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AA: DFW-China Soon?  
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11432 posts, RR: 61
Posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3270 times:

Excerpt from a speech yesterday by American Airlines CEO Gerard Arpey to the World Affairs Council of Dallas:

"In fact, North Texas did 10 billion dollars worth of business with China last year, making that country our largest trading partner for the second year in a row.

This was achieved, of course, despite the fact that there is no direct air service between Dallas and China -- a problem, you can rest assured, we intend to fix as soon as possible. At the moment, the highly restrictive aviation treaty between the U.S. and China is keeping us from connecting Dallas and China directly. However, the good news is that starting next April we will be offering one-stop service to Shanghai via Chicago.

Hopefully, the non-stop service we all want is not too far away. And when that day comes, we will be ready. A new flight to China would certainly complement the robust service we already offer at DFW to Europe, Latin America and Asia.
"

Interesting ...

31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2914 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3256 times:

Very interesting and not surprising. It's been said the DFW-Asia flights perform well (on both AA and KE) and I think someone on A.net commented that DFW-PEK is on a drawing board when the next go-around of US-China authorities are discussed.

Not sure why I haven't done this already, but welcome to my respected users, Commavia.

[Edited 2005-10-08 03:55:49]

User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3238 times:

I doubt that you will see DFW-China nonstop in the next 5 years. There are so many more usefull destinations even for AA before DFW is even considered.

AA is strong in ORD and LAX and both lack China connections. So even AA will implement routes to China from LAX and ORD before DFW.


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11432 posts, RR: 61
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3227 times:

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 2):
AA is strong in ORD and LAX and both lack China connections. So even AA will implement routes to China from LAX and ORD before DFW.

Chicago will be getting a China connection in less than six months, with a daily AA 777 to Shanghai, and I highly doubt that American would take a foray into the Los Angeles-China market, up against its partner China Eastern, when it could link Beijing and/or Shanghai with its largest hub, providing onward connections on hundreds of flights to dozens of cities, and enormous cargo connectivity to key, burgeoning freight markets like Mexico and South America.

I think DFW-PEK/PVG is much more likely that you suggest, and far more likely than seeing AA fly to China from any other U.S. gateway besides perhaps ORD.


User currently offlineAAgent From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 560 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3221 times:

Commavia,

This is good news indeed. American has eagerly sought the opportunity to begin non-stop service to China from DFW. Clearly, Asia presents a huge opportunity for profitable expansion and I for one look forward to the chance to add some new points to our ever expanding international route map. The winds of change may at last be shifting in our favor. Here's to hoping the new Asian routes come to fruition for American Airlines.

Best Regards,
AAgent



War Eagle!
User currently offlineTockeyhockey From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 950 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3211 times:

i think this is further proof that AA is among the very best candidates for the 772LR and theoretical 772ULR. there's no doubt in my mind that DFW will draw traffic away from UA's stonghold's at LAX and SFO.

DFW is the future of asian and european traffic -- one stop shopping for all connections to the US.


User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2914 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3186 times:

Quoting Tockeyhockey (Reply 5):
DFW is the future of asian and european traffic -- one stop shopping for all connections to the US.

I agree. It is centrally located and can probably one day sustain non-stops to Australia, New Zealand, the aforementioned China and the Middle East. It's not outside the realm of possibilities that DFW could surpass ATL as the world's largest hub.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32613 posts, RR: 72
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3185 times:

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 2):

AA is strong in ORD and LAX and both lack China connections.

Huh? Three Chinese airlines fly China-Los Angeles non-stop to three cities, while United has daily O'Hare-Beijing and O'Hare-Shanghai service. AA will be starting ORD-PVG this April.



a.
User currently offlineAAgent From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 560 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3166 times:

Quoting Tockeyhockey (Reply 5):
DFW is the future of asian and european traffic -- one stop shopping for all connections to the US.



Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 6):
It's not outside the realm of possibilities that DFW could surpass ATL as the world's largest hub.

Wow! That sounds great! Maybe you two should apply for PR jobs at DFW...you could help transform DFW into the top international hub that it's destined to be.

Best Regards,
AAgent



War Eagle!
User currently offlineTockeyhockey From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 950 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3172 times:

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 6):
It's not outside the realm of possibilities that DFW could surpass ATL as the world's largest hub.

from AA's standpoint, the technology is finally starting to match up with the geography. leading airlines from all corners of the world are going to pour in once the 772LR becomes a mainline airline in large numbers.

imagine -- PEK - BWI, STL, even IND with one quick stop.


