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Qantas To Announce Order For Mix Of Boeing, Airbus  
User currently offlineAeroPiggot From United States of America, joined May 2005, 284 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 16538 times:

An article in tomorrow's aviation daily, gives the following details on the Qantas order. I believe that Airbus gave Quantas a great deal on the A350 to offset the penalties on the late A380 order. Otherwise why order 787/A350, 777LR/A345. Why fly such a mixed fleet? I would like my fellow A-netters, to analyze the rational behind such a mixed fleet order. Please see excerpts from article below.


"Qantas is expected to announce an order for 60 to 100 aircraft next month as part of its fleet expansion and renewal program.

The new aircraft will replace 24 Boeing 767-300ERs with a mix of 787s and Airbus A350s for use on medium-haul international, trans-Tasman and domestic routes. The 787 goes into commercial service in 2008, and the A350 will make its first commercial flight in late 2010.

Qantas CEO Geoff Dixon said that in the light of escalating fuel prices it is advantageous for the airline to acquire new aircraft as soon as possible.

The older planes of Qantas's 24 747-400s will also be replaced with the ultra-long-range variants of the 777 and A340-500s to operate routes to the U.S. and Europe. This order will be carrier's first since November 2000, when it ordered 12 A380s, six 747-40ERs and 13 Airbus A330/-200/-300s.

The airline's aging fleets of 21 737-400s and 11 737-300s are also up for replacement. Qantas holds options on the 737-800 and the Airbus A320. The carrier currently operates 26 737-800s, while wholly owned subsidiary low-fare airline Jetstar operates 23 A320s. -WD"


A scientist discovers that which exists, an engineer creates that which never was.
109 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1884 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 16426 times:

Wow...
I'm guessing 787-3 for medium haul, A350-900 and 777-300ERs for long haul and 777-200LRs for SYD-LHR and SYD - USA routes... I doubt they will go for A340-500... Makes sense, since QF is pretty happy with their A330s as a long haul ships...

Edit: Now come to think of it... if QF goes for A350-900, watch for EK doing the same...

[Edited 2005-10-06 01:38:54]


STOP TERRORRUSSIA!!!
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21529 posts, RR: 59
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 16316 times:

Wow, I'm guessing this is another bogus one, as QF said recently they haven't even received all the proposals, so if they are going to decide before getting the data, why bother asking for it?  Wink


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4106 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 16298 times:

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard...I can see the A350, but the A345 makes no sense. Why the hell would any company order a plane when they are ordering the competitor which flies more people further at a lower cost? That's not A vs B, if you're ordering 777LRs, it's common sense!

User currently offlineAa777flyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 16296 times:

I think the 777 will look great in Quantas colours

User currently offlineBAxMAN From St. Helena, joined May 2004, 671 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 16287 times:

Quoting Aa777flyer (Reply 5):
Quantas

Hehehehe



I need to get laid
User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4106 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 16255 times:

Quoting AeroPiggot (Thread starter):
six 747-40ERs

What the hell is a 747-40?

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 3):
Wow, I'm guessing this is another bogus one

I think I have to agree...AeroPiggot, there IS no rationale behind that type of order. I don't care what kind of deal they got from either side, it makes no sense whatsoever to order such a mixed up fleet.


User currently offlineAerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2714 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 16240 times:

So they'll be buying just about every possible aircraft that's available.

I'd say this is nonsense.


User currently offlineHamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2744 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 16154 times:

Quoting AeroPiggot (Thread starter):
An article in tomorrow's aviation daily, gives the following details on the Qantas order.

This is not the details of the order, but details of what's being considered. Please read more carefully.

The RFP was for 1) 767 replacement - 787/A350; 2) probabe ULR - 772LR/A345

While there is a chance that both the 787 and the A350 will be ordered (at this stage, the 787 would go to mainline, the A350 would go to AO or JetStar "International"), QF will not order both the 777-200LR and the A340-500. From all indications, the A340 is out of the running at QF.

Regards,

Hamlet69



Honor the warriors, not the war.
User currently offlineSthPacific787 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 16129 times:

Quoting AeroPiggot (Thread starter):
The new aircraft will replace 24 Boeing 767-300ERs with a mix of 787s and Airbus A350s



Quoting AeroPiggot (Thread starter):
24 747-400s will also be replaced with the ultra-long-range variants of the 777 and A340-500s

I can't help thinking the article should have read " Boeing 787s or Airbus A350s" and "Boeing 777 or Airbus A340-500s"


User currently offlineSunriseValley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4986 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 16082 times:

Most of this is a direct quote from the press release of Aug.18 announcing the
RPF.


