Luisde8cd From Venezuela, joined Aug 2004, 2516 posts, RR: 34 Posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 10097 times:
Just saw in the midday news on TV that yesterdays (Oct 07) Santa Barbara flight CCS-MAD had to return to CCS and perform an emergency landing after losing one of its 3 engines 30min after departure to MAD. I haven't seen any online news yet, anyone has more info?
I think this will mean the end of Santa Barbara's DC10s ops. This is another incident after being grounded a couple of weeks ago because of many in flight emergencies. I hope the best to my favorite Venezuelan airline.
Legacy135 From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 1052 posts, RR: 29 Reply 2, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 10010 times:
To bad to read this words ......
I have to say that this is probably Santa Barbaras fault. They have been watched for their operation now for a while. They should now really have taken better care about the planes. The DC-10 is an old aircraft but a reliable one. If they think by buying 767's or 777's the problem would be solved, they are wrong. Those planes need maintenance as well and will end up in exactly the same shape after a short period only if they will not take care properly about.
There are other operators of the DC-10 in the world with fleets larger than them and not having those problems with the aircraft. Santa Barbara should as a first step not change the fleet, but fire the maintenance manager and his superior, having them replaced with good characters. Only by doing a serious job they can assure the future of the airline.
A388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9077 posts, RR: 13 Reply 3, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9967 times:
Legacy135,
I fully agree with you on this. Hopefully Santa Barbara Airlines will be flying its long-haul flights soon again
Luisde8cd From Venezuela, joined Aug 2004, 2516 posts, RR: 34 Reply 4, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 9661 times:
A lady pax said to the cameras that they head a loud BOOM and then saw the engine on fire through the window. Very very bad pubilicity for the airline. Shame on Santa Barbara for putting pax and crew lives at risk.
Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
Viasa we miss you!. Good times will return after Chavez is gone!
Iberiadc852 From Spain, joined May 2005, 227 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 9478 times:
Hello:
Does anyone what time did it happen?
I ask you because yesterday (Friday 7th), I heard a Santa Barbara DC-10 take off from TFN at about 3 PM Canary Islands time (4 PM clock MAD time) with an almost unbearable noise. When I first heard it I ran to my window because I wondered which plane could be that one; was even noisier than the Cygnus Air DC-8 which comes often here. When I saw it was the SB DC-10 I could hardly believe it because I always remembered the DC-10 noise as quite moderate and with a special sound, but yesterday it reminded me an old 707 one.
I don't know if the flight was departing to MAD or to CCS, but I am almost sure it had arrived from CCS. So do you think it was the same one?
And anyway, those who hear it frequently. Is normally such a noisy plane the SB DC-10?. Thank you.
variety is the spice of life; that's what made the "old times" so good
Fly727 From Mexico, joined Jul 2003, 1788 posts, RR: 23 Reply 6, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 9432 times:
Quoting Iberiadc852 (Reply 5): I don't know if the flight was departing to MAD or to CCS, but I am almost sure it had arrived from CCS. So do you think it was the same one?
There you go:
Quoting Luisde8cd (Thread starter): Just saw in the midday news on TV that yesterdays (Oct 07) Santa Barbara flight CCS-MAD had to return to CCS and perform an emergency landing after losing one of its 3 engines 30min after departure to MAD
RM.
There are no stupid questions... just stupid people!
What I would like to know if the SB DC-10 I saw yesterday October 7th taking off from TFN, could be the same that had an engine explosion flying from MAD to CCS. That is why I remarked that I didn't know if "the flight I saw" was departing to MAD or to CCS. (Obviously, if it had departed to CCS, could not be the same one, as it could not have had time to go back to MAD and to restart a flight to CCS the same day).
I hope now the question is clear.
