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BA To Rebrand MAN/LGW Services  
User currently offlineOly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6737 posts, RR: 11
Posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 8140 times:

According to this..........

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2095-1817111,00.html

Last paragraph.....

Walsh will reveal within weeks plans to shake up BA’s regional operations. Operations from Manchester and Gatwick are likely to be rebranded. The airline will unveil its new two-year business plan early next year, when it is likely to give some guidance about its plans to buy new aircraft, although no orders are likely to be placed until early in 2007.

-#-#-#-#-#-#-#


So what's the plan going to be does anyone think? What can MAN operations be rebranded as? Besides BEA with LHR/LGW being BOAC?


BA Baby as a LCC for the regions?


wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWhiteHatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 8023 times:

I suppose they could resurrect the Cityflyer/Citiexpress kind of branding. Somehow I can't see them going back to the 732 days of painting Manchester or Birmingham on aircraft, as that was just a waste of paint.

Another option is BA Regional in the way that BD subtitle some aircraft.

It'll be interesting to see just what Walsh proposes. Even more interesting will be any changes to services done with EI on the UK-DUB routes


User currently offline7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 35
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 8011 times:

This is quite old news. We think its being rebranded as BA Red or something equally as stupid.

7LBAC111



Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
User currently offlineFLYtoEGCC From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 947 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 7988 times:

But what's the point? What's wrong with just "British Airways" as a strong brand name that everybody knows? I don't see the point of the rebranding. If it's more customers they're after, then they need to advertise and market their services more aggressively - not just repaint their aircraft with a daft name. "BA Red"? Never heard anything so stupid.


Come fly with me, let's fly, let's fly away...
User currently offline7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 35
Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 7964 times:

Quoting FLYtoEGCC (Reply 3):
BA Red"? Never heard anything so stupid.

No. Not even UniTED or MyTravelLite? Big grin



Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 7955 times:

Quoting FLYtoEGCC (Reply 3):
But what's the point? What's wrong with just "British Airways" as a strong brand name that everybody knows? I don't see the point of the rebranding. If it's more customers they're after, then they need to advertise and market their services more aggressively - not just repaint their aircraft with a daft name. "BA Red"? Never heard anything so stupid.

Something i agree with 100%. anything less than using the full BA name will dilute the brand - it make the average consumer think it might be something inferior to the main BA product - regardless of whether it actually might be an inferior product if they cut back service levels.

It will be a bit of a reversal from the BA policy up to now of trying to brand everything BA, franchise or otherwise - GB Airways, BMed, Comair, etc, etc.



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2501 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 7952 times:

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 2):
We think its being rebranded as BA Red or something equally as stupid.

I hope it will not be some kind of LCC without catering and normal service...



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineHals From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 7927 times:

Leave it as it is, I say...makes the smaller DH8-3's-RJ's-ERJ's feel important wearing BA full colours.  

[Edited 2005-10-10 14:59:17]

[Edited 2005-10-10 14:59:51]

User currently offlineOly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6737 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 7925 times:

BA Red?

Are they after Man Utd fans or something?



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlineFLYtoEGCC From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 947 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 7891 times:

Quoting Cornish (Reply 5):
Something i agree with 100%. anything less than using the full BA name will dilute the brand - it make the average consumer think it might be something inferior to the main BA product - regardless of whether it actually might be an inferior product if they cut back service levels.

All I suspect it will do, in many people's eyes, is reinforce the belief that all BA is interested in is becoming "Heathrow Airways". It's going to be an extremely strange situation - your country's traditional "national carrier" only visible at one main airport. Imagine if United only flew from Atlanta and everywhere else was served by Ted? And also, what about operations from, say, Birmingham and Newcastle?

I'm just extremely confused as to what they're trying to do. We might well be about to see another LCC experiment with BA Red, if that's what it's to be called - the powers that be might see that as the only way of competing with the increasing number of LCC flights from the North, and trying to do this with their mainline product would simply not fit into their business model.

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 4):
No. Not even UniTED or MyTravelLite?

No - not even that. This has to be the worst.



Come fly with me, let's fly, let's fly away...
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 7882 times:

It will be single class & therefor can't be BA?

User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24936 posts, RR: 56
Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 7844 times:

Quoting Oly720man (Reply 8):
BA Red?

Are they after Man Utd fans or something?

Naw, they say they are rebranding MAN services.
As you know, there is no Man Utd fans in Manchester  Wink  duck 



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineOly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6737 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 7811 times:

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 11):
As you know, there is no Man Utd fans in Manchester

They will want to fly _to_ MAN though. Will the in flight meal be prawn sandwiches?



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlineRunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2194 posts, RR: 35
Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 7792 times:

More appropriate names include:

BA Stard
BewAre
Go (oops)
BA kini
BryAnair

Who else can come up with good names for a rebranded carrier?