User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3123 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
Huh? Three Chinese airlines fly China-Los Angeles non-stop to three cities, while United has daily O'Hare-Beijing and O'Hare-Shanghai service. AA will be starting ORD-PVG this April.

Sorry, very misleading. I meant AA doesn't offer any flight China from LAX or ORD. I know that AA will begin ORD-China soon. But why should they start DFW-china before they serve ORD-PEK/PVG and LAX-PE/PVG?

Quoting Tockeyhockey (Reply 5):
i think this is further proof that AA is among the very best candidates for the 772LR and theoretical 772ULR. there's no doubt in my mind that DFW will draw traffic away from UA's stonghold's at LAX and SFO.

how should they draw away any traffic from UA in SFO adn LAX? The only destination UA serves from SFO who could also easily connect via DFW are IAH, SAT, AUS and DFW intself. But I doubt that a significant number of their traffic in SFO is coming from Texas. From Texas it is as fast to travel via ORD. So AA from DFW is no real danger for UA in SFO.

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 6):
I agree. It is centrally located and can probably one day sustain non-stops to Australia, New Zealand, the aforementioned China and the Middle East

Maybe, but nobody else than AA or its partners will ever serve DFW from OZ/NZ. DFW is of no interest for anybody else.

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 6):
It's not outside the realm of possibilities that DFW could surpass ATL as the world's largest hub.

It never will in the next 20 years. Once ORD has it's new layout they are the one who really could challenge ATL.
But the future as the biggest hub lies in Asia. In 20 years you can be happy to be no. 5.


User currently offlineDaron4000 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 712 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3114 times:

Don't forget ORD-HKG on UA 10x weelky on B744!

User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3101 times:

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 10):
Maybe, but nobody else than AA or its partners will ever serve DFW from OZ/NZ. DFW is of no interest for anybody else.

don't be surprised if QF go SYD-DFW route if they decide to pick up some 777-200LR's...



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32613 posts, RR: 72
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3099 times:

Quoting Tockeyhockey (Reply 9):
imagine -- PEK - BWI, STL, even IND with one quick stop.

United Airlines offers it. As do Air Canada and Continental.

[Edited 2005-10-08 04:52:19]


a.
User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3071 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 12):
don't be surprised if QF go SYD-DFW route if they decide to pick up some 777-200LR's...

Well, QF is a strong oneworld partner of AA. It makes perfect sense for them to fly into DFW. I even wonder why they haven't already started it, at least via AKL due to a lack of an appropriate aircraft.

But like I said, nobody else than AA or one of their codeshare partners has much interest in DFW.

Which carrier from Europe or Asia serves DFW? I can only think of LH and BA. Is KE still serving DFW on some days?


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11432 posts, RR: 61
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3041 times:

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 10):
But why should they start DFW-china before they serve ORD-PEK/PVG and LAX-PE/PVG?

Perhaps because both markets are saturated, and both would draw fire from established competitors, whereas opening up a nonstop DFW-China link would face no competition and offer a wide range of onward connections through the world's second largest air hub.

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 10):
how should they draw away any traffic from UA in SFO adn LAX? The only destination UA serves from SFO who could also easily connect via DFW are IAH, SAT, AUS and DFW intself.

Huh? Try again. There's a lot more that DFW can offer in terms of connections beyond Houston, San Antonio and Austin. Try Atlanta. Try Florida. Try the rapidly-expanding, oil-rich Gulf Coast region. Try half of the eastern seaboard. Try Northwest Arkansas, home of Wal*Mart, which could probably fill up an entire 777 nonstop to China each day! (Surely, I jest.) It's a bit more than just Texas, to say the least.

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 10):
But I doubt that a significant number of their traffic in SFO is coming from Texas.

No, but as Arpey alluded to, bilateral trade and economic ties between the fast-growing, economically dynamic Metroplex, state of Texas, and entire southern region of the U.S. are booming. And D/FW will offer the fastest, easiest and most convenient access to a region that is rapidly expanding its economic ties to the Asia/Pacific region and China, specifically.

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 14):
But like I said, nobody else than AA or one of their codeshare partners has much interest in DFW.



