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What's The Deal With GoJet Airlines?  
User currently offlineWestIndian425 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1014 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 18715 times:

Last night I was speaking with a friend of mine who got hired by Trans Sates Airlines. During conversation, she asked me if I ever heard of GoJet, and I said no. Immediately, she said warned me to stay away from there when applying for a pilot job, as that would be career suicide. I did a little searching on the forum posts and came up with only this:

Trans States is Going 1/2 Solo (by STLGph Sep 22 2005 in Civil Aviation)

So far, what I understand is the fact that GoJet pilots are not unionized, but I also noticed that the parent company is the same for Trans States. So I'm confused. Why is it that anyone who works or even applied to work for GoJet will be "black-balled" by the industry (at least that's what I've heard), and the same sentiment is not directed toward Trans States? Also, how can so much animosity exist between the two carriers that are owned by the same guy (and his children)? And finally, are there any other regional carriers that bear that same negative look as GoJet, and why?

I'd appreciate as much feedback as possible, since I should be getting ready to move on with my flying career in a few months.

Neil

[Edited 2005-10-05 16:17:45]


God did not create aircraft pilots to be on the ground
24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9239 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 18679 times:

There's a few people that posted in the thread I started that talked about Trans States and the pilot union contracts...etc. etc. My suggestion is, if they don't hit you up on this thread, shoot them an email from viewing their profile or send an instant message asking if you can talk to them for some more information.

From what I understand, Trans States is a really crappy operation on the way they treat their employees (very very low pay as compared to others) and I'm sure GoJets is just the same...if not worse.



Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
User currently offlineAfrikaskyes From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 18670 times:

What can be so bad about Gojets? Why career suicide?

A very good friend and a valued coworker of ours, picked up and left to start a new career as a flight attendant with Gojets. I am also a concerned about her new adventure in life and I can't think about how risky it was for her to leave her work worth with us and start a new career. I understand that sometimes you just have to say "what the *expletive*!" and do what you need to do. Risk is important and can sometimes make the difference in our lives.

My question....why do I get the impression like everybody else on this forum that what she and others are doing, really is career suicicde? Why do I have this bad feeling that others have? What could be so bad about Gojets?


User currently offlinePilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3139 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 18666 times:

GoJets is a separate airline set up by Trans States Holdings to fly 70 seat aircraft for UA. They did this to avoid a scope clause between TSA and AA. By starting a second airline on a different certificate they were able to circumvent agreements to fly nothing bigger than a 50 seat aircraft. As your friend said GoJets (blow jets as it's being called) is non-union. TSA is a union carrier acting within current scope clauses. As a result of this, the pilots who will fly for GoJets will likely be blacklisted, ala Air Midwest, a similiar venture that Mesa tried setting up some years ago. ALPA and APA publish a list of current and former Air Midwest pilots, and many who like to hold grudges will deny jumpseat rights, and forget about trying to get a job with one of these carriers later. Your friend is correct in suggesting you stay away.

To understand the negative feelings towards these carriers, I think you only have to look at the pay difference. Trans States FOs look forward to a great pay of about $19,000 their first year. Not pretty. They do the same things that the airlines do but becuase they pay their employees next to nothing they are profiting while the majors suffer. There is a lot of animosity from furloughed airline pilots because of this.

My personal feelings on this are pretty simple. Don't jump on the first jet you can just to say you fly a jet. It doesn't help me, and it doesn't help you. By whoring yourself out to a carrier for such little pay you're making it harder to advance further and therefore make more money. I know a number of pilots at regionals and they will work you as hard as legally allowed. Often, you have to pay very close attention to your 121 duty limits as they will put you on reduced rest as often as possible. Pilots only get paid based on when the aircraft is off the blocks. Any time spent at the gate means a meager perdiem or nothing at all. Its very possible to be making less than minimum wage when you have a 14 hour duty day and log 6 hours. I could live on 25 or 30 thousand a year, but not 18. I'm content to instruct for a little while longer or go haul checks at night in a baron because I'll likely make more money. I have college loans to pay.

I'm in the same boat that you are. Personally, I don't like that I could make more working at McDonnalds. The problem is that too many out there are willing to work for as little as possible just to say they fly a jet. Another great fourm to ask this question would be www.airlinepilotcentral.com There are lots of long time airline pilots there, as well as a number of people in your shoes. Good information on places like GoJets and other regionals and current issues affecting pilots.



DMI
User currently offlineCALPilot From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 998 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 18627 times:

Neal go to this forum, www.flightinfo.com and you will get a very good idea of what regional airline pilots are saying about this group.

