Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
RG With 31 Acft Grounded  
User currently offlineTP727 From Brazil, joined May 2005, 136 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 10 months ago) and read 5769 times:

I was navigating on www.terra.com.br and saw that RG is in a even deeper trouble now.
The article said that their maintence director was complaining about the money that the airline new management team was putting on the planes maintence was not even close to the necessary amount. He said that if things don´t go on a different way, by year end there will be 31 acft with no conditions to fly.
That is very sad to read! RG has been known for it´s excellently and high standards, and in the past few years those levels have came down big time. I would have a few personal reasons to wish a very short future for RG, but that is not the case. I do hope they get out of this awful situation, get back on their feet, and go up again.
One thing is for sure, plane and poor maintence do not belong together. There are some examples showing that saving costs on maintence can work for the best, but there also are many others showing that it can really hurt an airline.
I do not question RG´s crew abilities, never did except for once a few years ago (very specific case, can´t remember the captain´s name now, but he just did everything wrong). They have proved to be good in many situations, and RG is known as an excellent trainer airline, but the best of all pilots cannot work with poor maintence.
Hope to hear any official statement from RG´s management soon, this is a very sad issue and has to be faced properly.
If any of you guys can clear my informations, and ad a few others i will be more than thankful.
TP727

57 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTP727 From Brazil, joined May 2005, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months ago) and read 5728 times:

There goes the link to the article i read. I am sorry but it´s for portuguese readers only. I know i should have put the link on the initial post, but please forgive an old man´s mind and lack of computer ability. Hope it works!

http://br.invertia.com/noticias/noti...dNoticia=200510061251_GZM_28787610

TP727


User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8942 posts, RR: 40
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months ago) and read 5710 times:

Whoa! COULD, not IS. Title is a bit misleading.

I did read something about RG management response, I'll try to find, but it went on saying that that was the reason they want to sell VarigLog.

Varig could be in much worse situation if absolutly nothing happens by then. They need to act quicker on those proposals that have been offered.

Cheers

[Edited 2005-10-07 02:01:55]


"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11420 posts, RR: 58
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5659 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Very bad.
I read the article on all business newspapers today but as PPVRA said, they keep 15 aircraft grounded, not 31.

Aircrafts on Ground:
10 Boeing 737-300 or 500
02 MD-11
01 Boeing 767-300ER
01 Boeing 777-200
01 Boeing 777-200ER

Two of them, 01 MD11 and 01 Boeing 777-200 will be back to service soon.

The problem in the article is that RG is using only 10% of the money they need to use to keep all aircrafts ready to fly, and due to this, RG could face a major shutdown on their fleet.

The second GRU-MIA as well as the 3 additional GRU-JFK is in danger as up to this moment RG keep MAD and MIA runing with a single widebody. Several routes, like MEX, LIS, MAD and BOG are using 767's (inclusive from EuroAtlantic/Varig Charter).

Some facts like a GRU-MAO-BOG with a 737-300, a non-ER 777 runing FRA-GRU with technical stop at REC, downgrading again GRU-EZE (to use the 752 on GIG-GRU-CCS), the drop of NRT....

Wish to see the entire fleet flying, but RG need funds to do this. (At least US$ 70 million).

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineVincewy From Taiwan, joined Oct 2005, 767 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5475 times:

Even 15 grounded is bad news for the carrier, how can a carrier, representing a nation that has so much potential, getting to this point? In the 80s RG is THE ONLY RESPECTABLE AIRLINE in Latin America that can compare with major Asian and European airlines, it was also THE FIRST AIRLINES in Latin America that brought in 744.

User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5361 times:

Quoting Vincewy (Reply 4):
how can a carrier, representing a nation that has so much potential, getting to this point?

Ask the same question for US carriers, and the list is huge..

TAM is the biggest airline in Brazil nowadays.

Rgs,


User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5221 times:

WOW. I knew it was bad, but not that bad. I came accross this article 3 days ago.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...fer=latin_america&sid=aYJh5MNnzieM

I hope things workout for Varig. A lot of tradition there.

saludos desde cancun....


User currently offlineCB777 From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 1216 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5125 times:

Maybe Continental will the get the 777-200ERS if matters get a lot worse

User currently offlineKomododx From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5080 times:

Quoting Vincewy (Reply 4):
Even 15 grounded is bad news for the carrier, how can a carrier, representing a nation that has so much potential, getting to this point? In the 80s RG is THE ONLY RESPECTABLE AIRLINE in Latin America that can compare with major Asian and European airlines, it was also THE FIRST AIRLINES in Latin America that brought in 744.

Avianca in the 1980s had a very strong European network. They were also the first airline to introduce 747 Jumbo Jets in South America.