Quoting JoFMO (Reply 14):
Which carrier from Europe or Asia serves DFW? I can only think of LH and BA.

Correct. LH brings in a daily A340 from FRA, which apparently does fairly well, BA brings in a daily 777 from LGW, which apparently doesn't do as well, and KE brings in a 777 nonstop from ICN three times per week, which is also a fairly solid performer apparently. Also, on the international front, TACA provides a daily A320 link to SAL, AeroMexico flies daily to MEX, and Mexicana links DFW with Zacatecas and Morelia in Mexico, as well. In addition to gradual expansion of international passenger traffic, international cargo at DFW is booming -- with multiple Asian cargo airlines, EVA, Singapore and Cathay among them, launching all-cargo flights to D/FW in the past few years.


User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 2996 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 15):
Huh? Try again. There's a lot more that DFW can offer in terms of connections beyond Houston, San Antonio and Austin. Try Atlanta. Try Florida. Try the rapidly-expanding, oil-rich Gulf Coast region. Try half of the eastern seaboard. Try Northwest Arkansas, home of Wal*Mart, which could probably fill up an entire 777 nonstop to China each day! (Surely, I jest.) It's a bit more than just Texas, to say the least

But these destinations can't draw away traffic from SFO and UA because UA doesn't serve them from SFO. They serve them from ORD, and maybe they will loose some traffic in ORD to AA in DFW, but not SFO!

from everywhere east of Texas it is faster to transfer in ORD to Asia than in California. Texas is on the edge and both ways need equal time.


User currently offlineTockeyhockey From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 950 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2780 times:

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 10):
how should they draw away any traffic from UA in SFO adn LAX? The only destination UA serves from SFO who could also easily connect via DFW are IAH, SAT, AUS and DFW intself. But I doubt that a significant number of their traffic in SFO is coming from Texas. From Texas it is as fast to travel via ORD. So AA from DFW is no real danger for UA in SFO.

i think you missed my point -- because of the incredible connections available domestically at AA, passengers in fast growing areas that need to connect with china for business would prefer to fly to DFW than to SFO or LAX.

AA will become the choice of travelers out of the southeast, texas, and lower midwest. this will give access to true growth areas in the US to china for the first time with one stop -- greenville, shreeveport, mobile, etc. this is where the US economy is really growing, and where conections to china are becoming more and more important.


User currently offlineAa777flyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2746 times:

It would be cool to see AA fly to HKG...Any chance of that ever happening?

User currently offlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2351 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2732 times:

When the hell will AA ask for something more useful like DFW/ORD/LAX-HKG?

If I want to go to PEK, I can connect on CX.



The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2914 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2732 times:

Quoting Aa777flyer (Reply 18):
It would be cool to see AA fly to HKG...Any chance of that ever happening?

I think HKG is a very strong possibility given AA's relationship with CX. I would love to see DFW-HKG and the long rumored ORD-HKG come to fruition. In fact I would have predicted AA's entry into HKG long before NGO.

The obvious obstacle is AA's need for 777 aircraft. Does anyone know if could get 5th freedom rights beyond HKG to say India, Vietnam, Singapore etc.?


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2721 times:

Lets be very clear. There isn't any real news here.

There are no authorities for AA to fly DFW-PEK/PVG, and none on the horizon. It would be 2008 at the earliest given the current climate before more would become available.

N


User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2701 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 3):
Chicago will be getting a China connection in less than six months

And how soon after will AA drop that service as well. AA has a horrible history of dropping Asia soon after flights commence. As was the case with Nagoya, Osaka, and Taipei.

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 14):
It makes perfect sense for them to fly into DFW

No, it does not. QF, cannot, and will not rely on connecting traffic alone. The only North American gateways that Qantas will be adding anytime soon are SFO, and YVR with the 747-400. Also keep in mind that One World has very little connecting traffic in SFO.

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 16):
But these destinations can't draw away traffic from SFO and UA because UA doesn't serve them from SFO

Try again, most of those cities are linked via United/United Express to SFO!

KAHALA777


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11432 posts, RR: 61
Reply 23, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2678 times:

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 22):
AA has a horrible history of dropping Asia soon after flights commence. As was the case with Nagoya, Osaka, and Taipei.