Many are saying not to give jumpseats to these guys. Sorry I don't belive in that, if htey are on our company list they can ride. But that another story. Try the link.


User currently offlineWestIndian425 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1014 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 18590 times:

Thanks, guys for all the input and help. It'll be nice to meet up with you guys at some point. I hear networking is more valuable than gold.  Smile

Neil



God did not create aircraft pilots to be on the ground
User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2152 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 18528 times:
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Then, if the pilot "grapevine" is buzzing in the US, is GoJet having problems recruiting pilots or are there just too many out there happy to get a shot at a pilot job despite the low pay?

Are pax noticing anything, like pilots and FAs being more indifferent than usual or is staff morale still high? With 10 CR7s on order and 40 more on option, GoJet mgmt don't wanna piss flight crews off too much, do they, and mess up their own plans? Or...?



Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlineJAXFLL From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 93 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 18508 times:

Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 3):
GoJets is a separate airline set up by Trans States Holdings to fly 70 seat aircraft for UA. They did this to avoid a scope clause between TSA and AA. By starting a second airline on a different certificate they were able to circumvent agreements to fly nothing bigger than a 50 seat aircraft. As your friend said GoJets (blow jets as it's being called) is non-union. TSA is a union carrier acting within current scope clauses. As a result of this, the pilots who will fly for GoJets will likely be blacklisted, ala Air Midwest, a similiar venture that Mesa tried setting up some years ago. ALPA and APA publish a list of current and former Air Midwest pilots, and many who like to hold grudges will deny jumpseat rights, and forget about trying to get a job with one of these carriers later. Your friend is correct in suggesting you stay away.

This is part of the reason that unions give most of the general public a negative feeling....black listing people who want a job. Instead of adapting to the environment, they have protective clauses for their own jobs. I don't blame them for having them, if I could guarantee my job I would do everything I could too.

However, it seems to limit the ability of companies to be competitive and expand to what the management of the company thinks will be successful. With as many pilots that have been retiring and being furloughed, plus the constant demand of people that want to be pilots, I don't think that any airline that wants pilots are going to have a hard time finding them.


User currently offlineIADCRJ From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 332 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 18488 times:

Quoting JAXFLL (Reply 7):
TSA is a union carrier acting within current scope clauses. As a result of this, the pilots who will fly for GoJets will likely be blacklisted, ala Air Midwest, a similiar venture that Mesa tried setting up some years ago.

You are probably refering to the Mesa's "Old Freedom" not Air Midwest. Air Midwest always has been used for Mesa's Beech 1900 system and never had any jets on its certificate.


User currently offlineDrewwright From United States of America, joined May 2001, 621 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 18461 times:

Quoting JAXFLL (Reply 7):
This is part of the reason that unions give most of the general public a negative feeling....black listing people who want a job. Instead of adapting to the environment, they have protective clauses for their own jobs. I don't blame them for having them, if I could guarantee my job I would do everything I could too.

As long as there are pilots out there willing to buy a job (e.g. Gulfstream) we will need unions. Flying is a passion and some people will work for peanuts just to say they are an airline pilot...and airline management knows this, using it to their advantage. Not only is the union necessary to protect pilots from the opportunistic airline management team, it is necessary to protect us from overzealous pilot wannabes. GoJet was created to avoid the "inconvenience" of unions. So if you can live with substandard wages, being despised by other pilots, and having no work rules to protect you, then perhaps GoJets is a great place to be.


User currently offlinePilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3139 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 18458 times:

My sentiments exactly Drew. These scope clauses are meant to protect the major's jobs. With RJs getting bigger and the increase in range that the latest incarnations see it is very possible that airlines like Delta will soon have their entire domestic system served by regional carriers.

While these blacklists might leave a sour taste with some, they need to consider what taking such low paying jobs are doing to the industry. More flying is being done by the regionals, and with the scope clauses being circumvented by airlines like Go Jets they aren't just hurting the mainline guys, they're taking away jobs that they could one day have at the mainline and conversely their earnings in the long run.



DMI
User currently offlineJjbiv From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1226 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 18429 times:

Pilots-to-be should be required to take economics classes. I don't know where you guys come up with some of this stuff. If an individual is willing to work for the wage an employer is offering, let them work! If you're so much better than they are, you'll be able to earn a wage premium and they will have a job to boot. Scope clauses are only so effective. The fact of the matter is that there currently is an excess supply of pilots, thus depressing wages. Economic history does not smile upon those who engage in protectionist rent-seeking behavior.

Have you any idea how many pilots there are out there who would be thrilled to fly for GoJets? To think that if those who are currently working there were not that there would be no one working there is so naive as to be laughable.

