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AA Replacement For The MD80's And A300-600.  
User currently offlineCV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 12362 times:

Hi!

I've just finnished to make a reservation with American. First time I'm flying with them so I'm quite curious to see how they operate and also I want to check their fleet too!
I've notice that I'll be flying some airplanes that I'm sure AA is thinking about replacing them. From BOG to MIA I'll fly in the A300-600, a plane that I found out is in AA fleet since 1989. And also from DFW to FAT I'll be flying the MD83. I know that this type is getting some good years in AA service so my question will be - what AA will get to replace these two models? In my opinion and because it looks that AA is much relying on Boeing that the 787 could be a good replacement for the A300. In the case of the MD80 I think the 737-600 and 700 would fit perfectly, specially taking in mind that AA already uses the 737-800.
I'm looking forward to fly with them and see how they go!
Regards

109 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIRelayer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 1073 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 12340 times:

There are tons of threads on this. The replacement for the A300's will probably be a downsize...787's are a possibility but nothing else comes to mind for a direct 1-1 replacement. The replacement for the Mad Dogs will probably be either the 737NG or whatever Boeing comes up with next in that category. Regardless of when they replace them, AA has a gentleman's agreement to only buy Boeing's (unless it is commuter aircraft). The Mad Dogs will hang around for the while for sure due to the sheer number of them and AA's financial situation.

-IR


User currently offlineDeltaWings From Switzerland, joined Aug 2004, 1294 posts, RR: 17
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 12320 times:

The only other plane in the size of the A300 is the 787-8/3. The A300s may also be replaced by some 777s along with the 787.
The 737-700 is of course the ideal replacement for the MDs



Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
User currently offlineMX757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 628 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 12318 times:

Quoting IRelayer (Reply 1):
The Mad Dogs will hang around for the while for sure due to the sheer number of them and AA's financial situation.

I agree, AA still has almost 300 MD-80's. And some of them at not that old. TWA was still purchasing them until 2000. They were the last MD-80 customer.



Is it broke...? Yeah I'll fix it.
User currently offlineMauriceB From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2490 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 12272 times:

the MD-80's will be around for atleast 10 years... they have 300+ of them and so it would cost a lot to replace them all together at one time... so most likely is that the oldest will leave first , being replaced by a small number of 737-700/800 or whatever boeing comes with . think we might see the last MD-80 leave the fleet in about 15/17 years.....

User currently offlineCV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 12242 times:

Hi!

AA is operating 300 MD80's???? I never realized that! Anyway if they indeed have new MD83 has the ones that came from TWA of course they will stay around for a good bunch of years. But if we talk about the Airbus A300 I think AA must be thinking seriously to start to replace them. Anyway thanks for your feedback! I guess I will have my day flying the A300 but the MD80 I'll have a few more years to try too!
regards


User currently offlineMauriceB From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2490 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 12229 times:

woops sorry, i mean 200 plus....... they have about 240 i thought

User currently onlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3947 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 12188 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Yes sure the ideal MD-80 replacement would be the B737-700, as stated American already operates the 800 and has a few more of those on order waiting to be delivered in one or two years from now, but as you certainly know American isn't in a very good shape financially to buy new aircraft, they are struggling to avoid having to file CH11 BK protection. However by the time American recovers from losses, Boeing will probably announce a NG737 replacement (probably the 797 that will have the same technology as the 787 and will replace both the 757 and the 737 2nd and 3rd generation) so American will likely opt for that one, unless they choose the 737-900X as 757 replacement. I think that either they go for the new airplane Boeing will announce or they order additional NG737's if delivery slots are not secured, in other worlds if they need additional aircraft and the delivery schedules for the new airplane are already filled for the short term future.

