Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
My Ipod And Take-off? Whats The Problem?  
User currently offlineFbm3rd From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 162 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 9621 times:

So can someone explain to me why my ipod harms the takeoff of an airplane...i am not attempting to say that my ipod does NOT harm the take off, all i am saying is that if my ipod does, do i really wanta fly anymore???

This all stemed from a recent flight from RDU-STL via CLT...on the RDU-CLT i had my ipod in my hands and it was off...i did have my headphones on but it was off. in any case before take off they said to power down all devices.. as the FA walked through the cabin he said to me "sir thats supposed to be off, please trun off your ipod" i said "it is off" "he said can i see it" so i showed it to him and then closed my eyes for a quick nap...

why did he make such a big deal out of it anyway? i mean i did say it was off, why not trust me? and secondly what is the harm even if it was on?

thanks and sorry for the backlash i might get from asking such a simple quest.?

FM III

54 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUAalltheway From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 9594 times:

Quoting Fbm3rd (Thread starter):
what is the harm even if it was on?

According to FAA and airline policy/law it could interfere with you hearing crewmember instruction if an emergency should happen after take-off.


User currently offlineFbm3rd From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 9575 times:

Quoting UAalltheway (Reply 1):
According to FAA and airline policy/law it could interfere with you hearing crewmember instruction if an emergency should happen after take-off.

ahhh.. i get it, as if whatever might have caused the emergency landing might not be loud as he*l in and of its self... (joking)
j/k- i was just unsure if it caused some type of mechanical problem. thanx


User currently offlineUA777222 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3348 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 9567 times:

Quoting UAalltheway (Reply 1):
According to FAA and airline policy/law it could interfere with you hearing crewmember instruction if an emergency should happen after take-off.

And laptops and such are prohibited along with cabin lights as it also says that your eyes will take 5-10 second to adjust to the dark/light if in a crash/evac..

Just a cool thing to think about,

Matt



"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
User currently offlineWr70beh From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 9565 times:

I'm not much of a poster here on this board but I would like to chime in here: unfortunately some people ruin things for the rest of us and do not follow the rules. They'll say something is off yet it isn't. Hence asking you if they could see your iPod. That's the way things are in this society. Certain people act so irresponsibly that it ruins things for the public at large. I'm sure you had your iPod off but I'm sure that flight attendants have to check everything thoroughly. As far as how an iPod effects takeoff and landings, I'd like to find this out as well. My only theory is that some devices CAN cause interference with devices that the pilots need to fly the plane, so they don't take any chances and prohibit a wide range of devices.

User currently offlineAviation From Australia, joined Dec 2004, 1143 posts, RR: 21
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 9549 times:

Beacuse Airlines make money if you buy their headphones for their in flight "entertainment".

Thanks,
Aaron J Nicoli



Signed, Aaron Nicoli - Trans World Airlines Collector
User currently offlineFbm3rd From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 9546 times:

Quoting Wr70beh (Reply 4):
They'll say something is off yet it isn't. Hence asking you if they could see your iPod. That's the way things are in this society

yeah i understand and it was off...but i'll be damned if they didnt have us board 45min late and then we sat on the plane for ages before rolling back, all along i am thinking "i could have dame-it drove to charlotte by now"..adn more reason for me to listen to some tunes.. thanks for the thoughtful post all..
fm iii


User currently offlineFbm3rd From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 9530 times:

Quoting Aviation (Reply 5):
Beacuse Airlines make money if you buy their headphones for their in flight "entertainment".

 laughing 

i can see him now "turn off your ipod sir, if you want to have fun on this flight it'll cost ya"...what will the they of charging us for next?


User currently offlineSonOfACaptain From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1747 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 9516 times:

Quoting Fbm3rd (Thread starter):
why did he make such a big deal out of it anyway? i mean i did say it was off, why not trust me?

As mentioned before, there was no way the F/A could have known this. I have seen people lie about this all the time.

Quoting Aviation (Reply 5):
Beacuse Airlines make money if you buy their headphones for their in flight "entertainment".

Huh? That isn't even relevant to this subject, especially since there was no IFE on this flight.

