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BA Doubling Flights To India- How's It Possible  
User currently offlineEnglandair From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2000, 2228 posts, RR: 3
Posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5809 times:

Hi all,

With the recent deregulation in India, British Airways are dramatically increasing their frequencies to the country, as well as opening a new route to Bangalore. In fact by next summer, BA will have almost doubled the number of weekly services to India and in preparation are spending around £1million (approx. $176000) on tailoring onboard services to attract a larger Indian clientele.

By the summer British Airways will serve:
- Bangalore- 5x weekly B777
- Delhi- 14x weekly B747/B777
- Chennai- 6x weekly B747
- Mumbai- 14x weekly B747/B777
- Kolkata- 3x weekly B777

So, my question is this: considering there are no extra aircraft joining the fleet (to my knowledge, at least!), how are BA able to add so many flights? Have frequencies on other non-Indian routes been cut back to allow for aircraft/ slots/ crews/ etc to operate the flights?

Many thanks for any thoughts or info!  Smile


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37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3767 posts, RR: 19
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5770 times:

Maybe more flights were added due to BA dropping Saudi Arabian routes?

Are BA the largest European airline in India now, or is it still LH?

Rob!  Smile


User currently offlineWillyj From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 468 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5708 times:

Quoting Englandair (Thread starter):
around £1million (approx. $176000)

I wish that were the case... obviously you forgot a 0 on the end of that!

BA has such a large fleet of longhaul aircraft that I'm sure they can tweak their schedules a little bit and find a few spare frames. Yes, I think it was mentioned earlier that the Saudi frames would be used for this expansion. Has BA discontinued any other Longhaul routes recently? For the winter they have a few less flights to the US, maybe that's where the planes are coming from?


User currently offlinePA110 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1999 posts, RR: 23
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5688 times:
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I was told by my sales rep that they are pulling the 747 from the NBO service and putting it on the India routes. NBO will be operated by 777. This is really going to hurt the tourism/safari business because of the huge reduction in the number of seats to the destination. I hope KQ has the resources to get its hands on more aircraft and go double-daily from LHR. The demand next summer will far exceed capacity.

[Edited 2005-10-07 22:19:40]


It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 48
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5631 times:

Quoting B742 (Reply 1):
Are BA the largest European airline in India now, or is it still LH?

Currently, it is LH with about 38 weekly flights, but that may change by next summer if BA comes through with the proposed additions. I believe LH has plans to add new locations and increase frequency to some existing locations.

[Edited 2005-10-07 22:41:01]

User currently offlinePomnath From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5431 times:

It is obvious to most of us here in India that the travel business to the US will suffer co-terminus with the developments in the US economy. Obviously the aircraft for India are coming from those pulled off the US routes.

User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3219 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5409 times:

Wow - that's a huge increase in their total services. Makes BD's 4x PW to BOM seem small/insignificant.

I think we'll see a reduction in fares during offseason - this kind of capacity is hard to sustain at the normal prices!



Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5267 times:

Quoting Nimish (Reply 6):
I think we'll see a reduction in fares during offseason - this kind of capacity is hard to sustain at the normal prices!

The increase in capacity pursuant to the liberalized bilateral will surely result in fare reductions. Demand is steadily increasing, but the supply was increased in one big step. That can only result in a drop in prices in the short term. An OpenSkies treaty would result in low prices over the long term.


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19202 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5219 times:

I wonder whether additional cities, like COK, HYD, ATQ and TRV, will ever be served by BA, BD, 9W or AI from LHR. (I realise AMD is served non-stop by AI.) I believe HYD's runway is on an insufficient length to fly non-stop to Europe, so it could possibly be routed LHR-AMD-HYD or whatever. What happened to BA's talks re. HYD? They were, at one stage, considering HYD.


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineStealthpilot From India, joined May 2004, 510 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5081 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 8):
I believe HYD's runway is on an insufficient length to fly non-stop to Europe

The Runway at HYD can handle LH 340's, 777's and also 744's (AI?). Runway lenght is not the factor.

Quoting Englandair (Thread starter):
By the summer British Airways will serve:
- Bangalore- 5x weekly B777

By summer BLR will go daily. I beleive it is 5X presently

-Nikhil



eP007
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19202 posts, RR: 52
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4994 times:

Quoting Stealthpilot (Reply 9):
The Runway at HYD can handle LH 340's, 777's and also 744's (AI?). Runway lenght is not the factor.

