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AA Ending STL-EVV, STL-BMI, STL-CMI  
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32725 posts, RR: 72
Posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4632 times:

AmericanConnection will be ending non-stop service from St. Louis to three regional destinations this fall. Service to Evansville, Indiana (2x J31) will end on 29 October 2005. Service to Champaign, Illinois (2x J41) will end on 31 October 2005. Service to Bloomington-Normal, Illinois (2x J41) will end on 1 December 2005. And please don't go screaming "that's it, the AA STL hub is now really dead!". It isn't. Dropping three Midwest markets isn't the end of the world. All three will retain American Eagle service to O'Hare, while Champaign and Evansville also feature American Eagle service to Dallas.


a.
60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBHMNONREV From Australia, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 1371 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4599 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
And please don't go screaming "that's it, the AA STL hub is now really dead!".

lol...I'm surprised these were not cut sooner. I would figure SGF and maybe a few others will be next.

Thanks for the update Mark..


User currently offlineN908AW From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 926 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4545 times:

Doesn't SPI have J41 service too?


'Cause you're on ATA again, and on ATA, you're on vacation!
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2920 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4541 times:

Any idea what they will do with the J31/J41's? Any thoughts of sending those props elsewhere?

User currently offlineFLAIRPORT From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4537 times:

Does AA still have service to Owensboro from STL?

User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4263 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4508 times:

I always wondered. STL is not as busy or as delay proned an airport as ORD. Why not scale back ORD a bit to help with the traffic and build up STL. Seems to me that would help keep flights ontime, make people happy which brings business to AA, and therefore increases their revenue.

User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5692 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4507 times:

Quoting FLAIRPORT (Reply 4):
Does AA still have service to Owensboro from STL?

Yes.

From: St Louis MO US To: Owensboro KY US
NON-STOP
American 5257
From:STL To:OWB
12:37PM 1:40 PM
Trm:M J31 Trm:

Ownr:AA CNX REGIO


Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineBHMNONREV From Australia, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 1371 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4505 times:

Quoting FLAIRPORT (Reply 4):
Does AA still have service to Owensboro from STL?

Yes, currently 2 X J31 per day. I believe this is an EAS route, so it should be OK for a while...

Some more possible cuts I could see in the near future:

SGF
PIA
IND

I think SPI is safe for now, since there is no other AA service available. Anyone else have any thoughts on the subject?

Could this be Boeing Nut's big STL news he was referring to earlier??


User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4503 times:

Aren't all of those props at-risk flights?


Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineTexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4275 posts, RR: 52
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4460 times:

I'm kinda surprised about the BMI cut, only because at least back when TWA operated it, State Farm gave them what basically amounted to a subsidy so that the route was always profitable. And it was almost impossible to find any seats on the BMI-STL flights on Thurs, Fri, Sun, and Mon; in addition, the Tues and Wed flights had solid bookings for middle of the week flights(remember, this is a couple years ago so my info is likely out of date). Yes, I understand LF is not indicative of profit, but as stated before, State Farm paid a bundle to have the flights. Did AA lose the contract or did they receive a contract to go through ORD?

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offlinePlanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3527 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4420 times:

perhaps State Farm no longer needs to go to St. Louis?


Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlineStl1326 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 496 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 4347 times:

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 7):
Could this be Boeing Nut's big STL news he was referring to earlier??

I don't think so. He said something about it being an important day for St. Louis. I don't think this is important for STL. Hey MAH, do any other regional routes get increases from these routes being dropped or is everything standing the same, except these minor changes.


User currently offlineLambertMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2073 posts, RR: 36
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 4328 times:

Doesn't surprise me to see these cuts, all of them have seen periodical frequency losses. Just more trimming of the fat, if you ask me. I could really care less if there are any extra prop flights added, a J31 here and there doesn't amount to a pile of poop. OTOH, hopefully it doesn't have much affect on feeding the other flights in and out of St. Louis.

User currently offlineCIDflyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2285 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4273 times:

any chance of seeing some current J41 routes upgraded to jet service like MSN recently? Out of curiosity I checked some of the CID-STL flights and most of them look full, maybe one of them could be replaced by an ERJ?

User currently offlineJetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2987 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4240 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
please don't go screaming "that's it, the AA STL hub is now really dead!". It isn't.

Look for more of the same from AA. This trend to continue.

All of you out there who think the STL mini-hub will continue to grow are dreaming. AA will continue pulling down STL. DEC-STL will probably go by the end of the year as AAConx isn't able to attract enough customers to keep their EAS contracts with the government.



Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4234 times:

Ummm...children, those markets dropped are all turboprops, which are operated by Trans States and RegionsAir at-risk. American has no control over whether those flights are kept or not. The only flights American has control over are the Trans States ERJ-145's and the Chautauqua ERJ-140's.


Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineLambertMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2073 posts, RR: 36
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4167 times:

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 14):
Look for more of the same from AA. This trend to continue.