Quoting UA777222 (Reply 3):
And laptops and such are prohibited along with cabin lights as it also says that your eyes will take 5-10 second to adjust to the dark/light if in a crash/evac..

The lights actually depend on the airline. For instance, AA keeps the light on during take-off and landing. However, most airlines do not. Interestingly, if the airlines go against their specific policy, then they would be breaking the law.

-SOAC



Non Illegitimi Carborundum
User currently offlineKAUSpilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1959 posts, RR: 33
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 9478 times:

Believe it or not, the magnetic fields generated by portable electronic devices can interfere with the avionics in airliners.

Don't get me wrong, you aren't going to cause the aircraft to instantly burst into flames by listening to Brittney Spears on your IPod, but you can interfere with VHF radio communication and navigation signals if you happen to be sitting in the right spot in the airplane. This effect is especially important under 10,000 ft, because below this altitude airliners may be utilizing VHF navigation signals. Above this altitude, FMS based navigation is employed (utilizing a GPS or inertial reference system).

I have personally witnessed the effects of cellphone signals on avionics. There is a very audible noise that transmits through the headsets in the cockpit when a telephone on board recieves a call in flight. Certain tests have shown that portable electronic devices can have a similiarly negative effect on the accuracy of VHF navigation signals.

Granted, aircraft manufactures should be imporving the avionics' resistance to this type of interference so hopefully someday soon it will be possible to use cellphones and other devices without potentially interfering with comm/nav signals.

Hope this helps to provide some justification for the rules.


User currently offlinePER744 From Australia, joined Mar 2003, 405 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 9434 times:

One could also ask the question "Was it really a lot of effort for you to show the F/A your iPod?"

User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 9424 times:

Quoting KAUSpilot (Reply 9):
Don't get me wrong, you aren't going to cause the aircraft to instantly burst into flames by listening to Brittney Spears on your IPod

Really? Because she is flamingly retarded...


User currently offlineYYZatcboy From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1083 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 9402 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CUSTOMER SERVICE & SUPPORT

I expect the reason they asked was that you had your headphones in your ears.  Smile


DHC1/3/4 MD11/88 L1011 A319/20/21/30 B727 735/6/7/8/9 762/3 E175/90 CRJ/700/705 CC150. J/S DH8D 736/7/8
User currently offlineUSAFHummer From United States of America, joined May 2000, 10685 posts, RR: 53
Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 9382 times:

Quoting UAalltheway (Reply 1):

According to FAA and airline policy/law it could interfere with you hearing crewmember instruction if an emergency should happen after take-off.



Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 12):
I expect the reason they asked was that you had your headphones in your ears. Smile

On both Frontier and jetBlue, which I've flown and both which feature PTV's, the PTV's are left on following the safety demo and are on and useable during taxi and takeoff, as well as landing...to listen to them obviously involves using headsets, so Im not too sure if there's a specific reg banning the use of headphones during taxi/takeoff/landing

Greg

[Edited 2005-10-11 07:01:40]


Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
User currently offlineHa763 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 3660 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 9347 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting USAFHummer (Reply 13):
On both Frontier and jetBlue, which I've flown and both which feature PTV's, the PTV's are left on following the safety demo and are on and useable during taxi and takeoff, as well as landing...to listen to them obviously involves using headsets, so Im not too sure if there's a specific reg banning the use of headphones during taxi/takeoff/landing

The regulations cover personal electronic devices. The PTVs are part of the aircraft and not personal electronic devices.


User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9109 posts, RR: 75
Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 9328 times:

Quoting Fbm3rd (Thread starter):
So can someone explain to me why my ipod harms the takeoff of an airplane...i am not attempting to say that my ipod does NOT harm the take off, all i am saying is that if my ipod does, do i really wanta fly anymore???

As pointed out, its a pure safety issue, and if you refused to comply with such a simple request not to listen to them for takeoff or landing, and had been personally asked after the PA, and you still listened to them, I would most probably get you met at the gate, possibly arrested, and banned from flying with the airline again.