Stefano  wave 


User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8942 posts, RR: 40
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5037 times:

Quoting Vincewy (Reply 4):
Even 15 grounded is bad news for the carrier, how can a carrier, representing a nation that has so much potential, getting to this point?

I think that number includes a/c that are on normal maintenance schedule, albeit most likely a bit delayed also...

Blame it on an over-regulated market pre-1990's, horrible management, and a devaluation of the local currency by over 50% (doubled RGs debt in no time).

It is especially alarming to me that RG never owned any of their aircraft, making them extremely susceptible to monetary fluctuations...

Good luck RG!

Cheers



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineTP727 From Brazil, joined May 2005, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4960 times:

About the 31 acft grounded, the article clearly says that by year end that will be the number of planes not flying, if money keeps going as it it today.
I guess the title i choose did cause a worse impression, but RG´s situation is very very bad.
If money doesn´t start to show up on the maintence department - or VEM - i do not think RG will be around by mid next year. They will have to drop other routes, and big airlines in good financial situation, such as AF, JJ, LH, or even the broken american airlines, UA and AA will take a big portion of the international market.
In other hand, 10% of the money needed can not make a good work. If any RG acft goes down for tech reasons, and that causes deaths, i really doubt they would be able to stand up again.
TP727


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4892 times:

Quoting TP727 (Reply 10):
RG´s situation is very very bad.

Correct. I dont think we will see RG flying in 2006...

TAM already stated it can take over all international routes.

Rgs,


User currently offlineNetworkDoc From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 77 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4846 times:

How much longer will Star tolerate RG in the alliance? Mexicana had to leave, but will Star give up RG in the same way (providing RG stays in business)? Would Star try to lure TAM instead given the circumstances?


Flown: AB/BA/BD/BI/CX/DI/DL/KE/KL/LH/LT/LX/MH/NW/OZ/PR/QF/SN/SQ/TW/UA/VS/5J.
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4807 times:

Quoting NetworkDoc (Reply 12):
How much longer will Star tolerate RG in the alliance? Mexicana had to leave, but will Star give up RG in the same way (providing RG stays in business)? Would Star try to lure TAM instead given the circumstances?

Star needs RG - RG still is the biggest airline in Latin America and has a huge hub in GRU, where Star airlines operate their service in Brazil.

TAM will never join Star...even Sky and OW can manage to attract TAM.

Rgs,


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11420 posts, RR: 58
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4779 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 13):
Star needs RG - RG still is the biggest airline in Latin America and has a huge hub in GRU, where Star airlines operate their service in Brazil.

TAM will never join Star...even Sky and OW can manage to attract TAM.

100% True. Also RG is using some UA planes and receiving some LH support as a consulting but RG situation is really bad. Without the deal concerning to VELOG (Varig Cargo), they have no money for example to fix one PP-VRA engine (one of the two 777ER's received directly from Boeing in 2001). This plane could generates US$ 15 million in revenue (at FRA routes) per month, but RG could not afford the new engine costs. Some weeks ago, a Varig director said that the option to come into Court Protection (chapter 11) was higher than return the 11 planes (including 2 772) to ILFC as several credit lines has been frozen by banks and suppliers.

I can't see TAM joining Star due to its partnership with AA.

Regards,
Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4680 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4663 times:

And once again GRU-MUC could go down the road...  Confused


Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineNeo From Brazil, joined Jan 2001, 671 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4480 times:

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 11):
TAM already stated it can take over all international routes.

Hum, I think I'll believe that when I see it from my own eyes. JJ has always been very too cautious and perhaps slow when it comes to expanding internationally.

If RG does cease its operations (let's hope not), I doubt JJ would take over their intl. routes in the short-medium term. In order to do that JJ would need to quickly buy/lease lots of aircrats to be able to flight all current RG intl. routes.

Rgs,

Neo


User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3762 times:

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19890903-0

I believe this is the accident that TP727 is referring to.

I hope for the best for VARIG - it would be such a shame to see such a great airline with a rich history go the way of Pan Am...



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineThaiboynMexico From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3700 times:

Could anyone tell me how much of RG is owned by the Brazilian government? Is it completely private? I'm sure the government still holds at least a golden share, which would allow intervention if the worst occurs...but let's hope not.

Thanks


User currently offlineThaiboynMexico From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3680 times:

And even now, is the government doing something about it at all? Or are they just letting free market determine the fate of Varig?

[Edited 2005-10-07 23:20:40]

User currently offlineXA744 From Mexico, joined Mar 2004, 734 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3592 times:

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 17):
hope for the best for VARIG - it would be such a shame to see such a great airline with a rich history go the way of Pan Am...