Thank you
variety is the spice of life; that's what made the "old times" so good
Luisde8cd From Venezuela, joined Aug 2004, 2516 posts, RR: 34 Reply 9, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 9261 times:
Quoting Iberiadc852 (Reply 8):
What I would like to know if the SB DC-10 I saw yesterday October 7th taking off from TFN, could be the same that had an engine explosion flying from MAD to CCS. That is why I remarked that I didn't know if "the flight I saw" was departing to MAD or to CCS. (Obviously, if it had departed to CCS, could not be the same one, as it could not have had time to go back to MAD and to restart a flight to CCS the same day).
It departed from CCS around 7-8PM local time. It was bound to MAD. So yes, maybe this was the same DC10. I think TFN-CCS flight time is around 6 hours, so if it departed TFN at 11AM local CCS time, it landed in CCS at 5PM in time for a 7-9PM departure back to Europe. Interesting to read your post regarding the higher than usual noise of the DC10 engines. Maybe it has something to do with the incident.
Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
Viasa we miss you!. Good times will return after Chavez is gone!
Chiguire From Venezuela, joined Sep 2004, 2003 posts, RR: 19 Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 9084 times:
Quoting Legacy135 (Reply 2): Santa Barbara should as a first step not change the fleet, but fire the maintenance manager and his superior, having them replaced with good characters. Only by doing a serious job they can assure the future of the airline.
The problem is not only the maintanance management, but maybe also the currency regulations in Venezuela. The airlines do not get enough US$ in order to keep their fleet well maintained. So you are right, the same thing will happen with their 767.
We already have one airline (LAI) that had to stop operations with their two ATRs due to lack of money for spareparts.
Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 9): Interesting to read your post regarding the higher than usual noise of the DC10 engines. Maybe it has something to do with the incident.
My experience is, that starting aircraft sound very different depending on the winds and other circumstances of weather.
But if something was wrong with the engines in TFN already, then they should not only fire the maintanance manager, but also the cockpit crew of that flight for flying the aircraft.
The government is spending so much money in scilly and senseless projects (Conviasa beeing one of them) instead of taking care about the essentials.
Air traffic will not improve by regulating every sh**, from fares to customer rights etc.
Legacy135 From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 1052 posts, RR: 29 Reply 11, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 9042 times:
Quoting Chiguire (Reply 10): The problem is not only the maintenance management, but maybe also the currency regulations in Venezuela. The airlines do not get enough US$ in order to keep their fleet well maintained. So you are right, the same thing will happen with their 767.
We already have one airline (LAI) that had to stop operations with their two ATRs due to lack of money for spareparts.
I absolutely agree with you that it can be very difficult to maintain a fleet in good technical conditions if the own currency is weak, so everything very expensive.
Still, this is no excuse and the ones responsible for the maintenance of the planes are the ones finally responsible if they do not comply with international standards. I personally do not think that they do not correspond with international standards, as this would be very silly. They would risk to loose traffic rights if it comes to inspections. I rather think that they do the works to a point they "just" comply. There are several ways to do maintenance. There are things if you know the plane and it's systems you may say "leave it as it is..." as their will be no risk. This is highly dependable from the experience of the person taking care. But an aircraft works as your body. If you have something wrong with a tooth and you won't go to the dentist, nothing will happen, as you will eat on the other side in your mouth. In the beginning...... but after a while you will have problems on the other side as well, because of much higher use, plus an asymmetric you give to the bones and all that. The final problem will be much higher and cost you several times more to bring in order apart from all the pain you will suffer from. So they are highly advised to do a complete overhaul and bring the planes into a good shape, then they can be quite and maintenancecosts will be in the normal range.
They should have a special view on their international services. Here they can generate revenues in Dollars and Euros, money they can use to buy spareparts and do the maintenance. Exactly here they need those DC-10's.
So as hard as it may be to get the money together to have those planes in good shape, there is no way that leads around. I hope the best for them and would love them to see them back with those lovely DC-10's.
Chiguire From Venezuela, joined Sep 2004, 2003 posts, RR: 19 Reply 12, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 9012 times:
Quoting Legacy135 (Reply 11): own currency is weak, so everything very expensive.