Because the industry is so safe, passengers often think their little change will not effect the outcome in an emergency, or cause an emergency, I don’t know if it will either. However I am lot going to experiment during an emergency with my life, other passengers lives, and your life. I want everything going my way before an emergency presented.

I also get very annoyed at passengers who move their seat backs after takeoff while the seat belt sign is still on, or undo their seat belts and stand up as we are getting closer to the gate. Both can turn into emergency situations so quickly.

Quoting KAUSpilot (Reply 9):
Believe it or not, the magnetic fields generated by portable electronic devices can interfere with the avionics in airliners.

The jury is still out on that, and a the extent of interference if any is common misconception amongst the public. I will use this misconception to my advantage at times when passengers fail to listen to simple PA or requests from cabin crew. Something like " Ladies and Gentleman we seem to be experiencing some interference to our navigation equipment which could effect the safety of out flight, if you have any electronic equipment on we ask that you immediately turn it off". You should see the speed at which passengers nearby tell them to turn it off thinking they will crash.

Some further reading
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAPAP2003_03.PDF
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/50/Gsm_intf.pdf
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aer...azine/aero_10/interfere_story.html



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineUSAFHummer From United States of America, joined May 2000, 10685 posts, RR: 53
Reply 16, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 9315 times:

Quoting Ha763 (Reply 14):
The regulations cover personal electronic devices. The PTVs are part of the aircraft and not personal electronic devices.

Obviously...that's not what I was talking about...the issue is the fact that the headphones required to properly use the PTV and the facecould be a safety issue during taxi/t.o./ and landing...

Greg



Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
User currently offlineKAUSpilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1959 posts, RR: 33
Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 9278 times:

Quoting Zeke (Reply 15):
The jury is still out on that, and a the extent of interference if any is common misconception amongst the public.

Oh there's no doubt that they can and do cause interference. However, you usually have to get the device very close to the avionics equipment itself before it is noticeable (i.e., in the cockpit). There are various antenna and wiring for avionics which pass through the cabin in close proximity to passengers.


User currently offlineDAL7e7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 357 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 9241 times:

Quoting Zeke (Reply 15):
I also get very annoyed at passengers who move their seat backs after takeoff while the seat belt sign is still on, or undo their seat belts and stand up as we are getting closer to the gate. Both can turn into emergency situations so quickly.

Kind of like that Turkish? Captain that after the usual "remain seated until the aircraft has come.....and The Captain has turned off the fasten seatbelt sign" announcement that slammed on the brakes and said, "Glad you were buckled up"


DAL7e7



DAL7e7 is wondering... Do pilots take crash courses?
User currently offlineNZAA From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 9166 times:

It is for the safety of every one in the plane. If the planes engine were to flame out on take off and the plane had a sharp movement the iPod could fall out of your hand and hit some one else.

Travis



Planes Piloted Tecnam P2002 JF, Cessna 172R, Cessna 152, Airbus A320
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21642 posts, RR: 55
Reply 20, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 9097 times:

Quoting KAUSpilot (Reply 9):
Don't get me wrong, you aren't going to cause the aircraft to instantly burst into flames by listening to Brittney Spears on your IPod, but you can interfere with VHF radio communication and navigation signals if you happen to be sitting in the right spot in the airplane. This effect is especially important under 10,000 ft, because below this altitude airliners may be utilizing VHF navigation signals. Above this altitude, FMS based navigation is employed (utilizing a GPS or inertial reference system).

AFAIK, NW's DC-9s don't have an INS, it's VOR navigation all the way, and I've been allowed to use my CD player and laptop while in cruise on them.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineJeffSFO From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 837 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 9052 times:

Quoting KAUSpilot (Reply 17):
Oh there's no doubt that they can and do cause interference. However, you usually have to get the device very close to the avionics equipment itself before it is noticeable (i.e., in the cockpit). There are various antenna and wiring for avionics which pass through the cabin in close proximity to passengers.