User currently offlinePlaneDane From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 16071 times:

Quoting N754PR (Reply 1):
Hey, another post from an American asking why anyone would ever buy Airbus... I'm shocked....

Ah yes, and we can be shocked by your post too.

That American you are referring to, simply wondered why any airline would split an order between brands to serve the exact same market.

It's a valid concern for economic and logistical reasons. A mix of 787s and Airbus A350s for use on medium-haul international doesn't make sense. It would have been smarter to go with either Airbus or Boeing, but not both.

Are you even capable of understanding that?


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7532 posts, RR: 17
Reply 12, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 15943 times:

Surely this can only be another example of 'Do not believe anything that you read in the press.' I think we should all wait for a Qantas and/or Boeing and/or Airbus press release!

User currently offlineAeroPiggot From United States of America, joined May 2005, 284 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 15943 times:

Quote:
Hamlet69: This is not the details of the order, but details of what's being considered. Please read more carefully.

Hamlet, the article did say a mix of 787 and A350, which I understood to mean both, I now believe that the article could have been written poorly. But I do thrust Aviation Daily to be a very reputable publication.

Quote:
SthPacific787: I can't help thinking the article should have read " Boeing 787s or Airbus A350s" and "Boeing 777 or Airbus A340-500s"

I totally agree! That makes a lot more sense to me.

Quote:
PlaneDane: That American you are referring to, simply wondered why any airline would split an order between brands to serve the exact same market.

Thank you PlaneDane, I wish I had been more explicit.  Smile



A scientist discovers that which exists, an engineer creates that which never was.
User currently offlineDCrawley From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 371 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 15876 times:

Quoting N754PR (Reply 1):
Hey, another post from an American asking why anyone would ever buy Airbus... I'm shocked....

Wow.. Right when I think I've heard it all, you had to go and say this. Guess what? I'm an American and I don't care what kind of aircraft they buy personally. Also, the person you are questioning is NOT referring to "Why are they buying Airbus?".. The person explains it very well and I think your comment was out of line in all aspects. Read to comprehend, not just go over words..

Quoting PlaneDane (Reply 13):
That American you are referring to, simply wondered why any airline would split an order between brands to serve the exact same market.

It's a valid concern for economic and logistical reasons. A mix of 787s and Airbus A350s for use on medium-haul international doesn't make sense. It would have been smarter to go with either Airbus or Boeing, but not both.

Well put..

-d



"Weather at our destination is 50 degrees with some broken clouds, but they'll try to have them fixed before we arrive."
User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3642 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 15863 times:

Sounds like BS to me.

The only reason I could think of buying the 787 and the 350 is Qantas might be trying to diversify its risk in either plane.



PHX based
User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9101 posts, RR: 75
Reply 16, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 15798 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 3):
Wow, I'm guessing this is another bogus one, as QF said recently they haven't even received all the proposals, so if they are going to decide before getting the data, why bother asking for it?

RFP responses received last week.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3066 posts, RR: 19
Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 15449 times:

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 19):
Maybe people are wondering why they would split their order so much?

I don't see why they should be wondering anything considering no order has been made and QF hasn't even completed their evaluation process. This is a ridiculous thread arguing about speculation in a magazine.

If your interested in where QF is at with their evaluation process then this link should help.

http://finance.news.com.au/story/0,10166,16832623-31037,00.html

As you'll see from it they are still TALKING not ordering.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21529 posts, RR: 59
Reply 18, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 14842 times:

Quoting Zeke (Reply 18):
RFP responses received last week.

Right. So if they can decide this fast, again, why bother asking for it? If they were just going to buy both from both without spending any time considering, just do it…

in other words, the article is poorly written.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineNASOCEANA From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 291 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 14696 times:

Why on earth would Qantas pay twice the cost to train crews to fly the same routes with two different planes!

Pick either one, and train crews one time!

Again makes no sense to have a mixed fleet which fly identical routes!

But I've seen crazier things happen before!



B777 greatest Airliner ever built!
User currently offlineToptravel From Italy, joined Oct 2005, 144 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 14296 times:

Qantas's fleet is pretty much a mixed up bag at the moment and has been since they took over Trans Australian, 717/737/767/743/744/744ER/A330/A320and soon A380. If I were Mr Dixon I'd be working on getting rid of the clunkers and standardizing my fleet a little.

