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Indian Airlines To Lease Widebodies  
User currently offlineAseem From India, joined Feb 2005, 2045 posts, RR: 10
Posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3711 times:

IA floats tenders to lease 12 wide-bodied aircraft
Indian Airlines (IA) has floated tenders to lease 12 wide-bodied aircraft to launch new foreign operations, while its subsidiary Alliance Air would lease two Business Jets for operations of oil major ONGC.

The IA tenders, to be opened on November 21, expresses the carrier's interest in leasing 12 aircraft -- either A-310-300s, A-330, A-340 or Boeing-767 (Extended Range) and B-777s -- for a period of five years, extendable up to seven.

This is the second time this year that IA has floated the tenders for wide-bodied aircraft as the previous tenders did not receive any firm response.

Hindustan Times

My other post was about a news item about the merger of AI and IC. Now this one talks about IC leasing aircraft for international flight. I don't see synergy happening.
Cheers anyway!!
VT-ASJ


ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 48
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3640 times:

Quoting Aseem (Thread starter):
My other post was about a news item about the merger of AI and IC. Now this one talks about IC leasing aircraft for international flight. I don't see synergy happening.

As I understand, the last tender that IC floated did not result in any offers. Since I am hoping for an eventual AI and IC merger, I pray that they are unable to attract any offers for the current tender.


User currently offlineAseem From India, joined Feb 2005, 2045 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3613 times:

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 1):
Since I am hoping for an eventual AI and IC merger, I pray that they are unable to attract any offers for the current tender.

Your wish shall be fulfilled. Amen!!
Who in right mind is submitting a quotation for RFP when used aircrafts are so hard to find. Unless they're happy with some L-1011 or B727 at Mojave.
rgds
VT-ASJ



ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31580 posts, RR: 57
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3498 times:

Thats been around for some time now.....I Feel a merger will solve things better.
Given the choice Why not go for A300-600Rs.Will be Easier to Mantain.
regds
MEL

[Edited 2005-10-12 10:32:45]


Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinePomnath From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3485 times:

When the multiple airlines from the Gulf countries shut down, then we won't have to go as far as the Mojave or other American deserts to look for airplanes.

I got hold of some numbers on yield that some of these airlines achieve, and all those low figures were fine as long as the economies were booming. But where the truth is that despite higher il prices a recession is looming large in their faces, then the first thing on the market will be all those surplus airplanes.

As for IC wide-bodies, just imagine the havoc for competition (and joy for pax) that a few A-300s would create on the metro routes in India in all-economy configurations.


User currently offlineTKMCE From India, joined May 2002, 841 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3463 times:

Hgher Oil Prices - so the governments which prop up the airlines have even more cash to prop up the airlines.......

So where is the collapse going to come ?

The collapse will come instead in the Indian domestic sector..........


User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3399 times:

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 4):
I got hold of some numbers on yield that some of these airlines achieve, and all those low figures were fine as long as the economies were booming. But where the truth is that despite higher il prices a recession is looming large in their faces, then the first thing on the market will be all those surplus airplanes.

Same will happen on the Indian market. When supply exceeds demand and prices drop, it will happen that some carriers go bankrupt.. lots of frames for IC, 9W etc to pick up within India


User currently offlinePomnath From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3352 times:

Quoting TKMCE (Reply 5):
Hgher Oil Prices - so the governments which prop up the airlines have even more cash to prop up the airlines.......

So where is the collapse going to come ?

Economics-101, this is not the right forum for that subject.


User currently offlineAseem From India, joined Feb 2005, 2045 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3346 times:

Quoting TKMCE (Reply 5):

due to rising oil prices, these airlines won't have passengers to fill. They'll keep flying so long as their owners can affort to fly their planes empty.
As Pomnath rightly said, not the best place to discuss this issue!!
rgds
VT-ASJ



ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
User currently offlineLH477 From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 584 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3218 times:

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 4):
I got hold of some numbers on yield that some of these airlines achieve, and all those low figures were fine as long as the economies were booming. But where the truth is that despite higher il prices a recession is looming large in their faces, then the first thing on the market will be all those surplus airplanes.

Gulf Carriers may better be able to handle a recession then some their counterparts in Asia....A good chunk are government owned, and the
the Oil revenues are quiet rich at the moment........



Come on you gunners......!!!!!
User currently offlineMrNiji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3202 times:

Quoting LH477 (Reply 9):
Gulf Carriers may better be able to handle a recession then some their counterparts in Asia....A good chunk are government owned,

A good chunk are government owned also in South Asia..  Wink - and there are big benefits if it remains like this, albeit significantly modified (i.e. full autonomy). The US scenario is scary.. but I better stop, otherwise some users will again chant "Communist, son of Arundathi, or JNU-Whisky Junkey"  sarcastic 


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3167 times:

If any of you think that the Gulf carriers will shut down, keep dreaming.

Perhaps an LCC like Air Arabia may go under, but the gulf states will never let their state carriers - Emirates, Qatar, Etihad - go under.


User currently offlinePomnath From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3127 times:

Way back in the '70s and then the '80s, the Gulf Watnis said the same thing about their shipping fleets too. They went and bought the most expensive ships (though not the best), employed the most expensive ship-management people (though not the best), spent money like there was no tomorrow, and then vanished, leaving the oceans and their ports to the shipping companies of the world again.