Can some of our Brazilian friends explain in just very few words, the basic points of mismanagement at Varig that have taken the carrier to its current critical situation ?

I still remember those proud Convair 990A´s that VARIG began flying to MEX, when the two countries established an air bilateral back in 1963.

Thank you Varig !



No matter how you fly...just never get your wings clipped !
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11420 posts, RR: 58
Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3557 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Neo (Reply 16):
Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 11):
TAM already stated it can take over all international routes.

Just a new inside... TAM has just begin it's brand marketing at London. Some cabs are showing their First Class seats. We could see a London JJ flight to Gatwick next year with the A332 TAM will receive back from Etihad.

LHR is probably one of the best RG routes nowadays (after FRA and JFK).

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineAntiuser From Italy, joined May 2004, 657 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3476 times:

Quoting ThaiboynMexico (Reply 18):
Could anyone tell me how much of RG is owned by the Brazilian government?

I think RG has been a private airline since they started in the late 1920s. Now it's owned mostly by the Ruben Berta Foundation.



Azzurri Campioni del Mondo!
User currently offlineTP727 From Brazil, joined May 2005, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3352 times:

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 17):
I believe this is the accident that TP727 is referring to.

You got me. That is the only occasion i can remember that a RG crew screwed up. There are a few other accidents on the referred airline´s record, but on every one that comes to my mind their crew did a get job.
RG´s crew are known world wide as well trained. I wouldn´t say the same about JJ a few years back. Don´t know how they are doing now, it´s probably better, since i haven´t heard any relevant thing about the subject lately. Many people may not remember, but some 10 years ago a JJ captain was able to land on an airport thinking he was landing on another. The F100 was to land at VIX, but land in Guarapari (a small town some 25nm far from the right destination).
Anyways, i do hope the best for RG (besides i think they are only having a small taste of their own medicine - poison may be better) and JJ. The latest only needs to keep the good work and be a little more aggressive. The other needs to put their act together, stop wasting money on nonprofitable routes and keep their acft flying.
If people are to loose their jobs in order for the airline keep flying, so be it. It´s better than everyone to loose. If the route does not make money, drop it and cut the patriotism crap. Flying a route on patriotism will let any airline on empty pockets.
TP727


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 24, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3259 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 21):
TAM has just begin it's brand marketing at London. Some cabs are showing their First Class seats. We could see a London JJ flight to Gatwick next year with the A332 TAM will receive back from Etihad.

Correct. I confirm many cabs in LON are showing TAM lie-flat seats on First and Business. TAM always had a good marketing campaign in LON offering excellent prices for tickets from LON to Brazil via CDG.

I can see TAM will start flights to LON (i.e. LGW) in 2006. I think the flight will be codeshare with VS. Recently TAM has developed very close ties with VS and TAM shares VS'ss MARVELOUS business lounge in JFK. [VS and JJ even have somehow a similar corporate identity with the red/white combination].

VS was also looking into operating in the Brazilian market and GIG was mentioned as a potential destination. However, if VS and JJ codeshare with flight would operate in GRU and maybe, with this VS arrangement, JJ could even land in LHR.