User currently offlinePilotdude09 From Australia, joined May 2005, 1777 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 14162 times:

This is stupid why would qantas have such a broad range of a/c, this means engineers need to be trained crews need to be trained and all this is $$$$ that an airline needs.


Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Reply 22, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 14035 times:

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 10):

While there is a chance that both the 787 and the A350 will be ordered (at this stage, the 787 would go to mainline, the A350 would go to AO or JetStar "International"), QF will not order both the 777-200LR and the A340-500. From all indications, the A340 is out of the running at QF.

Hi Hamlet69, may I ask how you came to this conclusion? In your opinion why should we not expect the A350 in Qantas colours? Does it have anything to do you considering the A350 a second class product?

Quoting Toptravel (Reply 30):
Qantas's fleet is pretty much a mixed up bag at the moment and has been since they took over Trans Australian, 717/737/767/743/744/744ER/A330/A320and soon A380. If I were Mr Dixon I'd be working on getting rid of the clunkers and standardizing my fleet a little.

Well this seems to be working for Qantas. Just take a look at their profits.

Regards,
Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 13983 times:

I think they'll replace the 763s with A332s, the 747s with A346HGWs and the 737s with A32x, makes a lot of sense if you have A333s and A388s. For further expansion, I see the A350 coming.

User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Reply 24, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 13938 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 33):
I think they'll replace the 763s with A332s, the 747s with A346HGWs and the 737s with A32x, makes a lot of sense if you have A333s and A388s. For further expansion, I see the A350 coming.

Wow Thorben, what a nice list. But do expect to see B777 order from Qantas. I too would expect a follow on order for the A330 as a stop gap measure until they start to receive their B787/A350.

As for the A320 family replacing their current B737 fleet, stranger things have happend.

