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Arabesk Alliance To Be Launched Next Year  
User currently offlineHiJazzey From Saudi Arabia, joined Sep 2005, 872 posts, RR: 1
Posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6258 times:

According to Gulf News, the Arabesk alliance is due to be launched early next year. The members of the alliance are: SV , GF , MS , RJ , ME , IY , WY , TU .

Sounds promising from a Saudi perspective. SV's route network is weak in Europe and Africa so codesharing with the likes of MS RJ TU and ME would add significantly to the destination network.

Link: http://www.gulf-news.com/Articles/BusinessNF.asp?ArticleID=186103

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6244 times:

We will sue them! And we will ask our government to ban all of them from Germany!

Signed,

Lufthansa


User currently offlineHiJazzey From Saudi Arabia, joined Sep 2005, 872 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6230 times:

Huh?

You've lost me there, Sabena332


User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6214 times:

Quoting HiJazzey (Reply 2):
Huh?

You've lost me there, Sabena332

It was a "signed by post", a joke.

Lufthansa seems to be annoyed by the expansion of a certain Arab airline here in Germany, so I parodied them a bit in my post (actually in 90% of my posts  Wink).

Anyway, to bring the thread back on-topic, great news! Actualy I think that it is time for such an Arabian alliance!

I don't get that an airline like EK, GF or so joined, they would get a major part of connecting passengers since they are serving many destinations in Asia, Australia, Africa, Indian Ocean, etc.

Patrick


User currently offlineHiJazzey From Saudi Arabia, joined Sep 2005, 872 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6192 times:

It works pretty well:

SV and GF are strong in Asia, but weak in Europe and Africa.
TU , RJ , ME , and MS are strong in Europe, but weak in Asia.
MS is strong in east Africa.
TU and ME are strong in west Africa.

So the way I envisage it, SV and GF will focus on developing their Asian network further, and increasingly use codesharing for stations westwards.


User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 6151 times:

Will AH or RAM join this alliance in the future?  Smile


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User currently offlineETStar From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 2103 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6137 times:

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 1):
We will sue them! And we will ask our government to ban all of them from Germany!

Sabena332, are you being anti-Arebite? Big grin And we don't even see EK as being part of this Arabesque team.

I personally do not see this alliance going that far, especially since competition between the parent coutries for each airline is limited to the home airline of each country, and as for the rest, as in other points around the world, certain airlines may need to give up their routes for others, and SV may just become an Arab-Asia airline for example, and MS an Europe-Africa airline etc. And with the pride that goes with the countries having their own airline, and probably the insistence of each airline serving various places by each airline's respective Emir or leader, it will be a tough task. And Gulf Air was not doing that well with having Bahrain, Abu Dhabi and Muscat as home towns (I may be wrong on a city or two), and that had still covered some ground.

Maybe the harominzation of scheds between each respective country, frequent flyer miles and really promoting eachother's services would work for them.


User currently offlineAleksandar From Serbia, joined Jul 2000, 3238 posts, RR: 32
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6128 times:

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 3):
I parodied them a bit in my post

So, join the club. I parody JAT any time they give me chance and opportunity to do so and don't feel sorry about it.  bigthumbsup 

Quoting HiJazzey (Reply 4):
SV and GF are strong in Asia, but weak in Europe and Africa.
TU , RJ , ME , and MS are strong in Europe, but weak in Asia.
MS is strong in east Africa.
TU and ME are strong in west Africa.

Just hours before you started this thread, I've read that article. To me, Arabesk seems like the alliance against "the strong and mighty" airlines in the Arab world (Qatar Airways, Emirates) and it looks that it is the only way for them to survive.

Talking about strong positions, RJ seems quite strong in the North American market, too.

Also, there is one airline that should join the alliance. It is Kuwait Airways. As time goes by, their position in the market seems smaller and smaller. Do they consider joining the Arabesk?

Aleksandar



R-E-S-P-E-C-T
User currently offlineHiJazzey From Saudi Arabia, joined Sep 2005, 872 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6058 times:

Quoting ETStar (Reply 6):
I personally do not see this alliance going that far, especially since competition between the parent coutries for each airline is limited to the home airline of each country, and as for the rest, as in other points around the world, certain airlines may need to give up their routes for others, and SV may just become an Arab-Asia airline for example, and MS an Europe-Africa airline etc. And with the pride that goes with the countries having their own airline, and probably the insistence of each airline serving various places by each airline's respective Emir or leader, it will be a tough task. And Gulf Air was not doing that well with having Bahrain, Abu Dhabi and Muscat as home towns (I may be wrong on a city or two), and that had still covered some ground.

Obviously time will tell.
But I think SV could give up some of it's ailing European routes. Rome and Milan can go without anyone shedding any tears. The only European stations that SV hold dear are LHR FRA and CDG . LHR has healthy traffic, and FRA and CDG have enough for low frequency service on their own or alternatively can have 3/4x weekly service if routed together ( eg. JED-FRA-CDG ). The rest can go, or reduced to seasonal service.