The point is not that the Bolivar is "weak". It's just that - if you want to change them into US$ or another currency - you have to apply for that at CADIVI. They authorize, you pay them in Bs and get US$ or whatever you applied for.
Here a link is Spanish in case you understand a bit: http://www.el-nacional.com/Articulos...rticulo.asp?Id=68116&IdSeccion=178
If you don't get approved US$ you just simply have NO money at all to pay for spareparts, fuel etc. No one abroad will accept Bolivares for spareparts - weak or not. It's just not convertible.
And I agree, S3 has a certain income in foreign currency by BSP payments abroad, in the US, Spain etc. But this money is needed for the payment of offices, salaries and - most of all - FUEL.
This is no excuse for bad maintenance, just one of the reasons.
I am much more concerned about the pilots. If they know that those aircraft are in a bad shape - and they are - why do they risk their and the passengers lives ?
And finally: I hope they do not only cancel the flights to Europe yesterday, but all of them until they get other aircraft. Because otherwise, if one of these DC10 lands in Spain again, they will be the first airline on a Spanish blacklist.
IDAWA From Italy, joined Aug 2004, 301 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 8084 times:
Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 4): Shame on Santa Barbara for putting pax and crew lives at risk.
I don't think that an engine fire well into the flight (the topic says 30 minutes after departure) may have jeopardized the safety of the aircraft. You might have had a point had the failure happened at V1.
BAViscount From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2338 posts, RR: 4 Reply 14, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 7940 times:
I was on a U2 flight AMS-LGW on Thursday evening (October 6th) and I noticed that there was a Santa Barbara DC10 over by the maintenance hangars at LGW. It stood out to me beacuse it was the first time I'd ever seen one of their aircraft - unfortunately I was too far away to get the reg. Does anyone know what it was doing there (do Santa Barbara even fly to LGW?)? Could it have been the same aircraft that was involved in this incident the following day?
Ladies & gentlemen this is Captain Tobias Wilcock welcoming you aboard Coconut Airways flight 372 to Bridgetown Barb
JBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4459 posts, RR: 22 Reply 15, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 7746 times:
Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 4): A lady pax said to the cameras that they head a loud BOOM and then saw the engine on fire through the window. Very very bad pubilicity for the airline. Shame on Santa Barbara for putting pax and crew lives at risk.
"Blew up"......hmmm. I don't think so. Sounds like a compressor stall to me (probably saw fire out the tailpipe, not from the engine itself, and they make one or more several loud booms). It's a relatively common occurrence (as engine anomalies go). If that's the case, no big deal, although I'd be curious to know the reason behind it.
Luisde8cd From Venezuela, joined Aug 2004, 2516 posts, RR: 34 Reply 18, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6854 times:
Quoting BAViscount (Reply 14): I was on a U2 flight AMS-LGW on Thursday evening (October 6th) and I noticed that there was a Santa Barbara DC10 over by the maintenance hangars at LGW. It stood out to me beacuse it was the first time I'd ever seen one of their aircraft - unfortunately I was too far away to get the reg. Does anyone know what it was doing there (do Santa Barbara even fly to LGW?)? Could it have been the same aircraft that was involved in this incident the following day?
As it was previously mentioned that DC10 has been in LGW for almost a month now undergoing maintenance. The ship at LGW is YV-1040. The ship that had the emergency is YV-1052C.
Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
Viasa we miss you!. Good times will return after Chavez is gone!
What it says is that flights to Europe have been cancelled until the "new" B767s arrive. They expect the suspension of flights to last 2 weeks.
As I thought... this is the end of pax service for the DC10 in Venezuela. The DC10 was such a nice ship flying over the venezuelan skies since the 70s. Viasa was the first one to operate it when it bought some of them brand new from Douglas back in the 70s. Then Avensa operated the ones that Santa Barbara currently has.
Avianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5857 posts, RR: 40 Reply 20, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6363 times:
Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 18): As it was previously mentioned that DC10 has been in LGW for almost a month now undergoing maintenance.
any information why so long? 1 month is really long or are they doeing a D-Check?
Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 19): What it says is that flights to Europe have been cancelled until the "new" B767s arrive. They expect the suspension of flights to last 2 weeks.
any information what will happend to the bocked passengers? are all rebooked to AirEuropa and Iberia?
Wow this is really bad puplicity for SantaBarabara... I hope this will not the end of this airline.
777gk From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1641 posts, RR: 20 Reply 21, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6211 times:
Over the years with Continental, and especially late in the 1990s, we had multiple uncontained failures with the CF6-50 on our DC-10s. I'm not going to say they are unreliable, but these issues are certainly not foreign with that engine, even on the most well-maintained examples.
Luisde8cd From Venezuela, joined Aug 2004, 2516 posts, RR: 34 Reply 22, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6199 times:
Quoting 777gk (Reply 21): Over the years with Continental, and especially late in the 1990s, we had multiple uncontained failures with the CF6-50 on our DC-10s. I'm not going to say they are unreliable, but these issues are certainly not foreign with that engine, even on the most well-maintained examples.
I think YV-1052C is a former Continental plane, or is it YV-1040C?
Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
[Edited 2005-10-09 17:36:08]
Viasa we miss you!. Good times will return after Chavez is gone!
Legacy135 From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 1052 posts, RR: 29 Reply 23, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6110 times:
Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 19): What it says is that flights to Europe have been cancelled until the "new" B767s arrive. They expect the suspension of flights to last 2 weeks.
I really don't know how they want to introduce a new type within 2 weeks only. I adquiered a new type more than once and had this challenging job more than once to do. Sure, they have already the 757 which shares commonality in several aspects with the 767 but it's still another type.
First of all they need to make contracts, have them run trough their legal department and the one of the lessor. This will last several weeks. In parallel they need to deal out the clue with the banks what is not that fast either.
Then they need to accept that bird, bring it to the country and register it. They also need to settle everything with customs and taxes on that.
Operations needs to prepare all the documentation and manuals for. They need to introduce that to all stations they want to fly with. They need to have the ground equippement and train all the staff. Finally they need to train the flight attendants and the pilots. The pilots will need to get a route intro as it's a new type. They also will need to be signed off. Finally Santa Barbara was not an ETOPS operator yet, so......???? Even not necessary to mention that a pilots training for a 767 may last something between 4 and 5 weeks.
I have some huge question marks here and I'd rather expect them to bring the DC-10 back. Maybe in two weeks the one standing in LGW will be ready to fly.
The only way I could imagine them to run the flights by a 767 is if they go with a wet lease, for example with Air Atlanta Iceland. Those Nordic guys are pretty good and I could imagine that they get it in 2 weeks.
There is multiple ways in which the passengers will reach CCS.
They could be on Avianca, Iberia, American (via MIA), Continental (via EWR), Alitalia (via MXP), Delta (via ATL), Air France (via CDG) the list goes on and on.
Most likely the passengers are on Iberia, Air Europa, or Avianca to CCS.
When the second DC-10 comes out of maintenance in LGW will it join the Santa Barbara fleet along with the B767-300 and B757-200 or will it no longer fly for them? (Is the one at LGW YV-1052C or YV1040C?)
I think this is a real shame, I always enjoyed seeing the early morning DC-10 arrival from CCS and then seeing it sit on the tarmac for a while until its beautiful and nosiey afternoon departure!
