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AS = Pork Barrel/Salmon Filet Politics  
User currently offlineAeroman62 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 158 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3313 times:

Just watched ABC news, apparently the AS salmon bird paint job and related costs were paid by....all of us hard working, American tax payers, to the tune of $500,000..... (or so says ABC)! Now I don't know how much it costs to paint a 737-400, but I have to think it is less than half a million dollars. It's a cool plane, however I would have rather seen $500K in tax dollars sent to Louisiana and the Gulf Coast to help hurricane victims - 3000 city employees were laid off today in New Orleans, and yet AS is flying a fishy plane around compliments of the American tax payer. If it indeed costs less than $500K to paint a plane, I'd like to know what AS is doing with the balance....

44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDCrawley From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 371 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3268 times:

I don't know about how you stated this "issue".. but it's a lil different than you realize.. read the whole article, you'll understand why the aircraft cost so much to paint and what's it "actually doing" for the State of Alaska.

http://www.adn.com/front/story/7038924p-6942571c.html

Quote:

..It's a bold promotional move to celebrate wild Alaska seafood and also the carrier's role in hauling millions of pounds of fresh salmon, halibut, crab, shrimp and other seafood out of the state each year..

..A local nonprofit agency, the Alaska Fisheries Marketing Board, gave Alaska Airlines a $500,000 grant to paint the jet. The money came out of about $29 million in federal funding U.S. Sen. Ted Stevens of Alaska and his congressional colleagues have appropriated to the marketing board, created in 2003, to promote and enhance the value of Alaska seafood..

The state's commercial salmon industry has struggled for years due to competition from foreign, farm-raised salmon, but the promotional dollars are helping the industry make a comeback, said Bill Hines, the marketing board's executive director..




"Weather at our destination is 50 degrees with some broken clouds, but they'll try to have them fixed before we arrive."
User currently offlineAeroman62 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 158 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3242 times:

An airplane painted as a fish isn't going to revive the Alaskan fishing industry - I don't mind the plane, I just question if this was the best use of the dollars when there are other more serious things going on in the lower 48, not to mention elsewhere in the world.

User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5951 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3178 times:
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Aeroman62...some of your tax dollars are going to an alligator farm in Louisiana. Are you saying that's a good cause for our tax dollars???

User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3163 times:

Quoting Aeroman62 (Reply 2):
An airplane painted as a fish isn't going to revive the Alaskan fishing industry

I couldn't agree more-it's preposterous...I watched every episode of Deadliest Catch on Discovery Channel....a lot of those guys lost their jobs at the end of the series because of crab quotas....

I am sure that when one of those dudes is sitting on the dock wondering where in the hell his next check is gonna come from and what on earth use there is for an unemployed fisherman, they'll feel good seeing that waste of money go flying by.

It's as useless as thinking that if you paint an airplane like a corncob you're going to save the American farmer...


User currently offlineIRelayer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 1073 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3147 times:

Quoting Aeroman62 (Reply 2):
An airplane painted as a fish isn't going to revive the Alaskan fishing industry - I don't mind the plane, I just question if this was the best use of the dollars when there are other more serious things going on in the lower 48, not to mention elsewhere in the world.

Stranger things have happened :P No of course its not going to "revive it" but painting an entire airplane that goes up and down the west coast gives them a lot of exposure for not that much money (in the scheme of things). Just because it doesn't effect you doesn't mean its wrong. You know how many millions upon millions of dollars the US government spends on advertising in a given year...not to mention all of the things that are even more useless than advertising. This is just typical media hype caused by its visibility. Alaska is simply getting money in return for giving up one of its planes for advertising. Same as any TV, radio, billboard, internet, entity getting that money from the feds to promote this or that. Unfortunately this is the system we have and at times it is damned inefficient and things like this come up constantly. It works well if you consider the sheer size of the US though and if you realize that no system is perfect. My point: don't make a mountain out of a molehole like the media seems so fond of doing.

-IR


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21588 posts, RR: 59
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3125 times:

No different than all the other promotional boards set up around the country to make you wonder if you "got milk" or if you've tried "pork, the other white meat" or if you knew about "beef, it's what's for dinner" or even if you knew that "happy cows come from California." All of it uses taxpayer money, all of it dumb.

But at least they are spending the money on an airplane! Would you rather they painted a bunch of greyhound buses?  Wink



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29840 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3123 times:

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 4):
I watched every episode of Deadliest Catch on Discovery Channel

Right before I got laid off, the company I worked for flew the camera crew ot to DUT to film that. in the opening show you can see the guys deboarding a blue Metro, that was our airplane.

I used to work with one of the guys that was on the SAGA in that series. Those guys get laid off the boat at the end of every season. Most of them, once they are done raping Alaskan waters, go home to Seattle.

And as far as the fish, it is an advertisement and fact is that a marketing institute exists to market. They figure the fish paint will be good for the next 5 years, so figure that fish is costing 100K a year. Any ad execs want to chime in and compare that to what a year long campaign in a major magazine or commericals on all the networks would run?

As far as the cost, any of you guys ever price out an airbrush artist, because that is about what it took to get that paint job done.