User currently offlineHiJazzey From Saudi Arabia, joined Sep 2005, 872 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6052 times:

Quoting Aleksandar (Reply 7):
Just hours before you started this thread, I've read that article. To me, Arabesk seems like the alliance against "the strong and mighty" airlines in the Arab world (Qatar Airways, Emirates) and it looks that it is the only way for them to survive.

Talking about strong positions, RJ seems quite strong in the North American market, too.

Also, there is one airline that should join the alliance. It is Kuwait Airways. As time goes by, their position in the market seems smaller and smaller. Do they consider joining the Arabesk?

Aleksandar

I won't go as far as say to survive, but with QR and EKs aggressive route expansion, they do need to make sure they don't get marginalised into regional carriers.

As for members, originally it was only six, Yemenia and TunisAir are late entrants. Every possibility that Kuwait might join later.


User currently offlineEK156 From United Arab Emirates, joined May 2005, 765 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6030 times:

I think the alliance is excellent and at a perfect time!!! These airlines will get a push forward from each other at a time when airline like EK and QR are expanding like crazy!!!

As for EK and QR, as well as EY - joining an alliance like this would be suicidal for them. They are already strong by themselves!!! I don't see them joining any alliance!!!


User currently offlineCaptinTuT From United States of America, joined May 2005, 346 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5938 times:
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Quoting EK156 (Reply 10):

I do agree with that. EK and QR doesn't need to go with any alliance.
I do see that this alliance would push the traffic in those 8 airlines to more utilization like canceling the routes that don't have any traffic transfer it on another alliance airlines.

Way to go Arabesc

Regards
TuT



Aircraft Flown: B747-B777-B737-B767-B757-A300-A318-A319-A320-A321-A330-A340-MD80-MD90-CRJ600-CRJ900-E190
User currently offlineLH459 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 886 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5919 times:

Quoting Aleksandar (Reply 7):
RJ seems quite strong in the North American market, too.

RJ picks up a lot of traffic in North America, but it's mostly VFR traffic travelling on consolidated fares--not too much yield. They also have a distinctly poor reputation for service in the North American market, making them a carrier of last resort for premium pax.

Disclaimer: These are my anecdotal observations, based on 7 years of experience selling air travel.



"I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is temporary; the evil it does is permanent" - Ghandi
User currently offlineTS-IOR From Tunisia, joined Oct 2001, 3503 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5957 times:

Probably Tunisair is the strongest in Europe, and the Arabesk Alliance will make of it even stronger. The Tunisian flag carrier flies on a scheduled basis to BCN,MAD,LIS,MRS,NCE,BOD,TLS,LYS,GVA,ZRH,MXP,FCO,MLA,VIE,WAW,PRG,
ARN,CPH,LHR,BRU,LUX,AMS,ATH,IST,BUD,Bratislava,BEG,FRA,MUC,DUS,HAM,
SXF,SXB,CDG and ORY with plans to serve NAP,Corsica,probably others too...

Also if Nouvelair will join the alliance, KBP and LGW should be added to the list.

Great to see Arabs unified for something anyway  Wink


User currently onlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5743 posts, RR: 19
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5820 times:

Quoting EK156 (Reply 10):
I think the alliance is excellent and at a perfect time!!!

I don't quite understand the concept of this alliance, since all other alliances try to acquire their members in different geographic regions as much as possible in order not to compete wuith one another more than inevitably necessary. And here you have this ethnically-accented cluster of Middle Eastern, North African airlines put together based on common denominator of fear from EK an QR. Are the local passengers going to benefit from this project at all or is this alliance going to create a situation of some sort of cartel of airlines with no viable options left?


User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11154 posts, RR: 59
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5743 times:

This regional alliance is going to function differently from the global airline alliances.

It will be very similar to the DL/NW/CO alliance.

The objective is to have the eight airlines integrate their schedules with each other to provide convenient connections to various points around the world. This will result in codeshare agreements as well as frequent flyer program agreements.

MEA for example, which does not have any flights to the Far East can now offer Far East destinations to its customers by connecting them onto Gulf Air which does have an extensive Far East network.

Don't expect EK, QR, or EY to ever join this alliance. These airlines are on their own completely.  Smile

The Arab airlines are facing stiff competition from the major world alliances, namely One World and Star Alliance which is why this regional alliance is being created, to allow them to more effectively compete. The issue is mainly flights to/from Europe.

The Arabesk alliance will not its members from code-sharing with other airlines and will also not prevent any of its members from joining any of the global alliances either. MEA for example has codeshare agreements with Air France and Qatar Airways. These will not be ended as a result of the Arabesk alliance.

This alliance should lower the operating costs of the airlines, especially in marketing costs which in turn, will result in lower fares.