MauriceB, the oldest MD-80 has already left the fleet and is unlikely to return to service with AA, the older 767-200's as well. If you look at pictures of AA 767-200's scrapped in the Southwestern desert you will probably see a few MD-80's scrapped as well. The oldest MD-80 is over 20 years old. But yes it is true that the youngest one is only 5 years old and is the last one to come out of the McDD assembly line, so you will likely see them until the end of next decade. I'm not sure upgrading the engines to meet Stage IV requirements would be an economical solution, because eventhough the engine may be much quieter and the fuel consumption may decrease, the airframe will increase in age and will more likely face metal fatigue. Whenver an aircraft reaches a certain number of cycles, it goes to retirement. Same kind of discussion as when a thread about NW DC-9's comes up regularly.

The A300-600 has, like you said, been around since 1989, the last one being delivered in 1993, but they are not yet due to be retired. Although American Airlines and Airbus are not "friends" anymore for two reasons, one is keepeing flying the aircraft bare metal and the other is flight 587, they(AA) are likely to keep operating their 34 A300's (they had 35 minus one that crashed) for several more years, I would say until eary next decade, on the East Coast and Latin America sectors. They will continue to be based in JFK and MIA. The A300 has a lot of cargo capacity so it suits best the airline to fly them out mostly out of MIA. I would certainly like to fly on one of those again. I expect the last A300 to leave the fleet in 2015 at the latest. As discussed in other replies above, there isn't a newer aircraft at Boeing that exactly matches the A300 capacity pax and/or cargo so replacing it with 787-3/8's and additional 777's would make sense, the 787 that AA could order will replace first the 767-200's and then the oldest 767-300ER's. Those date from the 80's.
My understanding is that the baseline version of the 787 will replace the A300 and the 767-200, and the long range version of the 787 will later on replace the 767-300ER but that's not for the near future.

Ben Soriano
Brussels Belgium



Ben Soriano
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9951 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 12064 times:

As the others have said: A300-600 will be 787 and MD80s will be 737NG. This has probably been discussed a lot too, but will Boeing be able to paint the 787 in bare metal (silver) colours as the 787 will be using a composite fuselage?

A388  Smile


User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 12030 times:

The A300-600 is a difficult aircraft to replace, as there isnt a direct replacement available with the same capacity and more important cargo capacity.

The A300-600R and A310 is a sized market neglected by Airbus and Boeing.


User currently offlineTavong From Colombia, joined Jul 2001, 836 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 11910 times:

Quoting American 767 (Reply 7):
The A300-600 has, like you said, been around since 1989, the last one being delivered in 1993, but they are not yet due to be retired. Although American Airlines and Airbus are not "friends" anymore for two reasons, one is keepeing flying the aircraft bare metal and the other is flight 587,

Excuse my ignorance but can you explain me why keeping the plane flying bare metal is a problem for Airbus???

Gus
SKBO



Colombian coffee, the best...take a cup and you will see how delicious it is.
User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5700 posts, RR: 52
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 11890 times:

Quoting Tavong (Reply 10):

Excuse my ignorance but can you explain me why keeping the plane flying bare metal is a problem for Airbus???

Composite materials which is not bare metal, it had to be painted a light gray for awhile.

Quoting American 767 (Reply 7):
but as you certainly know American isn't in a very good shape financially to buy new aircraft, they are struggling to avoid having to file CH11 BK protection.

I wouldn't call it struggling. AA has nearly 2 or 3 Billion in cash reserves. FAR more then any airline has. If they wanted to, they could pay for planes right now. But they are simpling withholding at the moment.

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineJAM747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 550 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 11847 times:

What did AA replace the older 767-200 with? I just read in Airways magazine that they retired some a few years back and some were scrapped.

User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8030 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 11733 times:

In my humble opinion, I think AA may be looking at a long-life extension program for the MD8x fleet like what NW did with their DC-9 fleet.

We'll definitely see interior upgrades and possibly cockpit upgrades, and I wouldn't be surprised that AA maybe considering a re-engining program that replaces the original JT8D-217/219 engines with something like the PW6024 engine for lower fuel burn and compliance with future noise and exhaust emission regulations.

As for the A300B4-600R replacement, AA might be looking at the 787-9, but in a special lower-MTOW variant with about 5,500 to 6,000 nautical mile still-air range for use on Caribbean and some South American routes.


