TrnsWrld From United States of America, joined May 1999, 763 posts, RR: 0 Posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 12214 times:
Sorry if this pic has been posted before, but I was doing random searches and came across this horrendous MD-80 tail closeup. Now I am not usually one to say "oh my god that plane is dirty I wont fly on it" but I think if I was waiting at the gate and this thing pulled up I would be very hesitant. I know just because an airplane is dirty or has parts from another airplane doesn't necessarily mean its unsafe, but this is just ridiculous and downright nasty!
Enjoy
L-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29350 posts, RR: 62 Reply 2, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 12129 times:
If I built a homebuilt, I really want to paint every part of the aircraft in a different color just to screw with the FAA inspectors.
Well, I have my doubts of the strictness of the regulation where that plane is operated, but in those tropic areas, you have to figure the hot/humid conditions do take their toll.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
DLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 3, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 12115 times:
So much bare metal showing through, and I'm not talking about an AA clear coat, either. Bare metal IS unsafe, the paint protects the metal fuselage exterior from the elements and without that protection the metal can fatigue much faster.
TrnsWrld From United States of America, joined May 1999, 763 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 12114 times:
ahh cool that last pic was taken a couple months AFTER the shot that I originally posted. Sure looks great in that newer pic now. Maybe it was being worked on or what not. Either way glad to see it doing good now.
474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 10 Reply 5, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 11511 times:
Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 3): So much bare metal showing through, and I'm not talking about an AA clear coat, either. Bare metal IS unsafe, the paint protects the metal fuselage exterior from the elements and without that protection the metal can fatigue much faster.
Please explain to be why bare metal can "fatigue much faster"? It may corrode if it is not treated properly, but the stresses that cause fatigue are the same on bare metal as they are on painted metal.
I don't know how AA treats their bare skins but most use clear Alodine 1000 (or equivalent). While painted aluminum surfaces use Alodine 1200 (or equivalent) which turns the aluminum a light golden brown. Either one protects the bare metal, the clear just looks better.
Lemurs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1439 posts, RR: 4 Reply 6, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 11340 times:
Quoting 474218 (Reply 5): Please explain to be why bare metal can "fatigue much faster"? It may corrode if it is not treated properly, but the stresses that cause fatigue are the same on bare metal as they are on painted metal.
I don't know how AA treats their bare skins but most use clear Alodine 1000 (or equivalent). While painted aluminum surfaces use Alodine 1200 (or equivalent) which turns the aluminum a light golden brown. Either one protects the bare metal, the clear just looks better.
Bare metal is more likely to become pitted, which causes uneven corrosion, which changes localized fatigue over the surface of the metal. This is why they paint/clearcoat. Aluminum is tough stuff, but it's not invincible.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
Glasgow From Australia, joined Sep 2005, 86 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 11242 times:
Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 3): So much bare metal showing through, and I'm not talking about an AA clear coat, either. Bare metal IS unsafe, the paint protects the metal fuselage exterior from the elements and without that protection the metal can fatigue much faster.
Surely the metal will have been galvanised in some way and not only relying on the paint as a protective layer?
Corrosion does not cause fatigue. Corroded material may fatigue faster but the original quote was that "bare metal fatigues much faster". The fatigue is there whether the area is painted or not.
If you look at the original photo the bare areas at golden brown, they have been treated with Alodine 1200 and are therefore protected from corrosion, the paint only added a extra layer of protection.
Lemurs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1439 posts, RR: 4 Reply 9, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 10940 times:
Quoting 474218 (Reply 8): If you look at the original photo the bare areas at golden brown, they have been treated with Alodine 1200 and are therefore protected from corrosion, the paint only added a extra layer of protection.
Yes, but I was addressing the metal fatigue, not the photo itself. (Which, you are absolutely correct, is not bare metal.) Technically I see your point, and the original statement was vague to the point of being wrong, but the point s/he was trying to communicate is that bare metal can lead to fatigue problems, which is true.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 10 Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 10882 times:
Quoting Lemurs (Reply 9): the point s/he was trying to communicate is that bare metal can lead to fatigue problems, which is true.
So American Airlines, bare metal aircraft, have more fatigue problems than other aircraft of the same type operated by a airline that paints the entire plane? Say AA MD-80 have more fatigue problems than DL MD-80's?
Boeing744 From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 1769 posts, RR: 25 Reply 12, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 10404 times:
I saw an Iberia 321 that was like that, parked at a gate at FCO. I looked for a picture of it, but could not find one. It looks fairly similar, except this plane had it worse than the MD-80. Does anybody know anything about this plane?