Frankly the $500,000K that the US goverment may or may not have ended up paying for this is but a small down payment for all of the wealth that the lower 48 has stolen from the people of this state.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3096 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 6):
No different than all the other promotional boards set up around the country to make you wonder if you "got milk" or if you've tried "pork, the other white meat" or if you knew about "beef, it's what's for dinner" or even if you knew that "happy cows come from California." All of it uses taxpayer money, all of it dumb.

I hate to call you out on this but the promotions you have identified relative to beef and pork are funded entirely by farmers through what is known as a checkoff-that is, for each animal sold, a certain amount goes to fund promotions as well as educational activities and general improvements that are available to all...it's self funding in other words. Not all farmers are happy about it....

My guess is the "happy cows" campaign is similar....on the other hand this paint job came straight out of Sam's pocket.


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29840 posts, RR: 58
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3081 times:

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 8):
I hate to call you out on this but the promotions you have identified relative to beef and pork are funded entirely by farmers through what is known as a checkoff-that is, for each animal sold, a certain amount goes to fund promotions as well as educational activities and general improvements that are available to all...it's self funding in other words. Not all farmers are happy about it....

Wanna bet?

You can't tell me that any rep/senator from any farming state isn't trying to funnel as much funding to those groups as they can.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3077 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 7):
Frankly the $500,000K that the US goverment may or may not have ended up paying for this is but a small down payment for all of the wealth that the lower 48 has stolen from the people of this state.

So...what you're arguing is that it's OK to piss federal money away on stupid stuff because of something that allegedly happened sometime in the past to someone somewhere?


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29840 posts, RR: 58
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3043 times:

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 10):
So...what you're arguing is that it's OK to piss federal money away on stupid stuff because of something that allegedly happened sometime in the past to someone somewhere?

I am saying it is better to help build and maintain and industry then piss the federal money away on stupid stuff, like rebuilding a city below sea level.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3044 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 9):
Wanna bet?

You can't tell me that any rep/senator from any farming state isn't trying to funnel as much funding to those groups as they can

I live in central Iowa....we produce quite a lot of the stuff and I happen to know people who work for the National Pork Board and some hog farmers as well who pay the checkoff.

The programs are self funding.

That 40 cents per head doesn't sound like much until you start adding up how many hogs and steers are killed every week.

in 2000 the weekly hog slaughter was about 2 million...it's higher in barbecue season of course.

Here's some information about the checkoff programs.

http://www.porkboard.org/home/default.asp

http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/mpb/beef/beefchk.htm


User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3025 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 11):
I am saying it is better to help build and maintain and industry then piss the federal money away on stupid stuff, like rebuilding a city below sea level.

I suppose that rebuilding Valdez after 1964 was a waste of money because it's in an earthquake zone?


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29840 posts, RR: 58
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2999 times:

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 13):
suppose that rebuilding Valdez after 1964 was a waste of money because it's in an earthquake zone?

Actually the original townsite was abandoned and the town rebuilt itself about 5 miles down the road on bedrock.

So they actually learned their lesson, N.O. on the other hand will rebuilt itself on the same low ground.

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 12):
I live in central Iowa....we produce quite a lot of the stuff and I happen to know people who work for the National Pork Board and some hog farmers as well who pay the checkoff.

Don't doubt that, but don't claim that the Alaska Salmon programs aren't self-funded just because they got a one-time grant. There are fish taxes up here that are payed at the dock.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineDarthRandall From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 302 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2986 times:

Why would anyone ever buy salmon from anywhere other than Alaska? Seriously, Alaskan salmon pwnX0rs.

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 3):
Aeroman62...some of your tax dollars are going to an alligator farm in Louisiana. Are you saying that's a good cause for our tax dollars???

If we can eat the alligator meat, I'm for it. Alligator is good food.

In defense of the paint scheme, I have heard several folks talking about it. It's getting noticed, which is just what advertising is supposed to do. If you think about it, a television commercial wouldn't be any less to produce and air regularly. Now I don't know if it's convincing people to buy salmon. Personally, I think they should give out samples.



Ninjas can kill anyone they want! Ninjas cut off heads all the time and don't even think twice about it.
User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2943 times:

Who pays for these? The whaling industry?


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User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21588 posts, RR: 59
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2901 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 9):
You can't tell me that any rep/senator from any farming state isn't trying to funnel as much funding to those groups as they can.

Exactly. Until farming of all types has no subsidy, protection, etc., the dollars go in one hole, and come out other holes. That these advisory boards have been set up so as not to take money directly (though please show me the history of each to demonstrate they NEVER got a similar one time grant...), we tax payers are constantly paying for farming.

Which is fine, since we all eat. Just wondering how supporting fishing is different?

BTW - the happy cows is about cheese, and the cows are all in fields, and happy they aren't in snow covered fields. of course the cows in fields in CA are not milk cows but meat cows, as the milk cows are in confined pens hooked up to machines and are not happy at all, but the ads sure are "cute."



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4317 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2861 times:

What do you expect. Ted Stevens has been funnelling pork to his state of AS for years now.