User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 11698 times:

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 13):
We'll definitely see interior upgrades and possibly cockpit upgrades, and I wouldn't be surprised that AA maybe considering a re-engining program that replaces the original JT8D-217/219 engines with something like the PW6024 engine for lower fuel burn and compliance with future noise and exhaust emission regulations.

If reengining of the MD-80's were to occur my money would be on the BR715. What suprises me is that a company like Aviation Partners has not come up with a winglet for the MD-80.


User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 11691 times:

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 9):
The A300-600 is a difficult aircraft to replace, as there isnt a direct replacement available with the same capacity and more important cargo capacity.

The A300-600R and A310 is a sized market neglected by Airbus and Boeing.

Isnt the 787-9 a perfect A300 replacement in term of passenger and cargo capacity? And it even exceeds the A300 in range.

Also I understand that the main reason that AA has problems with Airbus is that they feel they got a crappy deal on those A300's and that they paid far more than they should have?


User currently offlineBoeingBus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1597 posts, RR: 17
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 11641 times:

MD80 fleet will stick around for awhile.... At this point, AA is going to hold out for the new generation narrow bodies. I can AA being a launch customer for the new 737 or A320.

A300 replacement is more likely sooner rather than later. A300 is a great cargo freighter so I can see AA ditching those birds to UPS, FedEx or some Asian Cargo joint. 787 is a natural choice for AA. For one reason alone, Airbus doesn't have anything that stacks up to the 783 and 8. I think many here read too much into Flight 587. Yes, there was a major disagreement and lawsuites but at the end AA needs to get great pricing so there will always be a A vs B competition. At this point, Airbus can underprice a bit for the largest airlines in the world.

Just my 2 cents.

As far as your flight experience CV, the MD80 is a great bird. A300's interior are, how should I put it, old and almost falling apart. AA is not investing any money in the A300 fleet. You will also notice that AA and as with most legacy airlines in the states due to all the layoffs and such... the flight attendants are old hags. They look tired and don't always put the best foot forward. So don't expect great service just wrinkles and a frown. lol... You need to try JetBlue as it's an amazing experience and by far the best service. Plus, all new A320 and soon E190's.



Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6491 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 11607 times:

Quoting American 767 (Reply 7):
Yes sure the ideal MD-80 replacement would be the B737-700, as stated American already operates the 800 and has a few more of those on order waiting to be delivered in one or two years from now, but as you certainly know American isn't in a very good shape financially to buy new aircraft, they are struggling to avoid having to file CH11 BK protection.

Uh, AA is not "struggling to avoid having to file CH11."



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineLY4XELD From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 858 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 11509 times:

Quoting JAM747 (Reply 12):
What did AA replace the older 767-200 with? I just read in Airways magazine that they retired some a few years back and some were scrapped.

Those aircraft have been in ROW for a long time and, to my knowledge, weren't replaced with anything. Sadly, tail numbers 301 and 302 are now history as they were cannibalized for parts and met their fate with a airplane eater.

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 16):
I can AA being a launch customer for the new 737 or A320.

I would bet my bank account that AA will not buy an A320. Maintenance programs that are currently in place would work much better with a Boeing aircraft and at less expense than introducing a new (compared to the A300) Airbus aircraft.



That's why we're here.
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 19, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 11197 times:

Quoting CV990 (Reply 5):
But if we talk about the Airbus A300 I think AA must be thinking seriously to start to replace them.

Why? There is no replacement for them at this point, and they're cash cows.

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 11):
Composite materials which is not bare metal, it had to be painted a light gray for awhile.

That's not entirely it... it also had to do with the type of aluminum used and Airbus didn't want to warrant the plane without paint.

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 13):
As for the A300B4-600R replacement, AA might be looking at the 787-9, but in a special lower-MTOW variant with about 5,500 to 6,000 nautical mile still-air range for use on Caribbean and some South American routes.

what? Why? The 787-9 is much much bigger than the A300 and certainly much heavier. The 787-3 is the right size for this application, but is less capable and heavier.

