshed'  Smile) on the 6th.?



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineBDKLEZ From Ireland, joined Jun 2005, 1735 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1930 times:

NOTAM is current and valid until 0500Z on the 5th.


Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1918 times:

France is the only place I have ever heard of where the homeless going on strike to get more welfare.

On a serious note I was there in March when the transportation unions went on strike. We had no idea it was going to happen as we ignored the news while on vacation. We barely got a cab to Eurostar terminal and were one of the last trains out before they shut down the Chunnel. Paris, and the country as a whole, came to a grinding halt from what I read once I got to the other side of the Channel.



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3581 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1902 times:

And I leave for Paris tomorrow for a quick 2 day trip of meetings. I hope they are finished by 9:00 on the 5th.

User currently offlineBDKLEZ From Ireland, joined Jun 2005, 1735 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1894 times:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 14):
And I leave for Paris tomorrow

Lengthy delay, cancellation, diversion....

Expect any one or maybe combination of more than one, of any of the above.

 yes   yes   yes 

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 14):
I hope they are finished by 9:00 on the 5th

Officially it is scheduled for finish at 0700 French local time on Wednesday morning, but dependant upon how the industry is affected over the next 24/36 hours it could take as much as a full day or even several days to get airline travel to/from France back to something that you could consider normal.



Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
User currently offlineToulouse From Switzerland, joined Apr 2005, 2754 posts, RR: 58
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1852 times:

Quoting BDKLEZ (Reply 5):
I think "militant" would be a more appropriate word than violent

Totally agree. Have been living in France for over 3 years now and have never felt in danger.

Quoting BDKLEZ (Reply 5):
Perhaps someone can shed some light on this for me. Forgive me all French folks who may contribute to this debate, but in search of enlightenment, I'd like to know why we see so many public (and private) sector workers striking as a result of some, presumably irreconcilable issue?

KabAir is right...

Quoting KabAir (Reply 6):
Well in my humble opinion, this is what you get with an Entitlement/Welfare State. Plain and simple.

As I said you're right, in my opinion. Now, while most European states are of the walfare state type, strikes seem to be much more common in the Mediterranean countries (France, Spain, Italy, maybe Greece in particular).
In the case of France, and as a foreigner who has lived in numerous different coutries, I must say the standard/quality of living in France (despite current economic dip in the economy, which does seem to have started upward on the improvement curve), is much higher in France than anywhere else I have been. I often say to my French friends when I hear them complaining about France and saying things must be better in other countries, I say "Mais non!" and compare them with spoiled children (no offence my French friends). Basically, the French are quite spoiled, and they know that when they want something, all they have to do is winge and whine and basically pressure the government, and it usually works out. France has an incredible public (state) health system, said to be amongst, if not, the best in the world. Public services work very well and efficiently (when not on strike!), and there is a huge range of benefits for people (I spoke to a British and a Spanish social worker recently in France who are friends, and they told me that the benefits available to people in France are far superior to anything available in the UK or Spain, and that there is actually so much available, that people are often unaware of everything available). Excellent working conditions and lots of paid holidays. All this along with the beautiful countryside, natural and historic heritage, climate, wine and food... well France is a great place!

Quoting Commavia (Reply 7):
I'm not generalizing, but I would say that -- at least in some instances -- "violent" would definitey be the right word.

Granted, yet Corsica is a bit of a different story.

Quoting KabAir (Reply 9):
Why France and not England? I guess one can't say for sure.

As I said above. England might be a welfare state, but the health system is a joke, education isn't much better, public systems... well just look at the railways. So basically, the British (like most of us) maybe are just aware that their government will not be swayed as easily by public pressure as the French.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 11):
The old tourist joke used to be that if you were in London for a weekend you should go to Buckingham Palace to watch the 'Changing of the Guard' - and if you were in Paris the next weekend, you should go to the Champs Elysees to watch the 'Changing of the Government.'

Never heard that one... have heard similar joke about Italy (no offence, I'm part Italian). Might you have confused France with Italy?

Quoting BDKLEZ (Reply 12):
Paris, and the country as a whole, came to a grinding halt

Wow, last March, and me living here in Toulouse and totally unaffected. Now, May 2003... that was a different story!


That's my 2 cents anyway. And before you anti-unionists and American friends flame me... I am not defending strikes... I hate them, can't stand strikes, but just giving my opinion on the French system.



Long live Aer Lingus!
User currently offlineSq212 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 272 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1837 times:

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 1):
Ahh, strike season in France...

Strike is Boeing machinist pass time, at least am glad that Airbus machinist is behaving well.

Cheers


User currently offlineB707321C From Norway, joined Sep 2005, 172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1836 times:

Quoting KabAir (Reply 6):
Quoting BDKLEZ (Reply 5):
It is commendable that workers are permitted to strike, it's their right as a union member, but why is it that it we see it so frequenly in France?

Well in my humble opinion, this is what you get with an Entitlement/Welfare State. Plain and simple.

It has nothing to do with a welfare state etc. It is cultural. In my humble option I believe the French people really cares and are willing to speak up. Very different from the US, where most people don’t care or know what is going on.


User currently offlineToulouse From Switzerland, joined Apr 2005, 2754 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1834 times:

Quoting B707321C (Reply 18):
It has nothing to do with a welfare state etc. It is cultural. In my humble option I believe the French people really cares and are willing to speak up.

Very well put B70731C, and I think you may be just right, despite my rant a couple of posts ago. Probable does have nothing to do with living in a welfare state. Simply the French want, expect and demand a certain standard/quality of life.



Long live Aer Lingus!
User currently offlineSebolino From France, joined May 2001, 3675 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1822 times:

Quoting KabAir (Reply 6):
this is what you get with an Entitlement/Welfare State. Plain and simple.

Plain and totally wrong.
Denmark is a much more generous state than France, and is not famous for his strikes.
The problem is sometimes explained by the too powerful state. People (especially the unions) react naturally stronger. The lack of real social discussions leads to the social fight.


User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1678 times:

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 16):
Wow, last March, and me living here in Toulouse and totally unaffected. Now, May 2003... that was a different story!

Hmm...blame the British papers for that misreporting then. We were gone by the time the strike was in full swing. I heard that the subways, bus system, trains, and a good chunk of flights out of CDG and Orly were down.



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineMarshalN From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2005, 1521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1670 times:

Hmmm, I guess by the time my plane lands in NCE at 0900 on the 6th, it should be cleared up by then. Fingers crossed!

User currently offlineBDKLEZ From Ireland, joined Jun 2005, 1735 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1660 times:

B707321C, just for clarification, the second part of the text quoted in your reply 18 was not from myself, but by Kabair in reply 9.


Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
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