CV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (10 years 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4285 times:
It looks to me that after NW and DL filled CH. 11 for banckrupcy protection only AA and CO are the ones that keep going on???
I've seen a lot of bad experiences when they talk about AA and CO but infact these two airlines keep going on without CH. 11. I think we must give them our aplause! What do you have to say about that when we see UA, US still protected with that CH 11 and now joined by NW and DL, two quite strong airlines and with a great heritage behind???
Commavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 12845 posts, RR: 61
Reply 8, posted (10 years 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4005 times:
Quoting Airbazar (Reply 4): There's no way AA and CO will be able to compete with the new, leaner, post BK, UA, DL, and NW.
Another quote right out of the "conventional wisdom"--"Wall Street expert"--"expert analyst" playbook. Why is it so inconceivable that American and Continental will be able to compete effectively -- and profitably -- with the likes of bankrupt Delta, bankrupt Northwest, and bankrupt United? After all -- they are all bankrupt!!!, so I think American and Continental are doing something right.
Everybody has been saying the same thing for three years -- since United filed. American -- generally considered the biggest direct competitor to United -- would have "no way...to compete" against a "new, leaner, post [bankruptcy]...United," and thus they would have to file.
Guess what. United is now coming up on three years in bankruptcy. They are still under court protection, they have slashed their workforce, cut wages, axed their employees pensions. American, by contrast, has never filed for bankruptcy, is still faithfully paying into its employees pension plans, and is profitable. And, after three years of being in "fix-all" bankruptcy, Americans's costs are still lower than United's!
Quoting Airbazar (Reply 4): Especially without shedding their respective pension obligations.
Uh, American spends less per annum, per employee, on its pension plans than Southwest spends on theirs. American's plans aren't going anywhere anytime soon.
Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 5): Really? Because if I'm correct, AA and CO were the only two airlines to post a profit last quarter.
Right you are, JFKLGANYC. I guess that shoots the whole convential wisdom "you have to be bankrupt to be truly competitive" theory to death.
Cory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2730 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (10 years 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3930 times:
Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 7): Out of the big six tho, AA is the only legacy airline to NEVER be in CH 11 (knock wood)
People continually say this (and this is nothing against you personally, Alex), but in all honestly, it's not really too fair to include CO's bankruptcies from the early and mid-90s with the present slew of airlines in Chapter 11. When CO filed bankruptcy over 10 years ago, the other legacy carriers were making money - CO's management was simply atrocious and CO was losing tons and tons of cash. Gordon Bethune showed up and seriously turned the company around, finally leading it to profitability.
Honestly, I think the only fair way to compare is to talk about bankruptcies post-September 11th, which is a totally different environment, so in that regard, I applaud both AA and CO.