As I've said before, I'm dubious of the value of the 787-3, but have no doubt it will be AA's choice to replace the A300 and the only plane on the market to really do it,

Quoting Luisca (Reply 15):
Isnt the 787-9 a perfect A300 replacement in term of passenger and cargo capacity?

The 787-9 is much too large and capable.

N


User currently offlineCkfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5296 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 11190 times:

I asked a friend of mine who is a pilot with AA what he thought would happen to the MD-80 fleet. He feels that there is some chance that down the road, AA will replace the oldest 40 to 60 MD-80s with 737NGs, either the -700 or the -800 series.

The rest of the fleet could undergo enough upgrades (engines, avionics, etc.) that it would last until Boeing rolls out the replacement for the 737NG, based on 787 technology.

IRelayer:

For agreeing to the Boeing/McD merger, the EU required Boeing to drop the contract language that made it the exclusive aircraft supplier for AA, CO, and DL. But AA still is obligated to buy about 625 aircraft over a 20-year period, starting in either 1998 or 1999. I think AA has taken delivery of around 200 aircraft, so AA still has 13 or 14 years to buy another 425 aircraft.


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11837 posts, RR: 62
Reply 21, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 11168 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 19):
Why? There is no replacement for them at this point, and they're cash cows.

Quite simply, they are pieces of junk.

The planes have an atrocious maintenance record, they are the most unreliable aircraft in the fleet, and they cost millions in inventories, labor, and out-of-schedule time as a result. In addition, the planes are completely non-standard with the rest of the fleet at this point and are a very small fleet to justify all the costs for. The only reasons why the A300s are still flying are -- as you say -- that they make tons of money (because of the cargo capacity only, not because of their reliability or superior economics, I assure you) and because to this point there was not a suitable replacement that AA could afford.

Well, all that is changing. AA is desperately trying to simplify its fleet and get rid of small fleet types that no longer justify the expense of their operations. The A300 is the definition of this type of fleet. A suitable replacement will soon be available, as the 787-3 in a 2-class layout will be a perfect A300 replacement in both passenger and freight capabilities, and thus I fully expect that AA will probably order them at some point in the next few years.


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 22, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 11122 times:

I don't understand why American has trouble with this fleet of planes. The A300 tops the reliability list pretty much everywhere else, just not at AA.

N


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 997 posts, RR: 51
Reply 23, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 11000 times:

>> I don't understand why American has trouble with this fleet of planes. The A300 tops the reliability list pretty much everywhere else, just not at AA.

Disregarding the "reliability" claim, the pressing factor of AA's A300 fleet is the fact that they are leased aircraft. If I remember correctly, the first set of leases are due to expire in 2009?

If AA does not extend the leases, then the dimished economics of dimished scale might hasten the departure of the remaining owned aircraft.


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12173 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10534 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 19):
The 787-3 is the right size for this application, but is less capable and heavier.

?? How do you know that? Boeing is looking at a 3500nm range for the B-787-300, but no firm decision has been made on range, or cargo carrying capability. BTW, according to Airbus, the A-300-600R has a range of 4150nm. The B-787-300 might well be the last of the current Dreamliners to certify. So Boeing has a lot of time to adjust the numbers. It will have the same fuselarge as the B-787-800, but a much shorter wing. That's pretty much all we know now.

Also, how do you know the B-787-300 is heavier than the A-300-600R?

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 19):
Why? There is no replacement for them at this point, and they're cash cows.

They may or may not be cash cows, but AA thinks of the A-300-600R as maintenance whores.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 23):
Disregarding the "reliability" claim, the pressing factor of AA's A300 fleet is the fact that they are leased aircraft. If I remember correctly, the first set of leases are due to expire in 2009?

If AA does not extend the leases, then the dimished economics of dimished scale might hasten the departure of the remaining owned aircraft.

That's the bottom line. Thanks DfwRevolution.