I'm not disagreeing with you but I have a funny story. There's a guy I know who's an A320 captain with UA based out of SFO. Earlier this year I was contracting at a place right under the approach path to the 28s near SFO and I told him I always wondered if he was flying one of those planes I'd see on approach every day. He told me, "Give me a call on my cell phone--if I'm flying over I'll answer it." A bunch of people were sitting around when he said that and we all laughed, however, he was serious. As far as he was concerned it wasn't a problem.

As for me, I'll listen to the flight attendant.


User currently offlineGoaliemn From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 463 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8851 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 20):
AFAIK, NW's DC-9s don't have an INS, it's VOR navigation all the way, and I've been allowed to use my CD player and laptop while in cruise on them.

The idea is at above 10,000 ft, if they experience problems with navigation, they'd announce that all electronic devices must be shut off, and they'd be able to correct any problem caused by the navigation problems manually, and/or before impacting another aircraft/object.

Below 10,000 ft, they are landing, or getting ready to land. Interfearance during this time could be a bad thing. If you're on final and the glideslope indicator jumps around, and the plane is on autoland, it wouldn't be fun.


User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 8812 times:

Quoting KAUSpilot (Reply 9):
but you can interfere with VHF radio communication and navigation signals if you happen to be sitting in the right spot in the airplane. This effect is especially important under 10,000 ft, because below this altitude airliners may be utilizing VHF navigation signals



Quoting KAUSpilot (Reply 9):
I have personally witnessed the effects of cellphone signals on avionics

But does it matter that iPods don't transmit anything?

Also... I had heard the cellphone thing was caused by the old "analog" cellphones which occassionally could screw up a TV/Radio reception on land as well. Are the newer (since say 1999-2000-ish) cellphones that are digital causing the same effects?


User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9109 posts, RR: 75
Reply 24, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 8794 times:

Quoting JeffSFO (Reply 21):
Quoting KAUSpilot (Reply 17):
Oh there's no doubt that they can and do cause interference. However, you usually have to get the device very close to the avionics equipment itself before it is noticeable (i.e., in the cockpit). There are various antenna and wiring for avionics which pass through the cabin in close proximity to passengers.

I'm not disagreeing with you but I have a funny story. There's a guy I know who's an A320 captain with UA based out of SFO. Earlier this year I was contracting at a place right under the approach path to the 28s near SFO and I told him I always wondered if he was flying one of those planes I'd see on approach every day.

I would agree, I would almost guarentee every flight I do at least one passenger and/or crew memeber will have left their phone on in the carry on luggage.

I have more problems with passengers boarding the aircraft still on the phone whilst we are refuelling, that is a bigger safety concern for me.

A good article and audio http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/399154.stm

Quoting JeffSFO (Reply 21):
As for me, I'll listen to the flight attendant.

