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Continental-CLE Hub Saved By Pension Bill Change  
User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3092 posts, RR: 10
Posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6014 times:

Courtesy: KRIS-TV

Continental Says Cleveland Hub Saved By Late Pension Bill Change

http://www.kristv.com/Global/story.asp?S=3961199

14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineCLE757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1121 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5914 times:

Well this is the first I've heard of this, but now add some flights Continental!


Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5750 times:

Saw that on here, and passed it around to some co-workers, and we were all a bit suprised, to say the least. I'd like to see some kind of independent confirmation that this is true before believing it completely.

User currently offlineJoeman From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5690 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 2):
I'd like to see some kind of independent confirmation that this is true before believing it completely.

I certainly don't blame you for wanting to do this.

Quoting CLE757 (Reply 1):
Well this is the first I've heard of this, but now add some flights Continental!

Agreed, development seems crucial. CO CLE operation? Well, slightly inconsistent. Most of my posts tend to have knocked CO at CLE and what simply seemed to me as being treated as a deteriorating nuisance. In reality, I was always hoping they would show some respect and long term confirmation of their presence beyond signing a ten year lease for gate space in what seemed to be publicity hype about their commitment.

IF this piece is true, I think David Messing's quote is partly a result of what management has allowed to happen and I hope the contingency plan is not just a short term fix, especially for the CO employees at CLE. Hopefully, their voices and those of CLE officials can convince management to act as though the CLE operation truly exists and needs attention just like the other two mainland "hubs", otherwise CO should stop "!#@*?ing" around with more than 4,000 people as they allow it to die.


User currently offlineCLE757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1121 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5559 times:

I think that the people in IAH need to realize CLE is the BEST HUB/Station with the best employees that CO has, and they should expand it not shrink it.


Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6785 posts, RR: 34
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5481 times:

Quoting CLE757 (Reply 4):
I think that the people in IAH need to realize CLE is the BEST HUB/Station with the best employees that CO has, and they should expand it not shrink it.

CLE certainly is a fine operation and there's lots of fine people up there and it's managed very well.

However, it's not a matter of just expanding it if there's no money in it. It suits it's purpose, but may not necessarily do so if it were smaller or bigger per se.


User currently offlineCLE757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1121 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5436 times:

I think the biggest problem in CLE is that the gates arent used enough times per-day to be profitable. What CAL needs to do is add two maybe three more large banks per day with additional cities.CLE-SAN,PDX,SEA,JAX,OMA,DSM etc etc.. More flights to LAX,LAS,ORD,MCO,BOS and some Continental Connection flight as well to PIA,YNG,AZO etc etc.


Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offlineMarshalN From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2005, 1521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5358 times:

In the four years I lived around CLE and used it as my main airport, I liked it in so far as it was relatively delay free and not often stuck with the weather problems that places like ORD did. It was a pretty nice, small, and convenient airport to fly in/out of. It'll be a pity if it died...

User currently offlineJoeman From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5364 times:

Quoting CLE757 (Reply 6):
think the biggest problem in CLE is that the gates arent used enough times per-day to be profitable. What CAL needs to do is add two maybe three more large banks per day with additional cities.CLE-SAN,PDX,SEA,JAX,OMA,DSM etc etc.. More flights to LAX,LAS,ORD,MCO,BOS and some Continental Connection flight as well to PIA,YNG,AZO etc etc.

I so agree. In fact, any service/connection opportunity improvement would help.

There's been a lot of discussion lately about CO being cramped at CLE due to gate apron improvements, that's the current popular theory on service decline and improvement stagnation. No doubt limited gates means limited connection opportunities and addition burden to ground crew employees. From nearly 300 daily flights in 1999 down to today's level of mainline vs. Express operation, it's a little tough to accept.

It just seems there's always a reason for CO not to attempt CLE development improvement: just one runway (since built), not enough gates now, not enough wide-body's to switch a 757 to a 767 for CLE-LGW, international is where it's at now....

The bank usage idea is interesting, I wouldn't expect that very quickly, not from this carriers history at CLE. CLE often looks like a ghost town except during the bank times CO currently offers.


User currently offlineJoeman From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5262 times:

Quoting MarshalN (Reply 7):
In the four years I lived around CLE and used it as my main airport, I liked it in so far as it was relatively delay free and not often stuck with the weather problems that places like ORD did. It was a pretty nice, small, and convenient airport to fly in/out of. It'll be a pity if it died...

At least CAK is experiencing sudden boosts in service to accommodate the region as CO dominates and controls CLE.

Building a new runway/extension projects by CLE that were blessed by CO to accommodate their proclaimed operational hardship and driving the operating costs up of all airlines servicing CLE to pay for it is very hard to accept given these looming rumors of CO's CLE destiny.