25 Gigneil : They're not toying with these things anymore. They've published the numbers. Because I read the Boeing documentation on it? It has an OEW of around 1
26 Aa757first : Does this hurt American when they go to the table with Boeing. Right the first time. 361 aircraft. AAndrew
27 Commavia : Not really, as Boeing knows that it is getting a great deal, too. A single customer -- in need of hundreds of new planes over the next 10-20 years --
28 777STL : Uh, well, they're not healthy either. NW had 1.7 billion in cash reserves when they entered bankruptcy, if you account for the size difference betwee
29 Cloudy : However, these numbers are not contractual commitments. They published "numbers" on the sonic cruiser as well. They have committed to a couple airlin
30 N62NA : Can't let this one go without saying something. OK, that's your opinion and you are entitled to it, but my experience has been always a positive one
31 Post contains images Kanebear : Old hags? You sure you aren't getting UA and AA mixed up? How often do you fly American? I have only ever seen ONE FA at AA who I'd consider close to
32 Whataboutme : You are a complete idiot.. AA might have some old flight attendants and they got to where they are from their hard work and all the wage concession t
33 Post contains images Aviation : Two more graceful birds fall from the sky Thanks, Aaron J Nicoli
34 B4real : I'd think 737-7/800 or whatever the next concept 737 offers would be the most logical fit for the MD-8x a/c. For the A300 I'd love to see the 767-400
35 Skymileman : As mentioned above, will the 787 be able to be made to look bare metal? That would be too bad if it could not.
36 Commavia : This is an oft-repeated question mark about AA and the 787. The 787 is almost all composite, and thus would not have the bare metal signature of AA.
37 Post contains images Jacobin777 : well..considering I'm an AA Executive Platinum member .....AA could use my hard-earned money...........and yes, most of the AA f/a's do tend to be of
38 DLKAPA : Aren't the 738 and MD-80 relatively the same in terms of capacity? If so, why would they replace the MD-80 with a lower-capacity -723, especially if t
39 Gigneil : It wouldn't be possible, no. The 787 will be black when unpainted. We just don't know if that is going to be true. The plane is 11 tons heavier and i
40 777STL : That's all the fun of flying international, seeing all the hot foreign F/As! I did two international sectors and three domestics sectors on QF a coup
41 SKA380 : Why on earth are we suddenly comparing this to the A330?
42 Whataboutme : In all reality they don't.. I want you to remember this statement when you get to be and I quote "OLDER TYPE", when you are at you desk reading your
43 BoeingBus : Should I feel safe then with a geriatic FA team? Look, I am not trying to discriminate because of age, be mean spirited or turn this into a joke. But
44 Gigneil : Um, because that's what the 787 is designed to compete against and the numbers being published about fuel savings are mostly in reference to the A330
45 Commavia : You just hit the nail on the head! That may be true in other countries, but not in the U.S. In the U.S., air travel -- for the vast majority of peopl
46 Phollingsworth : Welcome to the world of propulsion systems. Due to the noise and fuel burn requirements that ICAO, EU, Boeing, Airbus, etc. have set the engines on t
47 Post contains images AA767400 : Don't worry, You are not the only one with that crack-pipe fantasy. Check out my name. Helping passengers do what? Turn on their reading light? Or he
48 Mariner : No one has yet shown me that the consumer is "demanding" this - beyond the generalization that people always want something cheaper. It may be that t
49 Flashmeister : According to AMR's 2004 Annual Report (off their website, in the Investor Relations section), the upcoming lease expirations for MD80 and A300 are: 20
50 Milemaster : Levels of service really can/do effect buying patterns. For example this 60k-80k annual AA flyer chose to book YX instead of AA when YX was more expen
51 Commavia : Have you seen which U.S. airlines are generally not bankrupt? They're the ones with really low costs and thus are capable of offering really low fare
52 Post contains links Mariner : United has a CASM of 7.8 cents, which is not that far from Southwest. They're bankrupt. http://www.brandweek.com/bw/news/lei...play.jsp?vnu_content_i