Would you really rather see one of your "brother" pilots on the street than working for an airline? No one is doing anything "bad for the industry" by working!

In a round-about way I can understand why you guys think like this, but, please, stop for a second and realize that your logic is either non-existent or flawed; in either case, it certainly is not a sufficient basis from which to try and ruin someone's career.

joe


User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9239 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 18387 times:

Quoting Jjbiv (Reply 11):
Would you really rather see one of your "brother" pilots on the street than working for an airline? No one is doing anything "bad for the industry" by working!

In a round-about way I can understand why you guys think like this, but, please, stop for a second and realize that your logic is either non-existent or flawed; in either case, it certainly is not a sufficient basis from which to try and ruin someone's career.

And before you go posting threads such as this, you could be required to graduate first and get out there and job hunt for yourself.

Pilots/unions/associations are like a brotherhood watching out for the best common interest for all, and when that common interest is being shattered or negotiated, people in the industry take notice. As PilotPip pointed out in response #3, you need to avoid situations where you will find yourself black listed.

Yes it is nice to work in the profession you want to work in, but those before us have set a different pace that people have to follow. This is the same in many careers, even in broadcasting. I know if I went out and got a job at a Sinclair Station, I can kiss it goodbye for ever wanting to move on and go to work for 20 or so other companies out there. If I don't mind staying in one place until the end of time, then great, Sinclair it is. But if I want to move to a different market, I'll have to sell my soul to the devil before such a move would ever take place...if it ever took place. That's just the way it is.



Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 18362 times:

Quoting STLGph (Reply 12):
I know if I went out and got a job at a Sinclair Station, I can kiss it goodbye for ever wanting to move on and go to work for 20 or so other companies out there.

Forgive me for asking, but what is a Sinclair Station, and why is working at one looked down upon by the non-Sinclair bretheren?



Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineJjbiv From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1226 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 18313 times:

STLGph,

The non-response you posted says a lot about the quality, rationality and logic (or lack thereof) of the pilots' collective position -- a position which many (but not all) pilots ostensibly support. Your Ad Hominem was needless; as if relevant to the discussion at hand, I currently am in the throes of a professional job hunt and have hunted and held jobs of various sorts in the past, including some with members of this forum. Ivory tower living isn't for me, if that's your worry; however, I appreciate your concern.

Many pilots and their bargaining representatives, in general, must constitute a queer brotherhood, fore many pilots are screwing other pilots through their associations (i.e. unions) and many of these supposed professionals (all of whom do work I very much respect,) having been trained to be calm in the face of technical adversity, exercise caution and careful thought, and collect all relevant information before taking action have acted in anything but such a manner with respect to their "professional" activities. In case that statement isn't clear enough, let me try it again: aircraft would crash routinely if pilots flew the same way that many currently conduct their professional lives.

Again, I appreciate your description of the positive situation at hand (that is, the current realities of the world as it is perceived by many pilots Wink however, such description does not address the normative question of whether pilots are best served by "screwing" their own out of jobs, whatever the perceived quality of said employment. This issue should be of grave concern to all pilots.

I'm open to further debate as long as the same is conducted based on accepted principles of educated thought and not emotional pandering. Afterall, pilots are educated professionals capable of such thinking, no?

joe


User currently offlineJetCaptain From Canada, joined Dec 2000, 236 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 18279 times:

Interesting website here:

http://www.gojetpilots.com/index.htm


User currently offlineWestIndian425 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1014 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 18253 times:

Okay, here's another question:

Last I checked (and it was a while, so things could have changed) JetBlue doesn't have a union. Why then is the sentiment not directed towards those pilots? Is it becuase B6 pays them well and the requirements for hire are on par with other majors? Or is it becuase B6 doesn't use regional jets?

I like B6 very much, so this question is not to put them down at all. It was just a thought-provoking question.

Neil



God did not create aircraft pilots to be on the ground
User currently offlineCALPilot From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 998 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 18213 times:

Quoting WestIndian425 (Reply 16):
Last I checked (and it was a while, so things could have changed) JetBlue doesn't have a union. Why then is the sentiment not directed towards those pilots? Is it becuase B6 pays them well and the requirements for hire are on par with other majors?

Neil,

There is much animosity towards B6 pilots in the cockpits of legecy carriers. Their payrates for the 190 are terrible for 100 seat airliner, the Bus not much better. (Again flightinfo.com or airlinepilotpay.com) I belive the culture over there is great as in any new company. I applaud them for their success, and I appreciate their jumpseat (they are welcome on mine) That said, so was People express, so was NY Air, and many others startup airlines. Of course B6 is not these airlines, they are much better financed, much better revenues, better management. However, if you think that the natural course of employee/managment relations won't occur, I disagree. Eventually, either there pay and benifits will go up or, all others will come down to their level. Right now we are seeing them through competition force us down.