Regards,
Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
25 Post contains images Keesje : I think a combi 788+A359 could work great, just like the A332+772ER proved a winning team for many airlines. In that case we better pull the plug on a
26 NZAA : Well said!!
27 ClassicLover : I feel like I've stepped into the twilight zone. a) The A320s that "Qantas" apparently operate, are the aircraft of a wholly owned and seperately oper
28 Zvezda : This article smells like deliberately leaked false information designed to negotiate prices down.
29 Geo772 : While I can understand operating the 787 and A350 side by side based solely on the fact that they are not quite in the same size category I find the i
30 Glareskin : ETOPS issues??
31 Post contains links Keesje : BOEING TARGETS QANTAS WITH MORE FUEL EFFICIENT SALES PITCH http://au.biz.yahoo.com/051006/17/an79.html "One of the things we want them to think about
32 FriendlySkies : What the hell does that mean?
33 NYC777 : the fact that Boeing has been cleaning Airbus' clocks this year in orders certainly menas that they are taking their customers very seriously. Given
34 Amy : Where did you get that from? Stop trying to turn every thread that mentions the names Boeing and Airbus into some kind of war. It's SO DULL. The poin
35 ClassicLover : I wouldn't think so. Trent.
36 Keesje : - Because a combination of different aircraft types could make the best mix to fit network requirements? - Take the best of both worlds? - Keep playi
37 Luisca : Yes, you can order for example 787 and A345, or A350 and 777, or 787 and 777 or, A350 and A345. BUT NOT 787 and A350 and 777 and A345, that is what d
38 JAM747 : There are other airlimes that have a very diverse fleet of both Boeing and Airbus such as Air France and Tai Airways. There is probably some reason fo
39 Post contains images USAF336TFS : Are you reading my mind?!   Get a better deal, perhaps? [Edited 2005-10-06 15:58:09]
40 N328KF : Simple: They are not EK.
41 AKelley728 : Qantas' profits have more to do with having little or no competition in the Australian market, then operating a diverse fleet of aircraft.
42 ClassicLover : 1. This is correct and is why any airline has different aircraft types in their system 2. No, that's just silly. You don't buy the "best" product fro
43 ClassicLover : Sorry for the immediate next post - but this is wrong, wrong wrong wrong. DJ (Virgin Blue) compete with Qantas domestically and presently have 30-40%
44 Post contains images Manni : Meanwhile there are 10 orders for the A350 wich are unanounced. Perhaps QF did order the A350.
45 Keesje : To general IMO. The 787-3 & A359 have little overlap, same as e.g. a 200 seat A345 & a 350 seat B773ER. We are talking a possible combination of vari
46 Ikramerica : That I doubt. There are plenty of airlines around the world who could take 10 A350s.
47 Post contains images Manni : "There are plenty of airlines around the world who could take 10 A350s." Absolutely truth Ikramerica. Good, you finally see the light. And indeed, 10
48 Slarty : Maybe Boeing can't deliver enough 777s in time? Sometimes you need to go with second best.
49 NAV20 : Firstly, Qantas is technically privatised but still has to liaise very closely with government. If they were influenced not to place all their orders
50 N328KF : The point of which is "best" and "second best" can be argued, but this is the reason behind many A320 series orders.
51 WINGS : You got to be jocking? Regards, Wings
52 N328KF : Not really. I should have explained myself better. There were many operators that were leaning towards the 737, but could not because Boeing did not
53 NYC777 : Maybe QFA001 can give us some direction as to the above mentioned proposed purchase is the one that QF has in mind. To me it doesn't make sense to hav
54 Post contains images BOS2LAF : Maybe this is the US order that they bought. and I found it interesting that no one else picked up on this in that yahoo finance article that was lin
55 WINGS : As for Easyjet they got one hell of a price tag on those birds. Airbus at the time was trying to get into the LCC segment. Easyjet along with AirBerl
56 Keesje : I'm not saying Boeing has been buying market share recently. But the AI (no need for competition), AC (Miltons best deal ever, US Gov im/export bank)
57 LACA773 : QF seems to be a smart well run airline, and what has been said here, it doesn't make sense for the to be ordering all these similar aircraft from dif
58 Slarty : You should also consider the approximate 15% depreciation in the US $ over the Euro in the last couple of years ...
59 Post contains images ClassicLover : I'd laugh my arse off if they decided to not order at this time Trent.
60 NYC777 : Does anyone know when they'll make a decision and an announcement? I keep hearing the middle of this month but any insiders out there who can give us
61 Post contains images GARPD : Unlike Airbus paying for US Air to order the A350?
62 Hamlet69 : Not at all! IMO, the A330 is the best product Airbus produces, and by producing a more efficient derivative of it, the A350 should be a very well-des
63 Post contains images Keesje : I edited my post into "i'm not saying" as originally intended but you got the draft.
64 WINGS : I dont see USairways complaining. I totally agree with you on that one. Thanks for the explanation Hamlet. Until this order is signed anything can ha
65 Hamlet69 : For good reason. QR was one of the airlines that had paid Boeing 'refundable deposits' for 10 delivery positions on the 787, starting in 2008. From w
66 Glom : Good question. I was thinking that when Thorben suggested that QF had a strategy to get rid of all their Boeings and replace them with 'buses.
67 SthPacific787 : I've just logged on to a what seems like a "European Landslide" of pro Airbus support on this thread. It's quite overwhelming. While down here we don
68 Aa777jr : All this is hearsay until we all read the offical press release on their order... Regards.
69 United Airline : The article didn't mention anything regarding a B 747 replacement. Guess the B 747-300/400 will stay for sometime to come..... Not sure about the B 74