I think this alliance should work out quite nicely. DL/NW/CO seem to be fairing quite well with this mini-alliance they created.

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 5):
Will AH or RAM join this alliance in the future?

Yes, it's very possible. I remember reading that the alliance will be expanded in the future. I know Tunisair is a new addition and was originally not supposed to be part of the alliance, but now they will be.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11154 posts, RR: 59
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5652 times:

I should also mention that this alliance will link each airline to more than 500 destinations and each airline will be able to sell tickets on the other airlines to any destination.

It should be interesting to see how this alliance turns out...

Regards



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineHorus From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 5230 posts, RR: 59
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5563 times:

Quoting HiJazzey (Reply 4):
MS are strong in Europe, but weak in Asia

Egyptair service NRT, KIX, BKK, BOM and now PEK in Asia...hardly a 'weak' presence.

Horus



EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
User currently offlineETStar From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 2103 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 5549 times:

It should be interesting to see... and even now with Royal Jordanian joining oneworld.

User currently offlineHiJazzey From Saudi Arabia, joined Sep 2005, 872 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 5553 times:

It's relative. They are weak in Asia, comparatively.

Let's compare their presence to that great airline of the world  Wink , SV

MAA, COK, CMB, DEL, DAK, HYD, ISB, KHI, LHE, BOM, PEW, BKK, CGK, KUL, MNL, SIN

So they are weak comparatively, likewise, SV is weak in Europe even though they serve LHR, CDG, FRA, MIL, FCO, GVA, PRG


User currently offlineUSADreamliner From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5504 times:

I don't see the point.
I think is smarter to be the only airline from Middle East in a global alliance, than be another middle eastern airline in a middle eastern alliance.
Get the point?
What will happen with flights connecting Europe with Middle East,Asia?Saudia is going to be happy if more people choose MEA or Royal Jordanian?
Or flying to Dubai with Egyptair?

They don't need an American or european carrier?

As soon as Star Alliance,OneWorld or SkyTeam offer to be a member to one of this carriers,the Arabesk Alliance will be gone...


User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11154 posts, RR: 59
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5456 times:

USADreamliner,

You are missing the point of this regional alliance. Check out my previous replies.

I've stated this alliance is a lot like the DL-CO-NW alliance in the USA.

Arabesk puts no restrictions on its members from joining global airline alliances. Infact, Arabesk is going to encourage its members to cooperate with non-Arab airlines.

The objective of Arabesk is to create a common front for these 8 Arab airlines to better serve their customers against foreign competition, particularly from Europe, which is affecting the performance of the Arab airlines. It will also allow Arab airlines to streamline their networks and cooperate with each other.

This is the point of the DL-CO-NW alliance which seems to be doing quite well.

Quoting USADreamliner (Reply 20):
As soon as Star Alliance,OneWorld or SkyTeam offer to be a member to one of this carriers,the Arabesk Alliance will be gone...

This is a random statement that lacks any facts or reason.

As I mentioned earlier, Arabesk will not prevent any of its members from joining any of the major global alliances.

“However, their membership in the Arab air alliance should not preclude them from joining any other alliance.”

Take a look at the goal of the alliance:

“The alliance is called Arabesk and is founded by eight Arab airlines with the aim of better schedule coordination, strengthening their marketing power and creating better connectivity."

“The primary aim is to strengthen the marketing power of the airlines in their own markets and create better connectivity.”

Teffaha said the articles of association would determine how the project could be expanded to include more Arab airlines as well as to cooperate with non-Arab airlines.

Read the rest of the article here:
http://www.gulf-news.com/Articles/BusinessNF.asp?ArticleID=186103

This alliance is not meant to compete with the global alliances. It is meant to serve as a common united front for the Arab airlines against increasingly tough foreign competition, mainly from Europe on flights to and from the Middle East.

Royal Jordanian is joining One World and MEA is heading towards SkyTeam, however their memberships will not affect their membership in Arabesk.

This is not an Arabesk vs. Star Alliance/OneWorld/SkyTeam battle.

Regards

[Edited 2005-10-20 06:58:50]


"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineMSYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 851 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5386 times:

Some of these airlines are really really small , others aren't that small .
The total number of airplanes of the combined airlines would be 244 .
Here is the breakdown :
Saudi Airlines : 101
Egypt Air : 35
Tunis Air : 32
Gulf Air : 29
Royal Jordanian : 19
Yemenia : 11
MEA : 9
Oman : 8

None of these are members of any global alliance such as One World or Star Alliance ( RJ joined "One World" recently )
The alliance will have around 5000 weekly departure . International flights to and from the Middle East increased last year by 29.7% .
This Alliance along with the emerging of low cost no frills Airlines in the Middle East like Mena jet of Lebanon,Air Arabia of the UAE , Atlas Blue of Morocco and Al Jazeera Airlines of Kuwait may be a real threat to the big Airlines like Qatar and Emirates .



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