If you want to fly an airplane for 20 years and have no retirement, except what little you can make in a 401K, or IRA. Ok, more power to you. But I wish someone just one person in the forum that is not a pilot with a major would realize what pilots like myself is struggling with. Trying to discribe what it is like to hear people around the world say "Pilots make to much, they should be happy to have a job" To hear people say they "only work 80 hrs. per month." What should they expect? "Ugh!!!"

In the future, after B6 is done "cherry picking" routes, after the employee group gains seniority (wages go up) costs go up, after market forces swing around, then we will see how their longterm plans work. Maybe they will rule the USA, maybe they will be the biggest Airline in the Country. I don't know, bookmark some of these pages and we can say "I told you so" one way or the other someday.

B6 pilots had a right to get a job where they could, it was a new company and payed new company wages I can't begrudge that. Just trying to point out to those outside of this job, that this is no longer a career of respect, or even middle class living, when starting pay at most companies gets you food stamps to fly airliners.


User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4133 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 18216 times:

I am no fan of GoJets as they have taken some of the United flying from ZW. The anti GoJets website failed to mention that the reason GoJets was set up was because of the American scope clause, which they should be going after American on but thats a different issue. If it was just that, and they allowed current TSA pilots to train on Go Jets equipment and have one seniority list for both certificates that would have the same wages and benefits and union representation for all pilots, we wouldn't have an issue. The problem becomes is they are taking advantage of the fact that there is a scope clause to impose a bad work enviornment, and I think you will see this in a few months when the public becomes uneasy. Also, since United is using three new airlines to operate the ZW service (including Mesa and Skywest), instead of having 70 airplanes with one airline that can maneuver the equipment around for weather and mx issues, you have three airlines, Mesa who can likely do the same thing with new RJs, Skywest who with only 20 70 seaters likely to be spread at different hubs can't adjust as easily, and GoJets, who if they ended up with a split operation between IAD and ORD, forget about it. One of their planes break, and UA has a lot of cancelled flights and angry passengers, and has to spend more money to reaccomodate everyone. Will this save UA money? Lord only knows.

That having been said, I don't agree with the blacklisting either. Just because people don't honor a picket line doesn't mean they don't care about the future and long term. These techniques are nothing more than bullying, and I don't agree with it at all. You could be ruining the lives of many highly qualified pilots who are trying to make a decent living, just for not agreeing with your position.


User currently offlineLowrider From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 3220 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 18193 times:

[quote=CALPilot,reply=4]Many are saying not to give jumpseats to these guys. Sorry I don't belive in that, if htey are on our company list they can ride. quote]

Careful here, as GoJet does not yet have its operating certificate, it is not yet a certificated carrier. Therefore the pilots are not yet elegable for jumpseat privileges.



Proud OOTSK member
User currently offlineCALPilot From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 998 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 18174 times:

Yeah, they are not on the comapny list yet anyway.

User currently offlineWestIndian425 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1014 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 18123 times:

So I gather that although there is a certain level of dislike towards B6 pilots from the legacy carrier pilots, it nowhere as severe as what's being directed at the pilots of GoJet. Perhaps it is partly due to the fact that B6 was not launched to circumvent a scope clause (just speculating), but to be a successful low-cost carrier that is respected industry-wide for the service it provides, and to be loved by its employees.

Neil



God did not create aircraft pilots to be on the ground
User currently offlinePilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3139 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 18059 times:

My apologies to any Air Midwest employees I angered with my misinformation. I would change my earlier post but it's been a little too long the option isn't there any more.

Quoting Apodino (Reply 18):
am no fan of GoJets as they have taken some of the United flying from ZW.

Because of ZW's recent aquisition of intrest in US Airways UA announced that they will be terminating their "relationship" with them and Air Wisconsin is becomming a US Airways partner. Between this, and the airline formerly known as ACA United has a lot of regional routes to fill.

I'm not necessarily pro-union. I do have a lot of resentment for the pay that regional pilots are making. It's not enough. I also don't like the fact that pilots are willing to take such low pay just to fly for an airline. There's too much training, and too much responsiblity, they deserve more. However, as many have said there are more than enough pilots willing to work for this low pay (many do this after coughing up tens of thousands of dollars at an airline "academy" so they're basically buying a job).