All of you out there who think the STL mini-hub will continue to grow are dreaming. AA will continue pulling down STL. DEC-STL will probably go by the end of the year as AAConx isn't able to attract enough customers to keep their EAS contracts with the government.

In addition to SHU's valid point, I'm not sure why you are insistent on American significantly shrinking St. Louis. All AA execs have said that it does very well for them, and even Arpey said that it was a "surprising success story". Also, as I've said before if St. Louis was doing poorly it would have been a 5 city station by now.


User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9336 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4145 times:

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 14):
Look for more of the same from AA. This trend to continue.

thank you!

Champaign & Bloomington....say hello Delta Air Lines and good bye to American Connection.

Decatur might stay around for a little bit, but I'd add Moline to the list along with Springfield - Branson.

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 16):
In addition to SHU's valid point, I'm not sure why you are insistent on American significantly shrinking St. Louis. All AA execs have said that it does very well for them, and even Arpey said that it was a "surprising success story". Also, as I've said before if St. Louis was doing poorly it would have been a 5 city station by now.

get a new line, this is tired and contracts your reply #12.

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
Dropping three Midwest markets isn't the end of the world.

absolutely. what's three, compared to say...28. what is that now...a total of 31/32 markets AA has dropped entirely from STL since taking over service?

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
All three will retain American Eagle service to O'Hare, while Champaign and Evansville also feature American Eagle service to Dallas.

and Bloomington - Normal to Dallas - Ft. Worth is how far away?

Quoting Apodino (Reply 5):
I always wondered. STL is not as busy or as delay proned an airport as ORD. Why not scale back ORD a bit to help with the traffic and build up STL. Seems to me that would help keep flights ontime, make people happy which brings business to AA, and therefore increases their revenue.

STL facilities, again, are not hub friendly in today's more modern cost conscious environment



Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
User currently offlineLambertMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2073 posts, RR: 36
Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4132 times:

Quoting STLGph (Reply 17):
get a new line, this is tired and contracts your reply #12.

Cutting 3 j31 routes isn't significantly shrinking. Its a loss of like a 100 seats a day or something. If they start cutting alot of mainline flying or more important regional routes like ATL or EWR, then I'd consider it relevant to their overall operation.


User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4121 times:

This is much bigger news for the cities that lost service, and more indicative of the health of commercial aviation within those cities, than it is indicative of the health of STL.

STL has been transformed to an O&D hub, with some connection oppourtunities.

These cities probably had little or no O&D value.



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9336 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4109 times:

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 19):
This is much bigger news for the cities that lost service, and more indicative of the health of commercial aviation within those cities, than it is indicative of the health of STL.

as I said, Bloomington and Champaign have seen Delta come onto the market. I believe Evansville has seen a steady increase in flight services.

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 18):
Cutting 3 j31 routes isn't significantly shrinking. Its a loss of like a 100 seats a day or something. If they start cutting alot of mainline flying or more important regional routes like ATL or EWR, then I'd consider it relevant to their overall operation.

sure. and you go "ga ga" and say things like "take that DFW, MIA, and ORD!" when one regional jet is added to Sarasota.

make up your mind.



Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
User currently offlineJohnboy From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 2585 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4089 times:

I had always pictured Owensboro as being well within the Evansville market reach.

Had no idea they had their own service.


User currently offlineCIDflyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2285 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4031 times:

Quoting STLGph (Reply 17):
Decatur might stay around for a little bit, but I'd add Moline to the list along with Springfield - Branson.

Moline has not had non-stop service to STL since the Nov. 2003 reduction.


User currently offlineBHMNONREV From Australia, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 1371 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3956 times:

Quoting STLGph (Reply 17):
STL facilities, again, are not hub friendly in today's more modern cost conscious environment

As opposed to those wonderful hub-friendly facilities located in DFW and ORD...  sarcastic 


User currently offlineMrSTL From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 468 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3939 times:

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 23):
As opposed to those wonderful hub-friendly facilities located in DFW and ORD...

You raise a good point-- how much are landing fees and other associated fees at ORD and DFW vs STL? How much will ORD go up with their new runway construction? How much does it cost the airlines to get into sequence for landing at ORD on a yearly basis-- on my last flight to Chicago we flew over the City and went way out over Lake Michigan -- when we finally made our turn it took us 5-7 minutes before landing-- in the world of increased fuel costs this has to raise the price tag of operations. We sat on the runway waiting for take off fifteen to twenty minutes after an hour delay sitting on the tarmac because of a thunderstorm. While I understand O/D numbers as far as a connecting hub I think ORD sucks and avoid it like the plague. I do not see the logic of wanting to cram more people into an environment that is already maxed out not to mention the real winners in the runway expansion at ORD will be the LCC's with increased frequencies-- it makes me laugh- if I was UA and AA I would probably reconsider the price tag and ramnifications of more capacity. Now as far as an international gateway I completely understand but if I am going from DCA to LA I would rather go through STL --or maybe I am a little biased  Wink