Osaka was flown by American for over two years. It was dropped following 9/11. Taipei was dropped after the tech bubble burst and San Jose lost its luster. Nagoya simply failed to generate the premium traffic it was intended to. American is not stupid, and they don't really have room for error right now for staying in markets as long as some may want, just because those markets might, perhaps, some day, turn a profit. Osaka will be returning this November, and will probably be quite successful, and Chicago-Shanghai launches in April, and -- given the burgeoning market in China and the stunning growth in economic and trade ties betwee the U.S. and China -- I highly doubt that Shanghai is going to be dropped quickly. It will most likely be just like New York-Tokyo and Los Angeles-Tokyo was for AA: naysayers dismissed both moves as "stupid" for going up against established players in both markets, which some regarded saturated. P.S., American is now extremely succesful on both routes, and has outlasted one of the longest "established players" -- Northwest -- in New York-Tokyo.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 22):
No, it does not.

Respectfully, yes it does.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 22):
QF, cannot, and will not rely on connecting traffic alone.

Who said anything about connecting traffic alone? DFW will generate some demand for the flights, but no doubt, connections will make up the majority of the traffic on the route. And, by the way, QF will happily rely on connecting traffic in this market, as DFW is going to open up more U.S. cities to a single-stop connection to Australia than ever before. Markets that have never had single-connection options for flights down under -- I'm talking LaGuardia, I'm talking Washington Reagan, I'm talking Raleigh/Durham, plus huge markets which will have more convenient service -- I'm talking Atlanta, I'm talking Miami, I'm talking Boston -- would all have easy, fast and convenient connections through the world's second largest hubs.

IMO, QF at DFW is just a matter of time, and it makes perfect sense.


User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2662 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 23):
Taipei was dropped after the tech bubble burst and San Jose lost its luster.

Incorrect, American Airlines ended the SJC-TPE 777, quickly after 9-11.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 23):
DFW will generate some demand for the flights, but no doubt, connections will make up the majority of the traffic on the route

The demand from DFW is dwarfed by Los Angeles, San Francisco, Toronto, Vancouver, and New York.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 23):
I'm talking LaGuardia, I'm talking Washington Reagan, I'm talking Raleigh/Durham, plus huge markets which will have more convenient service

Psst.... La Guardia, neighbors JFK, which by the way has a 747-400 via LAX to SYD ala Qantas. AA, connects RDU to JFK, a Qantas destination!

Quoting Commavia (Reply 23):
I'm talking Atlanta, I'm talking Miami, I'm talking Boston -- would all have easy, fast and convenient connections through the world's second largest hubs

Psst... Atlanta passengers connect daily using Delta or United to Los Angeles, or San Francisco, where they can connect to Qantas or United nonstop to Australia.

Psst... Miami passengers have connecting flights daily on American Airlines to Los Angeles and San Francisco to connect with United Airlines, and Qantas to Australia.

Psst... Boston passengers have connecting flights daily on American Airlines, United Airlines, and Delta Airlines via Los Angeles and San Francisco to United and Qantas to Australia.

Question for you, if Dallas is such a priority why is it that Chicago is next in line after San Francisco and Vancouver?

KAHALA777


25 Commavia : Like I said, after the tech bubble burst and San Jose lost its luster ... i.e., after 9/11 (yes, I know, the bubble burst pre-9/11, but SJC was spare
26 Bkkair : I don't see AA flying to HKG with their own a/c. AA flying their own a/c to PEK and PVG would make sense because connecting in HKG and then up to Beij
27 Kahala777 : A few facts, a few years back Qantas had planned to offer ORD as a tag to one of its Los Angeles flights, if memory serves correct that destination w
28 Commavia : Yes, I see, some "facts" from a flight attendant. Remind me, Kahala, how -- exactly -- did the QF flights to ORD do? Oh yeah, that's right, now I rem
29 Jacobin777 : you answered your own statement.....aside from HOU/LAS, AA flies to most of the majour airports in the United States from SFO........ORD,JFK,BOS,MIA,
30 Chinaeastern : THat's why AA is going to start ORD-PVG. For LAX, AA codeshares with MU on LAX-PVG HKG would be good for connections to S.E. Asia, but again, why wou
31 Jakob77 : FYI, AA does NOT codeshare on CX to TPE. AA codeshares only on 2 NRT flights, 3 BKK flights, 2 SIN flights, 2 CGK flights, 2 KUL flights, 1 NGO fligh
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