Airlines are businesses, they exist to make money. Anything they can do to make more money is a good thing. This is where a good union comes in. The union is a way for a group to collectively work out issues they have, these may or may not include pay. ALPA in particular is what I consider a poor union becuase they don't look out for all of their employees. They give more consideration to their guys at the top end than those at the bottom. It seems that their pilots would rather have no jobs, than take a pay cut (negotiations are a two-way street) and the relations are almost standoffish with some airlines. Good faith and good relationships are something that they should work on because all parties involved could bennefit.

PS: Read the B6 fourms on Airlinepilotcentral.com. I'm not so sure that their pilots are a happy bunch now that they've been there for a little while.

[Edited 2005-10-09 14:26:34]


DMI
User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4133 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 18041 times:

Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 22):
Because of ZW's recent aquisition of intrest in US Airways UA announced that they will be terminating their "relationship" with them and Air Wisconsin is becomming a US Airways partner. Between this, and the airline formerly known as ACA United has a lot of regional routes to fill.

Actually, United put out the RFP before Air Wisconsin ever came to the agreement with USAirways. ZW still wanted to fly for United despite this agreement. However, if ZW had accepted the rates united was willing to pay, ZW would have become another Business Express real quick.


User currently offlineLoggat From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 666 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 18015 times:

Quoting Lowrider (Reply 19):
Careful here, as GoJet does not yet have its operating certificate, it is not yet a certificated carrier. Therefore the pilots are not yet elegable for jumpseat privileges.

Unfortunately, the opposite is true. They have been certified and have been revenue flying since the beginning of this month.

Quoting Apodino (Reply 18):
You could be ruining the lives of many highly qualified pilots who are trying to make a decent living

This might be true if GoJets had "highly qualified" pilots, or pilots that wanted to make a "decent living". This is the foundation of the whole problem though... the pilots at GoJets are not highly experienced and qualified, and with the compensation they are being given, a "decent living" is laughable.

You can pretty much read my opinion of the GoJet issue on the other thread linked in reply 1, however I'll give you a quick idea of why it is a sore issue with those who are actually involved in the battle.

Jjbiv, until you have actually had your job growth potential taken away from you by undercutters, I think you should hold off on accusing others of being uninformed. Both of your replies (11 and 14) are full of non-sensical crap and shows me that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Your logic that if there are pilots willing to fly the airplanes for less, to let them have at it is insulting to every airline pilot in the industry. Obviously there are scumbags and fresh-out-of-training pilots who are enticed to fly "big" airplanes and would do it for no wage at all. So is that the way the airline pilot profession should be? Ever heard of the race to the bottom? Under your logic, the airline industry should just pay all of it's pilots federal minimum wage and be done with it. You call us professionals, but you don't think we should be adequately compensated as such? Even to this day do we all go about our jobs professionally, and work on our futures in our own spare time.

It pisses me off to no end that people come on here and type away about why we are too greedy and that it makes economical sense to start GoJet with scumbag employees.

How would you like it if you spent years at your job doing the best, most professional job that you could for mediocre (at best) compensation and a constant battle with your own management who see you only as a commodity?
Then because of all the hard work you put in to do your job (we are constantly reminded with how "we couldn't do this without you" memos), you are able to turn a decent profit for your company, which in turn is able to negotiate more flying and significant growth. The company says "oh, we can use our second company to bargain against our first company and give the flying to the lowest bidder, thereby increasing our profits." So all your hard work gets thrown in your face and you have outside employees fresh out of school coming in and doing the jobs that you have earned for years with your company. Not only that, but they will do a job which should be paying more than you make, for less.

This is completely a different situation than the JetBlue problem. JetBlue, Southwest, Airtran... they all have the right idea... Treat your employees right and you will be rewarded. If the Trans States pilots were not unionized, management would have their airplanes flown around for minimum wage, and there are pilots out there who would do it. Do you think that is fair for the rest of us?

As a side note, GoJet receives 3 pilot resumes per month. Do you think the word is out on this operation?

Why do you think Mesa Airlines pilots work under such bad work rules and the lowest wages in the industry? It was the exact same problem. Their management started a second airline (Freedom) and used it to bargain against Mesa pilots so that they would agree to a terrible contract to keep flying and obtain more.

The only difference with the Trans States pilots is that we told our management that we've seen it all before, and they know where they can stick their insulting proposal. Every respectable airline pilot out there knows that we did the pilot industry a favor by not agreeing to fly the GoJet operation for substandard compensation.

I have been typing as thoughts have come into my head, so this will appear odd.... but I don't care.

Want to know any more specifics about the whole issue? Feel free to ask on this forum or email me... I'll tell you anything you need to know (within reason).

Pete



There are 3 types of people in this world, those that can count, and those that can't.
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