70 IB787 : If QF wants to fly to SouthAmerica, they would probably buy the A345 because B772LR can't make it and I don't see them flying with B744 or A380.
71 Lufthansa : QF has some union issues and there has been talk of expanding the jetstar brand to include some kind of long haul travel. From a marketing perspectiv
72 Zeke : Think QF have 60 A320s orders and options, enough to replace the whole 737 fleet in Australia and NZ. Think QF will always do the citiflyer routes, s
73 DLKAPA : And after months of A vs. B speculation and heresay from both sides, we've announced our decision. Drumroll please................We are happy to say
74 Zeke : Any confirm, first I had heard of that ?
75 KL808 : Here's my opinion on this order. They are going to order: 787-3 to replace the B767 A350 instead of B777-200ER A340-600HGW to replace some B747-300's
76 777STL : What about giving QF proper the 787s and maybe Australian Airlines gets the A350? I still think this rumor is BS, but I'm just throwing that out there
77 Post contains images Ikramerica : Well, considering they made a specific bid solicitation for ULR offers and NOT for 747 replacements, that is a bold statement...
78 GARPD : I have news for you. If the 772LR can't make it, neither can the A345 as if you hadn't realised till now, the 772LR will have more range than its com
79 Mariner : Um - it may have something to do with ETOPS, and not just the range of the plane. To my knowledge, no airline flies a twin between Australia/New Zeal
80 GARPD : Then perhaps the original poster should be a little clearer. To my mind he was attempting to show the A345 could fly further.
81 Thorben : OK. I never meant that they would replace their 738s with A32x, that wouldn't make too much sense. I only thought about the 734s. Buying from only on
82 Post contains links and images Keesje : Without going back to previous discussion.. It seems like the A359 will have a clear operational cost advantage over the 772 with about the same capab
83 ClassicLover : It's not really an issue though, because QF don't fly there in their own right. They code share with LAN. Trent.
84 Atmx2000 : Well that is his version of history. The 767 didn't operate in that market, at least not until very late in its life when the 764 came out. But by th
85 Jacobin777 : if (a big if here) certification can be for ETOPS 330, then there wouldn't be an ETOPS problem.........but thats well into the future
86 Mariner : The point is moot because there is an ETOPS issue now and for the foreseeable future, and it is unlikely - I think - that Qantas will order any varia
87 Antares : Jacobin777, Not even ETOPS 330 works especially well for Antarctica. You could make a case that it greatly helps on the current routes from Santiago a
88 Zeke : My understanding is that QF will not flight plan further south than 65S latitude for schedule flights. They do to occasional 747 charter flights that
89 Ikramerica : Nobody wisely flies over antarctica as there is no place to land in an emergency, ETOPS or no. The 772LR can do South America from Australia with ETO
90 Post contains images Jacobin777 : it was only a "technical" response...it doesn't really make a difference for practical purposes! couldn't agree more....but it really shouldn't make
91 Zeke : Anyone hear of another annoucement due soon to expand on Geoff Dixons comments last week in New York ?
92 Aither : Maybe it's just that the A350 better fit some routes...
93 ClassicLover : No? I know his comments last week were about Jetstar expanding internationally as a two class leisure carrier... Is the rumour that they'll fold Aust
94 Post contains images JetMaster : Good joke. Prove it. US Air once ordered A350? They must have had a vision... Regards, JM
95 Mariner : Um - I am aware of that argument. This is fine, I have flown both Lan Chile and Aerolineas Argentinas and the experience was excellent. I would prefe
96 Jacobin777 : technically, you would be able to fly "1/2" the route withNZ or QF via LAX... yes, I do have some air carriers which I prefer to travel on.......howe
97 Post contains images Mariner : Which is what I do now, and will always do, what I have always done. My "natural head turn" from here is to California, not to New York. So while the
98 Zvezda : I don't trust either Airbus' or Boeing's claims regarding seating. Could someone please post the cabin floor areas of the B787-9, A350-900, and B777-
99 Post contains images Jacobin777 : I think it will be interesting to fly on a -200LR, as I certainly plan on flying on PK's IAH-ISB-KHI route sometime next year unless Frontier decide
100 777ER : Didn't Easy jet go airbus because of a cheaper deal?
101 Numbertwelve : lol, shame on you! Anyway, I saw a receipt from Fraport check in for rebooking of a customer and the receipt showed "Quantas" again. I couldn't resis
102 NAV20 : The old joke here used to be, "QANTAS stands for 'Queensland And Northern Territory Aerial Service', and TAA stands for 'Try Another Airline.'
103 Ikramerica : What about those of us who have been to your neck of the woods, and who pointed out, but you MISSED, that the 772LR CAN fly to South America without
104 Mariner : I didn't MISS it at all. I read your post #89. It seemed to be at variance with what everyone else was saying, but hey, I rely on others for technica
105 Antares : Don't cry for Argentina, or Chile. If the route grows I'm sure Qantas will do it with the youngest of its 744s, which would be the -ERs, around about
106 Post contains images Mariner : My time frame is not so long as yours. One day, eventually, Frontier might also fly the Atlantic. The question is - will I still be around to enjoy i
107 Antares : Mariner, Well, so long in the tooth I remember when 707s started (fitfully) on the route. Qantas flew a 707-338 non-stop from Sydney to Chile on a dem
108 Mariner : Antares: Interesting stuff - I suppose the South American flights are filed in the back of my mind somewhere, but lurk in the shadow of the Fiesta rou
109 Post contains images LifelinerOne : Yep! easyJet drove the salesguys from Airbus and Boeing nuts by playing them out on each other. In the end the deal went to Airbus because of the low
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