[Edited 2005-10-10 15:30:33]

User currently offlineMonkeyboi From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 457 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7724 times:

I read in 'BA Cabin Crew News' yesterday that they are beginning a trial at LGW short-haul (on some routes only) where they will actively sell upgrades at the airports and monitor the uptake.

The offer is being set up to understand what demand their is from EuroTraveller (econ) passengers to upgrade at the airport and also the best way to deliver this product. The first trial to see whether Club Europe really is worth keeping on LGW short-haul flights.

I am in support of rebranding of LGW/MAN operations. Many passengers already point of the differences, especially in Club. Have a look at passenger gripe sites, common complaints have phrases like 'how can they call this British Airways? It was nothing like my flight from Heathrow X amount of months ago'.

On the embraer and 146 fleet (MAN) there is no difference between Club/EuroTraveller seats and there are also differences (negative ones) with the in-flight service. Yet they are still marketed as 'BA Club Europe' and 'BA EuroTraveller'. I think this is un-fair to the customer. If customers know they aren't flying the 'real' BA Club Europe they will have more of an idea of what to expect.

LHR is where BA makes it's money. It focuses on business travellers. LGW and MAN are still important for BA for feed and market presence, but the market tends to be more aimed at the leisure instead of business traveller, and the cost base of the airline has to reflect this.

Rod Eddington made it clear several months ago: Each divsion within BA (LHR LH, LHR SH, MAN/BHX Citiexpress, LGW LH, LGW SH) has to make it's own contribution to the business and not be a drain on other parts of the airline. LGW and MAN included.

LGW S/H and MAN/BHX city express have been seen as 'low cost' operations within BA for years anyway. Their crews work to different terms and conditions that BA Mainline, aircraft are turned around quicker and short-haul aircraft also used on night flights from LGW.

Maybe now it's the customers time to see them as low cost operator as well?


User currently offlineMhodgson From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2002, 5047 posts, RR: 25
Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7647 times:

If BA go LCC, they will lose more market. MAN and LGW both have large numbers of LCCs serving them, and nearby airports. These LCCs can waste BA on price (733 -v- ERJ - which has the lower costs per seat?), while BA will be trying to peddle the same service.


No trees were harmed by this message. However, several million electrons were terribly inconvenienced
User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7612 times:

Very good point Mhodgson. BAs taxes and fuel surcharges alone add up to more than some of the LCCs fares.

There has to be choice and BA is often the only choice now for travellers in the North who want a full service on board. Giving an LCC type service will mean people will see BA as Easyjet and just book the cheapest fare.


User currently offlineCol From Malaysia, joined Nov 2003, 2116 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7592 times:

My money is on BA offering LCC standards on an ERJ and Dash 8. So the best option is for them to stop wasting evryone's time and let the real polished LCC's take over their routes. AMS is a prime example of what an LCC can do, where BA failed. Rome next year will also see the same, I am sure. T3, could then become the LCC terminal, no need to build a new one, just use what you have efficiently.

Just my 2 cents


User currently offline7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 35
Reply 18, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7557 times:

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 16):
There has to be choice and BA is often the only choice now for travellers in the North who want a full service on board. Giving an LCC type service will mean people will see BA as Easyjet and just book the cheapest fare.

BA recognise that customers are now price (not service) driven on short haul; routes. They are adapting. Rather like Thomsonfly did with Brittania.

BA are facing an uphill struggle in the regions as the LCC's take a hold. By offering a comparable product, BA are having their parting shot. Hoping the BA brand at reduced prices and reduced levels of service will win back some customers.

They will always have the added 'plus' of being the only LCC with interlineability in the UK, so will continue to fed their Long Haul network.



Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
User currently offlineSevenair From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 1728 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7511 times:

i think BAry is quite quirky, but theres nothing wrong with plain British Airways. Must be one of the most well known and trusted brands in the UK.

User currently offlineEGNM-LBA From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 156 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7467 times:

Quoting Col (Reply 17):
AMS is a prime example of what an LCC can do, where BA failed

Indeed. The EZY service from LPL-AMS was a thorn in BAs side at MAN for some considerable time.


User currently offlineSpeedbirdcrew From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 7403 times:

Quoting Monkeyboi (Reply 14):
Their crews work to different terms and conditions that BA Mainline

But all LGW crew are BA Mainline so I dont see ur point there.

Its gonna be interesting to see what happens but at the moment one cabin isnt on the cards or so we have been told many times. I'll be looking at whatever changes are bought in positively as we have to give them a chance afterall but like I said its certainly gonna be interesting


User currently offlineNoelg From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 7336 times:

That's the trouble with this part of the world (and North America too). Look elsewhere around the world - you mostly have mainline and regional.

South African - Mainline and Express. Air New Zealand - Mainline and Link. QANTAS - Mainline and Link. Even in Europe - Air France and Regional, Lufthansa and Connect, Iberia and Regional.

The UK/North America are hell bent on splitting airlines down into so many different markets - it's almost as though they don't know where to aim so they're just firing blank shots off in all directions!