Well, that is what A.net members said. But I should have known better: fact is far less frequently submitted than fiction. Anyway, I suspect HYD will be served at some stage, either with 763s or 772s. Would BA serve HYD non-stop?

Also, I suspect that DEL will go twice-daily at some stage.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineSpike From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1170 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4968 times:

Seeing as India buys very little (look at the airport you land in), I don't see what all the fuss is over? India routes are easy to fill in either direction from most major cities - expect more curry on BA with their GBP1m (not a lot though is it). BAs pricing to india will seperate the men from the boys. Which airline is more likely to be Oneworld in India? I'd go with Jet Airways for their lack of Asian routes and established India slots.

Apart from that, I'd give the whole place a very wide berth until the government invests in its society. Indian airports, companies, infrastructure, banks and media are a joke.

jmhpov


Spike.


User currently offlineCHI787ORD From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 517 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4950 times:

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 4):
. I believe LH has plans to add new locations and increase frequency to some existing locations.

ATQ and AMD I believe.


User currently onlineKaran69 From India, joined Oct 2004, 2887 posts, RR: 18
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4885 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 8):
believe HYD's runway is on an insufficient length to fly non-stop to Europe,



Quoting Stealthpilot (Reply 9):
The Runway at HYD can handle LH 340's, 777's and also 744's (AI?). Runway lenght is not the factor

KLM also operates 3x weekly MD-11 services.
SQ 777s
LH 340s

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 10):
Also, I suspect that DEL will go twice-daily at some stage.

Plans are already in place to make them double daily by end of next year


User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3219 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4870 times:

Quoting Spike (Reply 11):
Seeing as India buys very little (look at the airport you land in), I don't see what all the fuss is over

What is this all about?



Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
User currently offlineAlanUK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4843 times:

Quoting Englandair (Thread starter):
Have frequencies on other non-Indian routes been cut back to allow for aircraft/ slots/ crews/ etc to operate the flights?

There's also the fact that BA is currently transferring 4 more short haul 767s to the WorldWide fleet, possibly to make some 777s available for other routes.

Regards


User currently offlinePomnath From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4809 times:

Quoting Spike (Reply 11):
Apart from that, I'd give the whole place a very wide berth until the government invests in its society. Indian airports, companies, infrastructure, banks and media are a joke.

Hunh? Most everybody in the world is knocking at the door to be let in. Could you please be specific in what aspects of India you find a joke? And what has this got to do with aviation?


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 7459 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4627 times:

Quoting Englandair (Thread starter):
how are BA able to add so many flights?

When are the 763s on lease to Qantas due to be returned?


User currently offlineEnglandair From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2000, 2228 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4394 times:

Thanks a lot for your replies

Does anyone know what the 'new' B767s will be used for? Maybe replacing B777 on some routes so the T7 can be used to India?


Thanks  Smile


User currently offlineHimmat01 From India, joined Dec 2004, 1047 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4380 times:

Quoting Stealthpilot (Reply 9):
Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 8):
I believe HYD's runway is on an insufficient length to fly non-stop to Europe

The Runway at HYD can handle LH 340's, 777's and also 744's (AI?). Runway lenght is not the factor.

The rwy length is a factor. A fully loaded B747-400 cannot land on the main ILS rwy if there is a tailwind.



An airplane might disappoint any pilot but it'll never surprise a good one.
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19202 posts, RR: 52
Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4358 times:

Didn't BA say, sometime ago, that it wanted to operate to both BLR and HYD using 763 machines? I think it considered a one-stop service to HYD. I might be wrong, but I vagely remember that it did.


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4348 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 20):
think it considered a one-stop service to HYD.

With stop where? Maybe in the Gulf and explore 5th freedom (does BA have 5th freedom in the context of the new bilat from the Gulf? AFAIK yes)..

It will be interesting to see how the liberalization of bilats will lead to the exploiration of "new remote" markets by the carriers.. I see a lot of potential for AI in this field (due to lesser costs and perfect price-based competition)


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19202 posts, RR: 52
Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4325 times:

I am quite sure - but could still be wrong - that BA said it was considering flying via BLR. But that'd be a little silly.

Do you think COK or TRV or both will ever be served from LON perhaps twice- or thrice-weekly?



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4305 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 22):
that BA said it was considering flying via BLR. But that'd be a little silly.