25 CIDflyer : I agree with you, STL is a nice place to connect through vs. ORD. I gave up on ORD years ago, too many delays. With the remodeling and new concession
26 Flyibaby : This is off topic I know, but something I have nonetheless wondered about for while. Some of you may remember Air Illinois. They provided service with
27 LambertMan : It was a joke. I said St. Louis had exacted sweet revenge. Does it sound like I'm being serious? Yeah....I really think that a once daily flight to S
28 STLGph : yes. the traveling public wants to pay less = an airline having a more efficient operation all around to keep costs down. yes, it is correct. the STL
29 Post contains links CIDFlyer : yes that is a good one, here is the article from 2003 saying non stop flights to the Quad Cities/Moline were being cut http://www.usatoday.com/travel
30 STLGph : and i applaud your efforts of having nothing else to do. you send me an old copy of the QS 9000 Third Edition and i'll send you a copy of this page.
31 BHMNONREV : Ah yes, how could we forget those marvels of operational efficiency, DFW and ORD... I will agree with the operational disaster at STL in regard to th
32 STLGph : we've been there, done this discussion already. do we really have to go through it again? it's gonna have to wait because I have to socialize this ev
33 MaverickM11 : On a related note, what's with Viva Air (that somewhat shady penny stock company with Caribbean assets that has press releases about releasing a press
34 MD90fan : A little off the topic, but what cities has AA/AE ended service to from STL and when?? Any coming back??
35 BHMNONREV : Too many to list, but on 11/01/03 AA discontinued to, among others, SJC, PDX, YVR, ANC, ABQ, MCI, OMA, LNK... Will they be back? Probably not, but rum
36 CIDflyer : well thanks for that! Just trying to show that you that STL has not had MLI flights with proof to back it up, and yet I get a smart aleck remark. Nic
37 BHMNONREV : Smart aleck remarks are this young man's M.O., he tends to lay the condescension on pretty thick at times. My guess is he did a project in college, c
38 Atrude777 : RegionsAir operates as American Connection, not Eagle. These towns are no podunk. They are mostly EAS cities. Alex
39 Post contains links BHMNONREV : Yep, and the STL-EVV cuts will affect Regions, since they fly 2 X J31 per day on the route. Here is the Viva link from another thread: http://biz.yah
40 Post contains links MaverickM11 : Eagle...Connection...same product, different name and delivery...and if they are EAS cities, they are podunk, by definition. But that's beside the po
41 Atrude777 : Sadly no, I havent been flying out of the C concourse in awhile, I flew Northwest Airlines as some saw, but I plan on flying to BWI on SWA in early N
42 MaverickM11 : Yes I know...can we answer the question about Regions Air instead please?
43 BHMNONREV : Maybe doing some work for AA in the Caribbean under the AX banner. Some island hopping, perhaps.. "We are excited about assisting Viva in bringing tu
44 Jetdeltamsy : Airline execs are never quick to publically state that a city or hub is performing poorly. And since AA doesn't break out each hub's profitability, N
45 MaverickM11 : I think the respective airlines want to get rid of MEM, STL, CVG, and CLE like a bad habit.
46 STLGph : and one of my print outs of the AA STL schedule in 2004 had Moline listed. if it was a mistake, then it was a mistake. big frickin' deal. I did more
47 Joeman : Then why don't they?
48 MAH4546 : American Airlines flew St. Louis-Moline non-stops right after the TWA takeover. This route was even flown with mainline until early 2003. It was disco
49 MEMbase : NW would only want to get rid of MEM if it was losing money faster than the rest of the airline, OR if they could move the hub somewhere else and mak
50 MrSTL : I know I will be beat up for saying this, but, it seems AA keeps just enough service around to prevent another carrier from coming in and seriously co
51 FlyBoy84 : Sure they have delays at those places, but you're talking about airports that are still bringing in far more flights than STL will ever have the capa
52 Post contains images MaverickM11 : Just the hemorrhaging cash
53 Ouboy79 : Not related to STL, but still American in nature. TOL-DFW will be suspended through January 10th due to low traffic volumes this time of year. They wi
54 Flymli : AA discontinued MLI-STL in 2003 but still has non-stop to ORD and DFW. At the time 11,000 enplaned pax went to STL and beyond which was about a 37% ma
55 BHMNONREV : Actually they should be able to do simultaneous approaches, leaving 12R/30L for takeoffs. But Lambert numbers will never reach the point where this w
56 Commavia : I agree. I think a smart strategy for AA to follow would be to invest perhaps $50-60M over the next 5-10 years in renovating the C concourse, includi
57 BHMNONREV : I believe a some of this work has already started. Several new vendors have set up shop in "C", and all indications are they are doing quite well. It
58 STLGph : Icahn cannot be blamed solely for the bankruptcy of TWA. $300 million does not make a profit when other parts of the system are bleeding out money...
59 Oneworldman : Hey hold on, I flew on American Eagle sometime earlier in the spring, between Moline and St. Louis. It was a repositioning flight put into revenue ser
60 KBMIFlyer : Sorry guys, a little late to the discussion. Traveling this week and away from the net. A really disappointing development for BMI. We have now lost 5
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