I'll never forget Gordon Bethume addressing CLE business leaders trying to rally support for CO several years ago with a threat to close the hub when AirTran came to CAK. The notion was given that everyone was flocking to their handful of flights (back then, now there's more) and CLE was their weakest hub. Hmm, what causes a place to go from most profitable per Cleveland Plain Dealer, to last? I doubt it has to do with close nurturing from the top. My respect was gone.

I'm very pleased to read the praise that the CO CLE team and (Local) management has received on this thread.


User currently offlineGoCOgo From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 701 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5187 times:

Quoting CLE757 (Reply 6):
I think the biggest problem in CLE is that the gates arent used enough times per-day to be profitable. What CAL needs to do is add two maybe three more large banks per day with additional cities.

I completely agree that CO gates are underused during much of the day. But they need to ramp up service slowly, perhaps adding just one bank of flights. To dump massive amounts of capacity in CLE at one time could be disastrous.

Glad to see Voinovich and De Wine going to bat for Ohio's one and only air passenger hub. (Remember, CVG is in Kentucky)

It does sound, at least to me, that CO is hinting that their grand plan for CLE is to hope that CVG, DTW, or UA at ORD goes out of business as a hub through their respective carries going out of business or merging. I could also be reading too much into the statements, which I have been known to do.



"Why you fly is your business, how you fly is ours"
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11409 posts, RR: 62
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5173 times:

Quoting GoCOgo (Reply 10):
It does sound, at least to me, that CO is hinting that their grand plan for CLE is to hope that CVG, DTW, or UA at ORD goes out of business as a hub through their respective carries going out of business or merging.

If that's their plan (I don't think it is -- CO management is very smart) than I would tell them not to hold their breath. All three of those hubs (UA-ORD, NW-DTW, DL-CVG) are fairly integral to those respective carriers' networks and all three are either the largest or second largest hub for those airlines. I can't see any of those hubs being shuttered, as both DL and NW are likely to hang on to their midwest and northeast connecting hubs, and UA won't leave ORD unless it ceases to exist.

[Edited 2005-10-12 03:10:38]

User currently offlineGoCOgo From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 701 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5142 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 11):
If that's their plan (I don't think it is -- CO management is very smart) than I would tell them not to hold their breath. All three of those hubs (UA-ORD, NW-DTW, DL-CVG) are fairly integral to those respective carriers' networks and all three are either the largest or second largest hub for those airlines. I can't see any of those hubs being shuttered, as both DL and NW are likely to hang on to their midwest and northeast connecting hubs, and UA won't leave ORD unless it ceases to exist.

I think CVG is the most vulnerable. DL would still have ATL if it gave up on CVG, while, agreed, the other 2 would be lost without their Midwest hubs. Nevertheless, 3/4 of the legacies in bankruptcy have Midwest hubs (UA-ORD, NW-DTW and MSP, and DL-CVG), and I think their has to be at least one that goes the way of Eastern, Pan Am, and TWA. While the government wants to save them all, this article shows clearly that there are those in government, perhaps with some lobbying by AA and CO, that aren't going to stop at nothing to save a carrier, like we thought would happen.



"Why you fly is your business, how you fly is ours"
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11409 posts, RR: 62
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5142 times:

Quoting GoCOgo (Reply 12):
I think CVG is the most vulnerable. DL would still have ATL if it gave up on CVG

They could dump Cincinnati, granted, but I think they would lose a considerable amount of the large Northeast traffic that flows over Cincinnati to get to the west coast, midwest and south. I believe that many would opt for American or United over O'Hare, American over St. Louis, Northwest over Detroit or Continental over Cleveland before going way down south -- out of their geographical way -- to get to the west or south via Atlanta.


User currently offlineJoeman From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5108 times:

Quoting GoCOgo (Reply 10):
To dump massive amounts of capacity in CLE at one time could be disastrous.

Definitely true, and history shows they won't.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 13):
They could dump Cincinnati, granted, but I think they would lose a considerable amount of the large Northeast traffic that flows over Cincinnati to get to the west coast, midwest and south. I believe that many would opt for American or United over O'Hare, American over St. Louis, Northwest over Detroit or Continental over Cleveland before going way down south -- out of their geographical way -- to get to the west or south via Atlanta.

I think you're right, not so sure of CO feelings on the matter considering their usage of CLE. My cheapest CLE-PDX flight last year was CLE-DFW-PDX. If I paid a little more out of CLE CO loyalty it would have been CLE-IAH-PDX. Going to the Gulf of New Mexico before going to the Pacific Northwest was out, but I certainly came close. Cheaper than using ORD, an annoying roundabout itinerary, but at least I avoided ORD!!! But, spreading high volume routings through places like CLE, PIT, CVG, and STL, on sensible routing patterns yet, seem on their way out in favor of packing the already overcrowded airports people generally prefer to avoid.


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