User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29840 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2848 times:

Quoting Apodino (Reply 18):
What do you expect. Ted Stevens has been funnelling pork to his state of AS for years now

That's Uncle Ted to you.

But truth be told, when he dies, that will be the time to bail on the state.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2843 times:

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 16):
Who pays for these? The whaling industry?

SWA and Sea World...  Wink


User currently offlineLono From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1337 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2820 times:

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 12):
quite a lot of the stuff

Corn and pigs... woot!

Quoting L-188 (Reply 19):
But truth be told, when he dies, that will be the time to bail on the state.

Nah... only true Alaskans will stay..!!!



Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
User currently offlineSllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2798 times:

Once you start down the "aren't there better ways to spend money" path...it's a pretty slippery.

With everything going on, do we really need to take vacations and fly for fun when we could donate that money?

What about broadband internet access?

What about money going to support a.net?

You can't stop everything and focus on a single thing -- life is more complex than that.

Steve


User currently offlineZKEYE From New Zealand, joined May 2005, 243 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2740 times:

Quoting Sllevin (Reply 22):
You can't stop everything and focus on a single thing -- life is more complex than that.

Very well put.



Bring out the gimp
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2684 times:

Quoting Apodino (Reply 18):
What do you expect. Ted Stevens has been funnelling pork to his state of AS for years now.

Yeah, and Alaska is the only state with a Senator in Washington funding pet projects too, huh  sarcastic 

Quoting Lono (Reply 21):
only true Alaskans will stay

 checkmark  I'm not going anywhere . . . been there, didn't like the view, I'll stay right here thanks.

How much money does the Federal Government shovel to farmers to NOT grow crops? I know there's a BUNCH going to Iowa . . . former father-in-law just outside Maquoketa, Iowa quit growing corn entirely in the late 1980s, and throughout the 1990s, because the feds paid him to NOT grow anything.

So, that said, what's the damn difference between shoveling $$$ at a farm to keep it dormant and shoveling $$$ at AS to paint a fish on the side of the plane?

Just something else for someone to piss and moan about.

It's a cool paint job.

It's great advertising for AS and the Alaska Seafood Marketing Council and for REAL salmon - not that farm raised crap.

Get over it.


25 Post contains images Iwok : The State got some money for fish marketing. Its up to them how to spend it.. Beat me to the punch. Guess what there's a bunch of folks looking for u
26 LegendDC9 : The issue is not as much the money being spent, as it is spent on other similar programs nationwide. The difference is that it is given to one airlin
27 ANCFlyer : Because you won't see a NW DC-10F/742F or a CO anything landing in DUT or SIT or JNU or ANC or CDV or YAK picking up tons of salmon . . . It's not AS
28 LegendDC9 : That's exactly my point... Those are not the locations the advertising should be geared to. If anywhere it should go out to Japan and the East coast,
29 ANCFlyer : Look at the routing AS put that plane on . . . after it's initial run around Alaska to show it off I believe I read it will run the continental US .
30 Post contains links Dougloid : Well, there's quite a bit of the stuff....it's big business....soya.....beef cattle.....eggs....some dairy, sorghum, oats and barley....people gotta
31 Qxq400 : You have said all that needs to be said! Just shut up about the tax money that might be used for NO or a fish on a plan. WHO CARES,GET A LIFE.
32 Dougloid : A lot of difference. Was your father in law's land in CRP or WRP? Those programs are value given for value received. If you don't know the basis of w
33 Post contains links Bhill : More info... seems like pork to me...guess what the good senator's son is up to these days? http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm.../localnews/20025404
34 Kohflot : Pork? Let me know when you can say "government contract" without the word "Halliburton".
35 Post contains images Chugach : State of AS? Has my address suddenly changed to Anchorage, Alaska Airlines? I think you mean AK. Ding ding ding. We have a winning statement, folks!
36 Greasespot : Usually people in here are drooling because ABC airline has added a 1 in strip to their paint job......This is a cool paint job. Maybe the Gov't here
37 ANCFlyer : Doesn't matter . . . still federal $$$ shoveled at him so he wouldn't grow anything . . . what's the difference. None. Hate to break it to you Bhill
38 L-188 : Tried Turbot for the first time last year...damm watery fish. An A-3-Haibut would be a better add.
39 MDorBust : Hey, how about instead of a flying fish that will last for five years at a cost of .5mil, they got funding to do a 30 second commercail campaign, that
40 Dougloid : Wrong. All you're doing is betraying your ignorance and reaching conclusions based on supposition...shows you don't know anything about federal farm
41 Galapagapop : People need to get over it. Damage done, paint put down and dried. Nothing you can do about it unless people really are dumb enough to think removing
42 Sjot : People ... this aircraft was NOT paid for by US taxpayers. Every shipment of foreign-imported seafood is charged a levy when entering the US. A portio
43 ANCFlyer : I know enough to know I really don't give a shit about the Federal Farm Programs and also enough to know that people are way bent out of shape over a
44 Dougloid : Fine...we're having a discussion here, you make a comparison between a federal handout for a paint job and a federal handout to someone you used to k
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