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New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015  
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 27694 times:

The current A380-800 being the first A380 model, will be the series backbone for years to come. Much of the A380s structural parts are dimensioned for growth. The current prototype will be used for some of the higher weight A380F certification tests.

Like most larger aircraft, new versions of the basic A380 will be developed to match changing market demand for the next 40 years. Airbus predicts a new A380 version every 2-3 years for the coming years.

Most likely versions (after the A380F):
- A380-800R: from 2010-11 extended range of 8.750 nm with 555 passengers.
- A380-900: from ~2014 with more then 650 passengers.

The 800R would be the A380s entrance into the ULR market. With typical ULR cabin comfort specs it would e.g cover North America from Australia & Asia with nearly double the seating capacity of current ULR aircraft types. Likely the specs will be adjusted as the market situation / customer demand changes.

Other versions specified during the development of the A380:
- A380-700 extended range shortened fuselage for 481 passengers
- A380-800C7 passenger/cargo model with space for 7 cargo pallets
- A380-800C11 passenger/cargo model with space for 11 cargo pallets
- A380-800S reduced range version of the A380-800
- A380-900S reduced range version of the A380-900

The -900S could offer lower seat mile costs on north Atlantic & intra Asia routes then anything else. Might get feasible if oil prices further rise.

People on this site say a combi is unlikely to be certified, however I have read nothing official on this. Authorities most of the times have rational demands, not being against something principally. Any links on this?

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/photos/big/00005598.jpg
Picture from : http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos Brian A MacDonald

sources:
http://www.aviationindustrygroup.com...s/a380flighttestinggat-947-953.pdf
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/jetliner/a380/

58 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 35
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 27454 times:

Sorry, Keesje, can't resist asking a couple of questions.  Smile

1. Strictly, shouldn't this thread be headed "New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 'late 2006'-2015"?

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
A380-700 extended range shortened fuselage for 481 passengers

2. How could that version possibly compete with the lighter 747ADV?



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineWiggidy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 113 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 27290 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 1):
2. How could that version possibly compete with the lighter 747ADV

Imagine you have a fleet of 20-30 A389/388's and want an aircraft with less seats for longer routes or routes with less demand. Thats a perfectly reasonable example as to how that aircraft will compete. It's not all about weight you know, much more economics involved than that.
-Wes


User currently offlineCruiser From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1001 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 27162 times:

That is the first picture of the A380 that I absolutely love. It looks great!

James



Leahy on Per Seat Costs: "Have you seen the B-2 fly-by at almost US$1bn a copy? It has only 2 seats!"
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 27080 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 1):
2. How could that version possibly compete with the lighter 747ADV?

Easily, by offering 9000nm range.

N


User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4704 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 26950 times:

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
- A380-800R: from 2010-11 extended range of 8.750 nm with 555 passengers.

I´d say more than 10.000 nm in order to be able to fly LHR-SYD.
Remember the current version has 8000 nm and the growth potential is enormous, a shortened A380-700 would be much less economical.

Also possible versions : -800RF, -900R, -900F, -900RF(!).



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13549 posts, RR: 100
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 26795 times:
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Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
uch of the A380s structural parts are dimensioned for growth. The current prototype will be used for some of the higher weight A380F certification tests.

So true. I've posted quite a few times that I think the A380 won't get sales "legs" until the A389 is available.

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
- A380-800R: from 2010-11 extended range of 8.750 nm with 555 passengers.
- A380-900: from ~2014 with more then 650 passengers.

Very attractive to current A388 and A345 customers.

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):

The -900S could offer lower seat mile costs on north Atlantic & intra Asia routes then anything else. Might get feasible if oil prices further rise.

Yes, but pulling out fuel tanks isn't too exciting. Also, short range versions have historically had poor resale value.

Quoting A342 (Reply 5):
a shortened A380-700 would be much less economical.

The new 747sp!  duck  The A387 will join the 771, 761, etc. as part of the list of notable shrinks that didn't happen. Customers will demand an A388 with more range and "abuse" it rather than purchase a new sub-type. (abuse=run with very few seats and many fuel pallets in the cargo hold).

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):

People on this site say a combi is unlikely to be certified, however I have read nothing official on this. Authorities most of the times have rational demands, not being against something principally. Any links on this?

The FAA has serious concerns on *single deck* combi's. Basically, they've stated that a *new* single deck combi isn't going to happen. Of course, that leaves the market *totally open* to the A380. I could see KLM filling the top deck with Pax and the lower deck and most of the hold with cargo!  bigthumbsup  Or... vice versa (but would you want to be the people filler in the cargo sandwich? Not me).

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 7002 posts, RR: 63
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 26789 times:

It looks like RR Trent 900s on the Ocean Air picture. Is it true that they've gone for RR and not GP?  Wink

User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9232 posts, RR: 76
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 26739 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 1):
1. Strictly, shouldn't this thread be headed "New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 'late 2006'-2015"?