That would indeed be silly. They would never get 7th (?) Freedom.. would be a traditional AI milk run  Silly

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 22):
Do you think COK or TRV or both will ever be served from LON perhaps twice- or thrice-weekly?

I do think they will.. the Keralites do have a market, and building on 6th freedom (and scrapping the silly Transit visa) could make BA a strong player.

One thing which is noteworthy with the LCC competition: Point-to-point strategies are again receiving a new momentum.


User currently offlineMonkeyboi From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 457 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4239 times:

The new India plans look like this:

From October 2005:

- Move from daily to double daily flights to BOM
- Begin serving BLR 5 times per week
- Increase MAA frequency from 2 per week to 6 per week.


From March 2006:

- Move from daily to double daily on DEL
- Increase BLR from 5 x weekly to daily
- Increase MAA from 6 x weekly to daily


This will be achieved by the dropping or some LH routes, such as Saudi (and also rumoured Luanda).

Also the long-haul fleet has grown by 4 aircraft through the transferring of 4 767-300's from short-haul to long-haul. These 767's will be reconfigured with Club Sleeper seats and World Traveller Plus (No First). These aircraft will begin to replace the 777's on some 'thin' US and african routes and the 777's transferred to the india routes.

An 'Indian Routes Focus Group' has also been set up within BA. Their job is to look at every aspect of the customer journey; from booking, the airport experience, inflight service & catering, arrivals and transfers, as well as improvements to the Executive Club.

Sales and Marketing are gearing up for major advertising campaigns in the UK, India and North America. The message of these campaigns will focus on the world of opportunity BA is opening up to India through increased services, a global network and an enhanced product offering.

There will be an 'Indian Route Focus roadshow' in the crew report centre at LHR to allow the cabin crew to gain knowledge and ask questions about Indian culture and Indian passengers expectations.

The reason for all the 'India Focus Group' etc etc:
"Our Inflight customer satisfaction levels on all indian routes are consistently 10% lower than then BA longhaul network average. This covers both UK and non-UK passengers and would indicate that our customers perceive that the service on these routes is lower than on others".

Changes to the Onboard Product:

- An investment of GBP1 million in a package of enhancement to the onboard product on indian routes.

World Traveller and World Traveller Plus: (From Oct 05)
- New menus ex India
- On MAA,CCU,BLR the removal of the second 'hot baguette service' and the re-instatement of a second hot meal.
- Cold snacks for mid flight

FIRST/Club World (From Apr 06)
- Working with the renowned chef Vineet Bhatia (the first Michelin starred Indian chef in europe) the development of a new Indian style cuisine and eating experience.


25 Pe@rson : BA’s second-daily service from LHR to DEL is in Amadeus.net now. The additional service, #257, will be operated by the 772. It’ll depart LHR at 17
26 Jaysit : Indian companies a joke? What dense bubble are you living in? Foreign investment in India is growing by double digits, and foreign investment by Indi
27 Pe@rson : BA have some very good fares to India at the moment, including £399 return all-in to both BOM and MAA.
28 Pe@rson : While I realise that the demand between the UK and India and vice-versa is huge, I wonder how many people connect, from other British destinations, ma
29 Monkeyboi : I don't know Pea@rson, but I DO know that BA was fed up with the amount of passengers flying to India/Pakistan/Bangladesh with EK/QR etc via the gulf.
30 Pomnath : BA (and for that matter, VS) will be even more fed up with the numbers that start moving on 9W and the newly resurgent AI, especially on the non-LHR
31 HAWK21M : Very true.Can't wait for the International Flying rule of 5yrs to be dropped to 3yrs. regds MEL
32 Pe@rson : I would choose the new flights times every time if it was the same price: it is far more convenient.
33 Pomnath : As pure Delhi or London passengers, the convenience of a late night departure LHR and a morning arrival DEL is crown only by a comfortable afternoon
34 Pe@rson : ... is very nice indeed.
35 Nimish : Much needed to get a lot of Indian fliers on BA - currently I can't earn a single mile on BA if I fly any of their economy fares, and there's no sens
36 Schipholjfk : WHAT????? Exactly what is the problem with US Economy? Still less than 5% unemployment and another month of growth inspite of Hurricanes, etc.
37 Mrniji : Unemployment figures are inadequate alone for the interpretation of the economy if they are not followed by other figures
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