What's wrong with good old mainline and regional? I have long said the secret is to sell a range of standard fares with different conditions/perks, similar to AC Mainline. You still have the same aircraft, so there are no issues with painting or crewing, and you literally get what you pay for - none of this "I used to have business class but it's now changed to an LCC route".

Noel.


User currently offlineDavidT From Switzerland, joined Oct 2005, 477 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 7314 times:

The BA flights I've done from MAN have often been very full. I really hope they do something positive, like order loads of erj 175s and place them all at man Big grin

Not going to happen though. Most likely it'll go all LCCish. Shame.


User currently offlineMhodgson From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2002, 5047 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7167 times:

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 18):
BA recognise that customers are now price (not service) driven on short haul; routes. They are adapting. Rather like Thomsonfly did with Brittania.

BA are facing an uphill struggle in the regions as the LCC's take a hold. By offering a comparable product, BA are having their parting shot. Hoping the BA brand at reduced prices and reduced levels of service will win back some customers.

But is it likely to work when using an ERJ or DH-8 on the services? There will be fewer low fares per flight, and the costs are likely to be higher as a result of using regional aircraft. Add to that you already pay £50 taxes and fees for a BA booking, and can see how short of offering FR-esque 1p fares, they will struggle to really compete as an LCC. At least currently they have a service above many other airlines. Look at Air Nostrum - doing well, and providing a premium service.

Perhaps that is what they will do - an Air Nostrum style service, to stand out from the LCCs  Silly



No trees were harmed by this message. However, several million electrons were terribly inconvenienced
25 Richard28 : You also have LCC offshoot JetStar, and Longhaul offshoot Australian airlines.
26 Amy : I don't like this Walsh guy already. His plans seem to be to turn BA from (arguably) the world's most successful airline into just another messed up m
27 Post contains images OH-LGA : Well I do hope that makes you feel better I do agree that British Airways as a standalone brand is quite well known and works quite well. Having said
28 Boysteve : I really hope that they don't go LCC. Can BA not see the bad feeling towards BMI for doing similar? Are they that stupid? They tried low cost before
29 Stirling : I for one like the sound of BA Red, British Airways Red, or British Red, or what have you. Red is one of people's most favourite colours. After Blue,
30 Post contains images Hals : BA Red...is Ken Livingstone the new CEO ??? Sounds far too "commie" to me. What's next, EasyJet rebranded "McCarthyJet" to counter BA Red...Aeroflot t
31 VV701 : Why BA Red? Isn't Willie Walsh an Irishman? Didn't he run Aer Lingus? So surely it's got to be BA Green! As an aside to the above wasn't AL a regional
32 FLYtoEGCC : Not animosity towards "Red" as such - just confusion as to what BA is trying to achive by rebranding regional services with an apparently meaningless
33 RichardJF : I would of thought if your flying LGW-MCO you want to strongly differentiate that from LHR-JFK. You want to maintain and enhance BA's restrained Briti
34 Fuffla : Why not just call it BA?
35 Post contains images UK_Dispatcher : It's time to bring back the brand..... PLEASE BA - bring it back.... Everyone knows the name, and you have the rights to it still, surely??
36 Orion737 : Miuch as I would love to see my beloved Dan Dare resurected, I dont think BA will do that.
37 Post contains images BCAL : What many people seem to forget is that BA only acquired their LGW base on their murder, sorry, takeover of British Caledonian Airways in Autumn 1988.
38 Orion737 : Yes and the 734s that BA today operate from LGW were actually former Dan Air aircraft they inherited in the takeover. it would be great to see BCAL re
39 RichardJF : British Caledonian with the lion on the tail and a new updated colourscheme would probably go down very nicely in the UK. Good low risk idea for Willi
40 LACA773 : BCAL, thanks so much for a brief history of how British Caledonian went about establishing themselves @ LGW and developing, offering and delivering a
41 Candid76 : I've said it before and I'll say it again. You can't run a true LCC model with 50 seat aircraft (the direct operating costs of the Dash 8 should be re
42 Orion737 : The BA Citiexpress service is already providing a slightly lesser product in both economy and business class. Economy is usually free bar service and
43 Boysteve : Yes, its called 'BA'. no more, no less
44 VV701 : All the 734s operated by BA are based at LGW. The eleven aircraft previously operated by Dan Air are now all with other airlines. Those still in serv
45 Post contains images Monkeyboi : Just found out yesterday that 'BA Red' is the internal project name for the rebranding, no choice of new name (if any) has been decided on. I say call
46 AirEuropeUK733 : That would be good - but how about this for irony. Cityflyer was born from Cityflyer Express, which BA bought a few years back (previously had been a
47 PM : Quite hard to imagine, actually... Chicago, maybe, but Delta have a somewhat greater presence at ATL than do UA.
48 Post contains images FLYtoEGCC : Watch it, pal... there's a great many City fans, myself included, who would be deeply insulted if THAT was the reason "BA Red" was linked with Manche
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