Not sure about that, end of next year major assemblies of the first 40 aircraft, and 20 odd should be assembled. My understanding is certification has been delayed, they are happily putting them together whilst the test program is happening.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 1):
2. How could that version possibly compete with the lighter 747ADV?

Heard that the 747 cannot go heavier due to gear design limits, do you know what the upper weight they could extend the airframe to ?



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineEddieGunsmoke From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 26723 times:

Quoting Cruiser (Reply 3):
That is the first picture of the A380 that I absolutely love. It looks great!

Is it just me, or does the nose look much better on that one?


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6491 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 26643 times:

Quoting Cruiser (Reply 3):
That is the first picture of the A380 that I absolutely love. It looks great!



Quoting EddieGunsmoke (Reply 9):
Is it just me, or does the nose look much better on that one?

Yes, it does look better. I'm not sure if it's the paint job, or if someone took the A380 in that photo in for rhinoplasty. In fact, it looks almost as good as the MD-12 (in my opinion the best-looking double-decker design I've seen.)



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 26539 times:

Given what FedEX had to say this week, wouldn't the A389F be a high priority?

User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13549 posts, RR: 100
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 26162 times:
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Quoting Leelaw (Reply 11):
Given what FedEX had to say this week, wouldn't the A389F be a high priority?

Getting the A389 going is a priority. I agree with FedEx's comments that eventually most of the A388's (pax, 1st gen, not ULR) will become A388SF's. Unfortunately, FedEx alone wouldn't order enough A389's to justify the engineering today. I expect by 2008 Airbus will be in full swing on the A389 development.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineAirPacific747 From Denmark, joined May 2008, 2478 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 26103 times:

Quoting Cruiser (Reply 3):
That is the first picture of the A380 that I absolutely love. It looks great!

And then it isn't even a real photo  Yeah sure


User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10243 posts, RR: 97
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 25769 times:
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Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
Much of the A380s structural parts are dimensioned for growth



Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 6):
So true. I've posted quite a few times that I think the A380 won't get sales "legs" until the A389 is available.



Quoting Gigneil (Reply 4):
Easily, by offering 9000nm range.

I really think that the A380 versions that make full use of the frame's potential can offer customers much more than the current A388 - what do others think?
A


User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4704 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 25638 times:

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 14):
I really think that the A380 versions that make full use of the frame's potential can offer customers much more than the current A388 - what do others think?
A

Of course they can, and they´ll do.



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1911 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 25100 times:

I dunno...
While I could see a pretty big potential for the -800R, I still doubt that -900 will be launched. I don't think there will be a demand for a plane with more than 600 seats in the next 25 years... So, once again - We'll probably see at the most around 400 - 500 A380-800s (both "standard" and "R" variants) in it's entire product lifespan (25+ years).



Now get your f***ing Jumbo Jet off my airport!!! - AC/DC "Ain't No Fun To Be a Millionaire"
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 7002 posts, RR: 63
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 25048 times:

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 16):
While I could see a pretty big potential for the -800R, I still doubt that -900 will be launched.

You're joking? SIA would buy it tomorrow and so would others. FedEx have said within the past week that they want the -900F more than the 800F. Leahy said a few years ago that Airbus missed an opportunity by launching the A330-300 before the -200. I wonder if they should have had the balls to go straight to the A380-900?


User currently offlineMatt27 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 25026 times:

Quoting EddieGunsmoke (Reply 9):
Is it just me, or does the nose look much better on that one?

Yeah, it does look better.  Smile


User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 24700 times:

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 14):
I really think that the A380 versions that make full use of the frame's potential can offer customers much more than the current A388

IMO, only an aircraft the size of the A389 completely fulfills the business case advanced for the VLA. Two of the key customers, EK & FE, claim they really prefer the A389 over the A388.


User currently offlineBomber996 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 395 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 24481 times:

If they're gona have problems turning the A388, imagine the daunting task of taxiing an A389 in a crowded airport.  devil  I would love to see this happen though. I think the A389 would be much more aesthetically pleasing then the A388. The A388 just looks too small.

Peace  box 



AVIATION - A Vacation In Any Town, I Own Nothing
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 7002 posts, RR: 63
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 24406 times:

Quoting Bomber996 (Reply 20):
The A388 just looks too small.

Yeah, it's really tiny...  sarcastic 


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21583 posts, RR: 59
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 24282 times:

Quoting Matt27 (Reply 18):
Yeah, it does look better.

Because the nose is obscured by the paint scheme, the only way this plane looks good.

I am not looking forward to seeing the 388 in AF and QF scheme. Eek.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 7002 posts, RR: 63
Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 24264 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 22):
I am not looking forward to seeing the 388 in AF and QF scheme. Eek.