Lemurs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1439 posts, RR: 4 Reply 13, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 10316 times:
Quoting 474218 (Reply 10): So American Airlines, bare metal aircraft, have more fatigue problems than other aircraft of the same type operated by a airline that paints the entire plane? Say AA MD-80 have more fatigue problems than DL MD-80's?
No, because AA doesn't run bare metal either, in the sense we're talking about here. They have a maintenance regimen that takes these factors into account. First and foremost, they polish their aluminum...if you see the aluminum as it comes off the machine tools it's not shiny like an AA aircraft, it's matte. The polishing gives it that distinctive look, reduces surface friction, and buffs out dings and divots that cause the aforementioned corrosion and stress differential problems.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
EFCar98 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 137 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 9298 times:
Isn't that a problem because of the weight of the tail? I know when new planes are painted, the rudder is painted before the horizontal stabilizer so that it can be calibrated because even the weight of the paint needs to be taken into account?
SlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 71 Reply 16, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 7299 times:
When you paint a control surface such as a rudder, don't you have to balance it afterwards? Followup question: (Gee! I feel like Sam Donaldson) What happens when part of the paint peels off? Doesn't that unbalance it?
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
Zippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 4724 posts, RR: 13 Reply 17, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5831 times:
Uh Oh Better get Maaco!
That wobegone bird looks like it has seen better days. I'd be a wee bit leary especially if a wreck like this was a foreign carrier. Sorry if I sound a little nationalistic. But...
Acidradio From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 1855 posts, RR: 10 Reply 18, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4955 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Zippy - none of those seven metro locations are anywhere near the airport! But that's what highways are for, right?
Actually, if that coupon weren't expired, I might use it on my car and go to the St. Louis Park one
Socalfive From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 19, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks ago) and read 4435 times:
The rudder panel is obviously off another AC. Balance IS the issue here, the rudders are the one and only part of an aircraft that has to be balanced. Since the subsequent picture shows the AC in new paint, it seems to me to be an issue of keeping the plane in service until the D or E check that prompted the new paint, or the scheduled painting
Boy, I don't know about that statement.
Corrosion which is a fancy name for rust has to cause metal fatigue. It may not be the only cause but one of the causes. I think we have all seen cases where something metal has rusted to the point where it breaks. Is not that break fatigue caused by rust?
safe
[Edited 2005-10-12 03:10:19]
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
ATCT From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2035 posts, RR: 40 Reply 22, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3566 times:
I have flown many an aircraft with chips, dents, paint missing, spare parts etc., just because the paint doesnt match up, or there is paint chips (note: older USAirways birds, and....Air France) does not make it any more unsafe than a bird out of the paint shop. If you know anything about the aviation sales buisness, a re-painted airplane will sell 4x as fast and for up to 25% more money just because it looks nice, even though it could be corroded beyond belief and the equipment is crap.
I say if its got an airworthy cert., is within its checks (or annual's for G/a) I would fly in it. (this is within reason of course...a cracked prop...well..no thanks).
ATCT
Real pilots fly planes that take and measure oil in gallons
DarthRandall From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 302 posts, RR: 4 Reply 23, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3416 times:
Adam Sandlar's song "Piece of S--- Car" comes to mind when I see that picture. All it needs is duct tape!
Ninjas can kill anyone they want! Ninjas cut off heads all the time and don't even think twice about it.
Yhmfan From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 607 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3307 times:
I visited their website and they talk about operating an "all Boeing" fleet of two MD82's......... All the pictures they have on the website is of a 737.....
Bare metal, painted, decorated or any other way, I think I'll pass on flying this one!
[Edited 2005-10-12 04:28:32]
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you
25 DLKAPA: Because there isn't a protective buffer between the metal and the exremes of flying (Hot, Cold, fast flying dust). AA as has been said takes these me
26 Kevinl1011: Can you call an MD built 82 series craft a "B717" after the merger? That's like a 1987 Jeep Cherokee. AMC or MOPAR? It's a MOPAR when procuring spare
27 CaptOveur: I was going to ask if you were 13, but I checked your profile. You are old enough to know better. AA puts a clearcoat on their airplanes, this protec
28 474218: The definition of fatigue is: "The tendency of material to break under repeated stress." You still have not convinced me that bare aluminum will "fati
29 474218: I use to work for Douglas and they are all DC-9's to me.
30 Lemurs: Sure, that's the dictionary definition. Sit down with a metallurgist and structural engineer and ask them to explain more. You'd get a degree out of
31 Mandala499: It's a Lion Air MD82... Anyone in the right mind would avoid it ! :P Mandala499
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