Thanks, their job is not to serve you food and drinks, their job is to keep you alive in an emergency, listen to them, they are trained to keep you alive.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
25 LN-MOW : Guys - this is all really very simple. - The personal electronic devices may make you unable to hear emergency announcements over the PA. And emergenc
26 MNeo : Im suprised no one nemtioned this... If something happens the ipod becomes a projectile flying across the plane. If can hurt someone.
27 Fbm3rd : people please... lets be honest, all these reasons are very valid and very sound, but the fact of the matter is these are reason not to allow anyone
28 IslipWN : One time I left my iPod on during take off and it bugged out. The screen was blinking, all of the songs were playing at a super fast speed. And as soo
29 United787 : Last night on a WN flight, during approach, I noticed that I was getting a crackling noise that wasn't there during when we were cruising. I asked the
30 Post contains links Pawsleykat : Ok. I have an iPod mini. On a flight couple of days ago from LHR - GLA, I was told to switch my iPod off, yet if you go to www.flightlevel350.com/view
31 Post contains images Tornado82 : Even when I turn it off, it's still clipped to my waist, or in my shirt pocket if I'm wearing a dress shirt, in the same exact position as when its t
32 Goingboeing : I dunno....I do abide by the rules, but when I was on the road in the mid - 80's, every airline I flew, with the exception of Piedmont and Jet America
33 Post contains images S5FA170 : At my airline, everything you bring on board the airplane has to be stowed under the seat in front of you or in the overhead compartment before the ai
34 Post contains images Komododx : On the roads on occasion I see some signs that tell you what is the safe speed to go. On occasion, I also see people going much faster than what is i
35 Jetset7E7 : Are PSP's safe to use in flight? Mark
36 NRTfan : If this is the justification then I think you also have to be prepared to defend not allowing, for example, books during takeoff and landing. Or babi
37 Wdleiser : If you have a Radio or crappy set of computer speakers that plug into your USB port, call your cell or have someone send you a text message and you w
38 Aa757first : The rule is simple. Any electronic devices with an on/off switch must be off. AAndrew
39 Robsawatsky : Oh, but most electronic devices, particularly those containing a microprocessor, can and do radiate significant RF even if they contain nothing that
40 ZSOFN : I was lucky enough to sit in the right seat of a PC-12 for a few days in South Africa. During an approach into a major airport, we heard over the radi
41 ContnlEliteCMH : The latter yes, the former no. I routinely recline my seat a few seconds after takeoff because there's no way it could be a problem. If the aircraft
42 Flybynight : As far as I know there is no specific rule stating when you can put your seat back. After take-off is completed I have never heard anyone ever say pu
43 Post contains images B767400ER : And so for those of us who like to film the aircraft taking off and/or landing from a window seat, does my digital camera constitute a personal electr
44 S5FA170 : In response to your question, this is how my Flight Attendant Manual reads: It lists many kinds of devices in three classes, Prohibited Devices (at a
45 Zeke : It is a problem in an emergency as the person behind obstacle clear space now has the back of your seat in it, they would plant their head in the bac
46 Fbm3rd : thats a good one... from looking at half the pic on a.net we see people use cameras all the dang time...tis tis fm iii
47 Digao : Interesting... Do you remember your altitude? I'm asking because I really don't know in which altitude cell phones can work...
48 ZSOFN : Yeah - we were on an extended downwind leg at the time - approximately 2500-4000ft. I think you get pretty good reception even at up to 10000ft or so
49 Aviation : Their are pansies out there! Cheers,
50 ContnlEliteCMH : To which emergency are you referring, particulary right after takeoff? As I said, if there's a problem *and you can land*, then I've got oodles of ti
51 Post contains images ExFATboy : I don't know about that - that's some toxic stuff there. (sorry...couldn't resist) It's a testament to the fine folks at Apple that even loading Brit
52 Ikramerica : And as such, if they need to make an emergency announcement, they will interrupt your viewing and broadcast the message through those PTV headphones.
53 Jetdeltamsy : Because people push it all the time, and they lie thinking there couldn't possibly be any harm in having their electronic devices on. Just more of th
54 LongbowPilot : Can everyone say the same thing in different words? I mean you all are preaching the same thing. I think you should READ the posts before you post, to
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
14 Bis Ready To Take Off On The "Century Flight" posted Tue May 16 2006 04:35:27 by LipeGIG
GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem? posted Fri Dec 10 2004 16:15:08 by GLAGAZ
Landing And Take Off Video From Cabin Window posted Fri Apr 16 2004 22:23:40 by BRINK777
Whats The Problem With Iberia? posted Wed Oct 29 2003 02:55:10 by Dtwrunner
Take-off On The Wrong Runway posted Sun Dec 15 2002 16:08:51 by Avi
Heat And Take Off Relation posted Fri Aug 10 2001 07:56:15 by Alee
My Trip And The NW Strike Update... posted Thu Aug 17 2006 23:02:25 by Dolinja777
Take Off And Climb & New First Class Seats? posted Mon Jun 5 2006 17:28:48 by LordHowe
AA Eagle Aborts Take-off And Evacuates At RDU posted Wed Apr 19 2006 23:41:07 by Ewmahle
A380 Required Runway Length To Take Off And Land posted Sun Jan 8 2006 05:45:36 by NZCH
Whats The Difference Between The 773 And 77W posted Tue Oct 4 2011 15:30:32 by EUFlyer
Allegient Aborted Take-off And Engine Fire At ROA posted Fri Aug 13 2010 12:21:59 by twa727