26 USADreamliner: I feel the same way. Hope to see very soon the 763 and 772 and a new name! Sorry, but Santa Barbara Airline sounds like the name of a company with on
27 Magyarorszag: Anybody Knows Who Used To Own Santa Barbara DC-10 (by BA747 Sep 19 2005 in Civil Aviation)
28 AlitaliaMD11: Aren't both of Santa Barbara's DC-10s former Avensa planes?
29 B757200: It's YV-1040C, CN 47867. It was operated by Alitalia, Eastern, Continental and Avensa.
30 MD90fan: Well before I heard they were acquiring 76S , I thought that they could have picked up a batch of MD-11's from Thai. Anyways I hope the 76S works out
31 Varghel: Hi, this is what Santa Barbara's Site declares (http://www.santabarbaraairlines.com/Noticias.asp): Santa Barbara announces that it has decided to oper
32 Chiguire: The 757 are operated by Primaris. So no experience on those kind of aircraft for S3 side at all. This is correct and the biggest issue for such a rou
33 797: This is a WOW thread for me! I knew about S3 DC-10s having problems, but an engine exploding is not a problem any more... it's a disaster. Thanks God
34 Anxebla: Luis: I'm very sorry, but your "favourite" airline is a real danger which unfortunately is flying. Aviación Civil (Spanish Aviation Authority) is se
35 Chiguire: Do you have any source for that or is it just a personal wish in order to have one competitor less for IB ? You have no clue about the background of
36 Anxebla: No comment. WHAT???? Please, try it with this thread title: >Santa Barbara DC10 Engine "explodes" In Flight< Is not more than enought?? If not, is it
37 Magyarorszag: Here's a pic of YV-1040C at LGW. http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=398870 Regards, M
38 797: Well, Luis is right. I just went to Santa Barbara's site and in its 'News' area they published this: http://www.santabarbaraairlines.com/noticias.asp
39 Ghost77: If S3 is having trouble is their fault!!! Lack of mx.. probably... Dc10 is still a safe plane to ride on!! Proof is NW and FDX flying their Dc10s with
40 PRAirbus: So much talk about S3s airplanes' condition...I wonder how they look inside. Anyone has any S3 DC10s interior pictures? In what condition are they ins
41 Luisde8cd: From what I've heard, meal carts are ex-Viasa, ex-Varig and ex-avensa. Life vests are Continental's. I dont know more details.... Saludos desde Carac
42 Jetdeltamsy: Way way way too soon to speculate on such an issue. Santa Barbara has major problems, but the engine failure could have been from an infinite number
43 Iberiadc852: Sorry, but I had to be away and couldn't follow the thread. I had misread the origin of the flight, but anyway, considering CCS local time, I think t
44 Chiguire: OK, so no source..... Thank you for that advice. I will do my best. But maybe you try as well. This would prevent you from posting silly statements w
45 Dougloid: Chiguire, is the current political situation between the US and Venezuela contributing to this situation or does it apply across the board?
46 Luisde8cd: Santa Barbara's DC-10s are leased from Pegasus Aviation. According to their website they offer B767-300ERs for lease. They also offer: -MD11 -B744 -B7
47 Chiguire: Thanks for the info. It might not be a problem from the point of availability but: What can I say...this would be a dream come true. Finally a Venezu
48 Orion737: Won the 763 be a drop in capacity compared to the larger DC10?
49 Chiguire: Not a lot as the DC10 has a very good pitch in coach and three classes. And I quess they will leave away first in the 763 which would result in maybe
50 Orion737: Yes the 763 will be much tighter for baggage and cargo. Also if F is being done away with on the 763 that will be a further drop in revenue. The fusel
51 AlitaliaMD11: I guess the MD-11 is out of the question? [Edited 2005-10-10 17:17:32]
52 797: Well, my cousin flew this aircraft recently and he told me that it looked ridiculous! They have like three types of seats in coach (AVENSA, CONTINENT
54 Rmcf: Some weeks ago the TV showed how some Spanish aviation inspectors forbid an Santa Barbara planes in MAD to fly because of some serious problems in the
55 Anxebla: Source: TVE, Spanish TV. Can you watching in Venezuela "Informe Semanal"??
56 Luisde8cd: I dont think he can, because he doesnt live here. Saludos desde Caracas Luis
57 Chiguire: So actually I think I can via Astra Satellite...but now I am afraid the coverage is over. Or is there a weekly summary to come ? Pls. let me know !!
58 Bennett123: Any news on what Pegasus will do with the DC10's.
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