53 Commavia : Let me manifest my opinion in another way: There are literally dozens (perhaps hundreds) of online services and websites dedicated to helping consume
54 Post contains images Mariner : I would agree. Difficult not to. I have the profoundest respect for Mr. Crandall, but, as the saying goes - he was then and this is now. We don't kno
55 Post contains links and images Anxebla : Just I can not understanding one thing: Why is AA (according to you) the only airline which think A300-600 is a "piece of junk"??    ...FedEx, for
56 Whataboutme : You should feel very safe. What are the odds of a problem occurring on the flight you are on. You have a better chance of being hit by a NYC bus in C
57 Commavia : I have no idea, but AA's A300s are simply unreliable maintenance nightmares -- not unsafe, but definitely a horror to maintain effectively. Good for
58 Gigneil : This is really something that should be looked into further. Its clearly not the A300, so it must be American. N
59 Anxebla : Ok Then, what is the source of this information or ...can you give us a reliable source? any link? I am very sorry ...but that is not enough. I need
60 Post contains images Widebodyphotog : Prepared at Gigneil's request: I did not believe that the data table reflects the true extent of the dramatic efficiency differences of the 787 so I
61 FlagshipAZ : Just putting in my 2 cents worth here, American's 34-strong fleet of A300s will all be gone by 2010. 24 of them are leased & they will not be renewed.
62 Commavia : I highly doubt that AA will get rid of all A300s by 2010. There is nothing they can replace them with in five years. IINM, the 787 delivery positions
63 FlagshipAZ : Commavia, I agree with your opinion on the 757 fleet. AA probably will hang on to its RR-powered 757s beyond 2010, but the PW-powered 757s are being r
64 Commavia : But what are they going to replace 24 airframes with -- especially when there is no other current AA plane that can handle A300 missions? AA has to k
65 JAM747 : Does any one know if AA will replace these or will they just renew or extend the leases. If they are replacing them what will the replacements be. I
66 CV990 : Hi1 I've been reading all the posts about this topic, and I find out that the AA A300 issue is quite sensitive, I see people saying really bad things
67 Tan Flyr : CV990..First of all.. Hope you do have a great trip including your visit to the Great San Joaquin Valley of California..When are you visiting? I think
68 Gigneil : Thanks for your help. Clearly, the 783 will burn significantly less fuel and will carry a significant payload on AA's typical MIA operations. Of part
69 Commavia : CV990 -- while I fully stand by all that I have said about the A300, I just want to make clear that I never said the plane was unsafe. It is simply a
70 CV990 : Hi! Well let me now get to the AA MD80 affair! I could clearly see that although AA have a huge fleet of MD80's some of them ( the first 33 ones ) are
71 Anxebla : No doubt about it!!! Maybe, but don't forget how bad is the current AA-Airbus relationship
72 Commavia : Perhaps as a formality, although I doubt even that. They may do it just to keep the European regulators quiet after they complained about the AA-Boei
73 Whataboutme : Correct me if I am wrong here, but AA has not order the 787 yet, or have they. Isn't Co and NW the only 2 US carriers that have order those? Everyone
74 Gigneil : We're prognosticating the order, whataboutme. N
75 Commavia : No, they haven't. Correct again, those are the only two U.S. airlines who have officially ordered the plane. They'll order it -- it's a matter of tim
76 Dhefty : One thing that everyone seems to be missing here is the incredible plunge in values of older (and not so old) wide-bodies, especially Airbus A300 and
77 Gigneil : Every single one of American's A300s will live on as a freighter. Every single one. N
78 Commavia : Huh??? Respectfully, that is the complete opposite of reality. American Airlines carries more passengers internationally than any other U.S. airline
79 Dhefty : Commavia, I appreciate your point of view, but AA really underserves the biggest, most profitable routes - the Pacific. And as a percentage of their t
80 Gigneil : "Only" 45 B777s is the, what 3rd largest fleet of them? 4th? N
81 Dhefty : It does seem large at first glance Gigneil, but not in relation to the total size of the fleet. Airlines that are doing well, like SIA, EK, Qantas, A