Likewise today, take a look at their levels of inefficiency and their dropping standards of service.

Sure, they may not shut down in the true sense of the word, but there will be a whole lot of slightly used aircraft coming up for resale soon.

I mean, who wants to go to UAE for a holiday when Bangkok and Kuala Lumpur beckon?


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3091 times:

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 12):
Likewise today, take a look at their levels of inefficiency and their dropping standards of service.

Please expand. Dubai as a financial and transportation hub is leaps and bounds ahead of the backwater it was in the 70s and 80s.

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 12):
Sure, they may not shut down in the true sense of the word, but there will be a whole lot of slightly used aircraft coming up for resale soon.

I suspect that EK will be dumping their A332s and A343s at some point in time anyways once they reach a certain age.

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 12):
I mean, who wants to go to UAE for a holiday when Bangkok and Kuala Lumpur beckon?

All those people filling the EK, AI and CX flights to Dubai,


User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10371 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3039 times:

A330s, 777s and A340s will be hard to find, Emirates might dump some early 777s soon as new 773ERs keep coming in (the lease-terms for their A340s are longer). 767 are offloaded by the dozen these days (though less of the ERs), so that could be a chance. Otherwise they should knock at the door of NWA and snap some well-kept 742s (if they aren´t too big at least leasing rates should be far cheaper than the one of the 777)!

User currently offlineStealthpilot From India, joined May 2004, 510 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2950 times:

IC and 767ER's???
Will AI help maintain them? Does that make sense? Probably a "something better than nothing" scenario i guess.
-Nikhil



eP007
User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2936 times:

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 13):
I suspect that EK will be dumping their A332s and A343s at some point in time anyways once they reach a certain age.

Not as long as they can't open routes due to lack of aircraft.

Quoting NA (Reply 14):
A330s, 777s and A340s will be hard to find

I agree, I think only a few non-ER 772s from United would be available.

But there should be enough A313s or 767s around.


User currently offlineAseem From India, joined Feb 2005, 2045 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2928 times:

the idea should be to get whichever aircraft they can lay hands on and start the route. By the time better aircrafts are available they'd have generated some revenue, loyalty and recognition.
rgds
VT-ASJ



ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
User currently offlineLH459 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 886 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2911 times:

Quoting MrNiji (Reply 10):
Communist, son of Arundathi, or JNU-Whisky Junkey"

Once again, re-affirming why you're on my ru list! Big grin



"I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is temporary; the evil it does is permanent" - Ghandi
User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2896 times:

Quoting Aseem (Reply 17):
the idea should be to get whichever aircraft they can lay hands on and start the route. By the time better aircrafts are available they'd have generated some revenue, loyalty and recognition.

Which routes are they going to be used on??


User currently offlineAseem From India, joined Feb 2005, 2045 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2871 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 19):
Which routes are they going to be used on??

was in press a while ago that they have been authorized to fly UK and SYD.
rgds
VT-ASJ



ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
User currently offlinePomnath From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2770 times:

Jaysit, ports in Dubai and rest of the UAE for that matter, survives on the entrepot/transhipment business that the Indian sub-Continent gives them. Currently the Iraq and Afghan mess adds to that.

Once that stops, and have you seen how JNPT and other Indian ports do lately, what next?

Likewise, airports. Every additional direct flight to every small airport in India is that many fewer people hubbing "via Dubai etc.", right?

And as for the banking and property boom in Dubai, have a heart, the place does not even have a decent legal system in place as yet for property inheritance rights for outsiders. What are we talking about?


User currently offlineTKMCE From India, joined May 2002, 841 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2776 times:

Post 9/11, literally every western airline faced a huge slump in traffic. The South Asia Middle East route never did. Same thing will happen in the future also.

Virtually all the ME airlines has little or no (like QR) exposure to US. Most of the exposure is to the sub continent and to Europe where they basicallycarry connecting traffic (like QRs KTM and MLE routes or EKs OZ routes).

And the ME routes, beleive me even if low yield, with very very high load factors, all of them are minting money.

Last year the biggest capacity increase during winter open skies were by QR and EK. QR nearly quadrupled flights to stations like HYD and COK.. And remeber this happned in the theoretically "off peak" season for ME traffic .Even under this scenario, the flights went full.


Dont forget that the subcontinent (as well as markets like MNL which aso has a huge labour traffic) are not sensitive to CNN or BBC showng visuals of a bomb explosion in some small town, trigerring off cancellations by the hundreds by jumpy pax scared to death by ill informed media.

Cheers


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31580 posts, RR: 57
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2691 times:

Quoting TKMCE (Reply 5):
The collapse will come instead in the Indian domestic sector..........

The Bubble is predicted to burst in 2007.

If IC chooses A300-600Rs They have their own Mx.The B777s would need UA help until AI AMEs fulfill their 1 yr experience requirement on type.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2660 times:

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 21):
And as for the banking and property boom in Dubai, have a heart, the place does not even have a decent legal system in place as yet for property inheritance rights for outsiders

Interestingly, Islamic Banking is one of the great "sectors" the UAE are building on. And for this, their future is comparatively prosperous.. sometimes the lack of de jure regulations is offset by the reinvirogation of "alternative" approaches.. Of course, it is rather liberal than orthodox islabic banking that is arising here.. look at SIN, the next willing hub for "non-Western" business  Wink


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