Rgs,


25 LipeGIG : If they keep loosing aircrafts, very true. In fact zero ! Completely private. But it debts with public sector are over US$ 2 billion. Due to historic
26 Post contains images PPVRA : Or if they can get a deal settled with an investor. The only way would be if they took some of RG's longhaul fleet and crew. You read the article, RG
27 JJMNGR : Neo, You are right when say JJ is slow in expanding international routes...but to expand in some markets entering as a second flag carrier would only
28 Ghost77 : Truth! JJ always said it and everybody yield at him! So sad to see RG in this situation... nothing against RG but quite frankly I don't see them endi
29 XA744 : Thank you Felipe, very comprehensive and authoritative info you are throwing in here. Regards
30 Galeaocumbica : Hi all, I don't think we will see RG out of the sky, at least, not now or next year. Brazilian Govern won't allowed it. All these problems are not new
31 LipeGIG : GaleaoCumbica, there are several rumors that RG will drop LIS as soon as TP get additional aircraft and grant an additional GRU-LIS and GIG-LIS fligh
32 Hardiwv : Dropping the extensions AMS or CPH wont make any difference to RG flights. If RG does not fly the extensions the a/c will lie iddle in LHR and CDG wi
33 PPVRA : well, it can. If AMS hurts their profits, or lower the number of cycles (delays maintenance requirements). Very likely. JJ signed an agreement with V
34 Hardiwv : This is not the case. AMS actually improves RG results to CDG. AMS is responsble for 60% of the cargo on the route to CDG and 20% of the pax. I menti
35 LipeGIG : Hardi and PPVRA, could be CPH as it's the base of another Star partner (SAS). It will be the same situation of NRT route, i.e. RG drop and SAS nowada
36 Post contains images A342 : Or MUC , but see above.
37 Ghost77 : And then why would RG downgrade to B767? Apart from the visa issue and aircraft mx problems, they should be sending to MEX an M11 to MEX if a 772 is
38 Post contains images LipeGIG : You're 100% correct. A342, i think that LH have to decide if SCL will be kept on the network, if they will just open a new base at CNF or come back t
39 PPVRA : Missed that, my bad. Agree 100% though. Some company named Calco chartered one too, but to BUE for new year. They can always ship the cargo via FRA o
40 Hardiwv : Dropping CPH would make more sense if compared to the AMS leg. AMS has shown strong performance on cargo for RG since Martinair Cargo withdrew its GR
41 LipeGIG : They downgrade MEX due to the lack of widebodies. Nowadays for your info, MIA and MAD both are run with a single M11 (normally 2), BOG will receive a
42 Post contains images A342 : Thanks, and welcome on my RU list ! A new BASE at CNF ? Sorry, but that won´t happen. Maybe you mean a new DESTINATION ?
43 LipeGIG : Wow, my mistake. Again, you're 100% correct, a new Destination!!!! Infraero is offering a lot of incentives to see LH in CNF (also will be the only o
44 Hardiwv : I assume LB operates two weekly VVI-GIG-CNF, correct? So LH would be the second international regular flights from CNF. Rgs,
45 LipeGIG : They have stoped Hardi, about 3 months ago, both GIG and CNF. GIG is expected to resume on the summer, nothing confirmed yet. CNF keeps no one intern
46 Ghost77 : Thank you very much for the information given... it amazes me the fact how RG deals with this issues, IIRC this will make 2 months since I first star
47 LipeGIG : They expect to receive some cash selling their Cargo operation to a North American Fund, but their Union fill a lot of requests for the Chapter 11 Co
48 TP727 : You are right, i did not have that information. But even if i had, the fact that there´s a DAC inspector present, it´s still the captain´s respons
49 Neo : Hum, I'm not sure I agree. JJ can be in good shape now, but it definetly does not have the capacity today to take over ALL PROFITABLE RG routes in a
50 LipeGIG : IMO, Tam only could run these rotes if they can obtain more planes. Remember that they need at least: 4 aircrafts to run FRA, 2 aircrafts to run LHR-
51 Neo : That's exactly what I think it will happen if RG stop flying anytime soon! This can be a huge setback in as it would be extremely hard to reenter som
52 LipeGIG : Neo, i would say that recover the market it will be very hard. What protects a lot the RG market is the fact that up to 65% international pax are fro
53 PPVRA : Agree. Generally speaking, GOL has the lowest prices. So JJ will need to have better deals on international flights than foreign carriers for connect
54 JJMNGR : TP727 I was not on JJ when the bomb problem happened, nor have more information about it that everybody has. I was at TP at that time. Neo When I ment
55 LipeGIG : Right. But also, i can say that it even better a single staff runing 2 flights (like Tam is doing at CDG and MIA). FRA is also an important O&D to Br
56 Neo : Well, I didn't mean that JJ does not have the capacity to make profits in routes that are profitable to RG nowadays, what I said is that if a route i
57 LipeGIG : Perfect. Also i don't believe JJ or any other airline nowadays can obtain more aircrafts (at this moment i understand that obtain a 777 or A332 could
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Route Pairs With Most Acft Types Operating posted Mon Apr 24 2006 17:25:45 by BHXDTW
Indian Airlines Acft Grounded For Lack Of Spares posted Sun Mar 12 2006 23:08:35 by Lumberton
RG With Extra GIG-MIA Flights In July posted Thu May 19 2005 21:40:45 by PPVRA
Airlines With Only 1 Acft? posted Fri May 7 2004 11:11:26 by Ts-ior
Help With America West 31, OGG-PHX posted Sat Nov 11 2006 15:29:55 by Flyboy7974
RG: Justice Interrupts JJ's Meeting With Anac posted Fri Aug 25 2006 12:48:37 by C010T3
LH, UA, ANA Terminate Codeshare With RG posted Wed Aug 23 2006 22:02:13 by Hardiwv
Delta With 2 Planes Grounded At GIG posted Fri Jul 14 2006 05:27:27 by LipeGIG
RG Buyers Can't Come Up With Money, It's Over posted Sat Jun 24 2006 08:26:38 by B707stu
China Services With RG And AR posted Sat Mar 5 2005 13:56:01 by 123