82 Ha763 : Well, this is due to the bilaterals we have with many of the countries in Asia. We only have so many frequencies allowed with many of the countries a
83 N1120A : The 736 would be a horrible replacement for the MD-80, given how heavy it is (much like the A318). Additionally, the 73G is a loss of seats as compar
84 Whataboutme : Who really cares about what the European regulators are complaining about. AA is a US Flagship carrier owned by a US company and if they want to buy
85 N1120A : American Class? What is that supposed to be? Um, AA can buy all Boeing if they want. It just happens to go against international trade regulations (w
86 CV990 : Hi! The type of comment that Whataboutme wrote is from a minority that lives in USA and think that Switzerland is close to Peru!!!! Regards
87 BoeingBus : Yes, somebody shut 'her' up. through out this thread, it all lots of drama and very little substance.
88 LACA773 : I agree with you completely, B4real!!! I think the 764 should be taken into consideration in the mean time until they decide what to do about next ge
89 TAN FLYR : Jose, with all due respect..not happening. They will someday be replaced with Seattle built airframes. After the finger pointing of the AA 587 accide
90 Commavia : It's not for lack of trying. They have been effectively locked out of most Asian markets due to restrictive bilaterals, and this is only now beginnin
91 Gigneil : Welcome to the conversation after its over. UA has no PW2042 powered 752s. They have a subfleet of 2040 powered ones, up from the standard 2037. Its
92 Phollingsworth : Not true, the WTO legality of the exclusivity deals was never tested. As part of the European approval process of Boeing's purchase of McDonnell Doug
93 N1120A : I typed a 2 when I meant a 0. I wasn't talking a small fleet of 8500nm ranged widebodies, I was talking a small fleet of 3500-4000nm ranged narrowbod
94 Gigneil : Right. I was talking about maintaining a few 787-8s for those Hawaii services when some of them could be operated by 787-3s. N
95 Whataboutme : Where in the hell do you get off making a statement like that. I know you were not making this comment about me. If so you have no respect for a A.ne
96 N1120A : Well, the one thing that there is to remember is that UA already does run 763ERs as their main widebody of choice on West Coast-Hawai'i. That is cert
97 Post contains links CV990 : Hi! Whataboutme, I get to the same place you did with your post, just that!!!! And because you wrote to BoeingBus that we should respect anyone's opin
98 777STL : I think this thread has outlived its usefulness....
99 LACA773 : I agree with you 777STL. It seems people get off the topic after a while then personalities start to colide. Enough is enough. Please be respectful o
100 QQflyboy : In case it hasn't already been said, 336 MD-80s to be exact.
101 Carpethead : Should AA continue to fly ORD-NGO on losses or establish Asian routes from DFW or ORD because it's 'exotic.' Granted outside of Chinese and Tokyo rou
102 Contrails : I was at TUL this weekend and there are a handful of AA MD-80's sitting at the AA maintenance base, names and livery removed. I presume they're either
103 Boeing767mech : Are you sure these where MD-80's and not F-100's?? We just pulled a couple of F-100's for refurb and sale out of MHV. All the TWA MD-80's that have b
104 Contrails : Boeing767mech, I thought they were MadDogs. because of the tail configuration. I make mistakes, of course, but I'm pretty confident on this.
105 Boeing767mech : I'll have to look in SABRE today. If those where MD-80's then I need to get ready for another round of layoff rumours. David
106 Ken777 : High fuel prices and too many Ch 11s are moving AA in a new and refreshing direction - increased communication with their unions. There is no doubt th
107 Boeing767mech : Contrails: I will be in Tulsa at Hanger 2 and 5 for product team meetings next week so I will confirm the mystery airplanes. David
108 Ckfred : Remember, AA signed a contract with Boeing to replace its mainline fleet, about 625 planes at the time, over 20 years. AA is 6 or 7 years into the agr
109 Commavia : IIRC, AA is not contractually obligated to buy all of the planes covered under the original agreement. AA simply secured delivery positions on around
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