Well, I'm looking forward to seeing it - and flying on it - in any colour scheme!


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17180 posts, RR: 66
Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 24019 times:

Quoting Zeke (Reply 8):

Heard that the 747 cannot go heavier due to gear design limits, do you know what the upper weight they could extend the airframe to ?

There are rumors about adding a center gear strut.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
25 Post contains images Bomber996 : Ok.... too short, then, for the wings. Peace
26 PM : Fair enough. I haven't seen it in the flesh so it may look "wrong" but I don't dislike what I see in pics. But I agree, the -900 should be more aesth
27 Thorben : True for EK, they said they want a larger one. Who is FE?
28 PM : FedEx.
29 N328KF : Well, it really just looks like a supersized A318. It looks awful for the same reason the A318 does.
30 PM : And that is...?
31 N1120A : It remains to be seen whether the A388 will meet its projected range It can't, unless it can actually offer 9000nm range. Still, Boeing has projected
32 Post contains images Mariner : Hmmm? I think the A318 looks great - especially with Frontier's critters on those huge tails. Then again, a lot of people used to think Picasso's pai
33 Thorben : OK, thanks. Did they say they want something larger than the A388? I only heard that from EK. Airbus has always shortened and stretched their fuselag
34 PM : Read this week's FLIGHT INTERNATIONAL.
35 Post contains links Gigneil : http://www.flightinternational.com/A...380F+fleet+expansion+strategy.html That will get you up to speed on FedEx's stance. VS would also like the A389
36 Thorben : Maybe I'll try it. How much does it cost? The A310 (43.9m long) and the A340-600 (75.6m long) have the same fuselage diameter.
37 PM : Read it online. See Neil's link above. The A300, A310, A340, A330 all have the same fuselage diameter. But they arrived in the order above: 300, 310,
38 Post contains images Bomber996 : Dont they all have the same fuselage? Peace
39 Thorben : I know. What I'm saying is that Airbus stretches and shortenes fuselages with the same diameter a lot. Therefore we can expect them to do that with t
40 Trex8 : so why not a combi with A343 passenger capability on the upper deck and cargo on the lower deck??? I could see some far east carriers drooling over th
41 Post contains images Bomber996 : If you know that an A340-300 isn't double decker, then hopefully you'd know that much of the revinue generated by flights come from the cargo they li
42 Dazeflight : Just reread it. If you do it often enough you might come to the conclusion that he was talking about an A380 with a passenger main deck and a cargo m
43 N328KF : They both have that shortbus look and quality to them. The A380-900 will go a long way to rectifying this, just like the A319 looks a lot better than
44 Mariner : I don't think anything needs to be rectified. I think both the A318 and the A380 look excellent. Then again, i was around for the launch of the B747,
45 Astuteman : Unfortunately, the long forehead is essential in order to stop the airflow over the nose accelerating to supersonic in high speed flight (apparrently
46 FlySSC : I really don't believe in a "shrink" version of the A388. If an Airline needs a 480 seater why would it buy a double-decker A387 with all the problem
47 Trex8 : maybe I didn't express myself well, so I'll let someone who can, do it!! sorry but I'm the product of a public education system in a not so rich rura
48 Starlionblue : Interestingly, the 4 engine plane (current 340) was supposed to be called 330 and the 2 engine plane (current 330) was supposed to be called 340. Thi
49 Prebennorholm : Wrong. Well into next decade when a lot of (mainly European and Asian) airports have prepared for the 380 with dual airbridges at gates, then boardin
50 B2707SST : The A380 is already a very heavy aircraft for the amount of payload it carries, which somewhat offsets its advantage over the 747-400 in terms of aer
51 Dougloid : They still do....the only thing that's different is that some people have become convinced they should pay a lot for ugliness because they're too uni
52 Aerohottie : The cost per pax on an A380-900 must be awesome.... fill the plane with cheap seats cause the costs are lower and push your competitors off the route.
53 Aerohottie : I'm sure an A380-800R with a spacious layout (similar to SQ's A345) would have stellar range. Go on say it with me LHR/SYD non-stop!!!
54 Post contains images Slarty : Do you think the new A380 double-decker will do as well as their last double-decker?
55 Post contains images AirPacific747 : talking about "cow" looking airplanes
56 Zeke : I see the following maybe as options : A380 with GEnx engines as a direct competitor to the 747Adv A380 combie for people like Eva, two floors cargo,
57 Art : Did anyone spot that in the FI article David Sutton foresees "200 A380 freighters in the marketplace over the next 20 years." Is this plausible (inclu
58 A350 : Why so late? When the A380F is ready, the A380-800R shouldn't be that difficult anymore since the freighter already has a high MTOW. That means that
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