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A350 Wider And More Comfortable?  
User currently offlineSunphilips23 From China, joined Aug 2005, 3 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6956 times:

The cabin width of the A350 is 17ft 4in,( www.airbus.com),
the cabin width of the B787 is 18ft 10in,( www.boeing.com).
How could airbus say A350 is wider and more comfortable at their web site??

58 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineXkorpyoh From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 819 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 6845 times:

Quoting Sunphilips23 (Thread starter):
How could airbus say A350 is wider and more comfortable at their web site??

ask Leahy


User currently offlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5032 posts, RR: 43
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 6814 times:

Quoting Sunphilips23 (Thread starter):
How could airbus say A350 is wider and more comfortable at their web site??

Wider and more comfortable than the A330. Don't think they claim it's wider than the 787...


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 6796 times:

18ft 10in is the exterior fuselage width of the B787, not the cabin width.

The A350 will have an interior cabin width slightly greater than that of the A330 (by means of thinner insulation). It will still have a narrower cabin than the B787, but only by several inches, not 18 inches as the OP suggests.


User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12566 posts, RR: 46
Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 6774 times:
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Quoting Sunphilips23 (Thread starter):
How could airbus say A350 is wider and more comfortable at their web site??

Perfectly legitimately! Ignore Xkorpyoh's glib response.

The A350 has the same fuselage cross-section as the A330 (222in), but has a wider cabin. Therefore, they are perfectly correct to say the A350 cabin is wider.

The A350 will have higher cabin humidity and higher cabin pressure than the A330. Therefore, they are perfectly correct to say the A350 cabin is more comfortable.

Easy really. It is spun, naturally, but no more than any claims that Boeing make.

Of course, if you're a complete plane bigot, then everything the other guy says is spin or out-and-out lies, whereas everything your guy says is passed down directly from God.  wink 



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineKhenleyDIA From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 426 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6443 times:

Notice though, that they don't bother to point out that they are referring to the A330. General public would assume (I bet) that they mean the B787 since that is what they keep hearing it is designed to compete with.

KhenleyDIA



Why sit at home and do nothing when you can travel the world.
User currently offlineGman94 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 1239 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6404 times:

Quoting KhenleyDIA (Reply 5):
Notice though, that they don't bother to point out that they are referring to the A330. General public would assume (I bet) that they mean the B787 since that is what they keep hearing it is designed to compete with.

The general public don't give a toss, most don't even know or care what type of aircraft they are getting on. Only the folk on here pick apart and dissect every word that Airbus or Boeing



British Airways - The Way To Fly
User currently offlineJetMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6393 times:

Quoting Sunphilips23 (Thread starter):
How could airbus say A350 is wider and more comfortable at their web site??

Where exactly is that statement?


Regards,
JM


User currently offlineSebolino From France, joined May 2001, 3681 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6387 times:

Quoting KhenleyDIA (Reply 5):
General public would assume (I bet) that they mean the B787

Certainly not.
The general public only knows the 747.


User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4682 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6375 times:

The 787 fuselage is 10cm(4in) wider than the A330´s one, no idea about the additional cabin width.
Airbus claims a 7.6cm(3in) wider cabin for the A350 compared to the A330.

You see, the difference will hardly be noticeable.



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineGeo772 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 519 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6372 times:

Many companies use this kind of wording. Quite often with cars they will talk about best in class dynamics or economy even when the product doesn't shine at either claim. The class might be 5 seat cars between 3.4 and 3.45 meters long. The vehicle might be the only one to meet the class criteria.

Airbus could also be comparing the A350 with the 767 and their claims are just as valid as comparing it with the A330.

Fortunately most people involved in buying an aircraft will make the purchase with a little more information than the general public will ever know about the aircraft.



Flown on A300B4/600,A319/20/21,A332/3,A343,B727,B732/3/4/5/6/7/8,B741/2/4,B752/3,B762/3,B772/3,DC10,L1011-200,VC10,MD80,
User currently offlineDrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5190 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6364 times:

Propaganda in semantics--a good marketing strategy.


Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineFrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3761 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6326 times:

cabin width really only makes a difference if you compare it with the abreast seating configuration.

The A380 is wider than the 747, but will have 3-5-3 seating on the lower deck, and for the guy seating in the center row, let me tell you, he'll be REAL glad he is flying an aircraft that is wider than the 747...

The aircraft width don't mean sh#t to the passenger, they just care about how wide their seat is, and where it is located.

I guess it will all depend on how operators make use of the width of the A350 and 787. If they have the same abreast seating config, then I guess the 787 might boast wider seats/aisles.



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6320 times:

Quoting Sebolino (Reply 8):
Certainly not.
The general public only knows the 747.

even thats not a certainty.....I was in Paris a couple of months ago, and this guy was pointing a 777 to his family telling them that it was a 747!.. crazy 



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineKhenleyDIA From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 426 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6298 times:

Well, I have been wrong before. Oh well.  cry 

KhenleyDIA



Why sit at home and do nothing when you can travel the world.
User currently offlineHamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2744 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6161 times:

Quoting A342 (Reply 9):
Airbus claims a 7.6cm(3in) wider cabin for the A350 compared to the A330.

Correct.

Quoting A342 (Reply 9):
The 787 fuselage is 10cm(4in) wider than the A330´s one, no idea about the additional cabin width.

Wrong. I don't have the respective exterior dimensions, but the 787 will have a cabin 8in wider than the A330 (and thus 5in wider than the A350).


Regards,

Hamlet69



Honor the warriors, not the war.
User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6115 times:

It would be possible given the ambiguous cabin width for some airlines like emirates (if they choose the 787) to do a 3-3-3 just like the have done a 10 abreast on the 777. There are cabin widths that prohibit 9 abreast straight away but the 787 can be a generous 8 or a slightly tight squeeze 9 abreast. Some have done 3-3-3 on 330 so the extra 8 inches on the 787 over the 330 makes this a realistic prospect.

Start slimming down guys.



A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12566 posts, RR: 46
Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5977 times:
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Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 11):
Propaganda in semantics--a good marketing strategy.

Indeed. Something of which both Airbus and Boeing are guilty. That's why they have salesmen and marketing departments.

Shocking eh?



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 977 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5934 times:

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 16):
There are cabin widths that prohibit 9 abreast straight away but the 787 can be a generous 8 or a slightly tight squeeze 9 abreast.

9-abreast seats on a 787 will be comperable to economy seats on the 737NG and 757.


User currently offlinePhollingsworth From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 825 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5885 times:

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 15):
Wrong. I don't have the respective exterior dimensions, but the 787 will have a cabin 8in wider than the A330 (and thus 5in wider than the A350).

Boeing also claims that the cabin will feel even wider. This is because while the A350 and B787 are only 3-5in different at their widest point the Boeing is actually significantly wider at the shoulder and eye-ball level. I seem to remember something on the order of 15-17in. My biggest complain with the A330/340 is how quickly the sidewalls curve inward. They do this to such a degree that by eye-ball level they are narrower than the seats. This is definitely not a problem with the 767 or 777.

The Airbus narrowbodies also have this problem, though not to the same degree, that and they are significantly wider the the 737s at their widest point.


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 20, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5713 times:

Quoting A342 (Reply 9):
The 787 fuselage is 10cm(4in) wider than the A330�s one, no idea about the additional cabin width.
Airbus claims a 7.6cm(3in) wider cabin for the A350 compared to the A330.

You see, the difference will hardly be noticeable.

The B787's composite fuselage allows for about 4 inches of additional cabin width for a given fuselage diameter. So, the B787's cabin width advantage over the A350 should be about the same (5 inches) as the A320's cabin width advantage over the B737. Noticable, but not dramatic.


User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5701 times:

Quoting Phollingsworth (Reply 19):
They do this to such a degree that by eye-ball level they are narrower than the seats.

Because it's round... :O boeing planes have been ovoids all the way until the 787. Ovoids are aerodynamically less efficient than a round cross/section (slightly) and heavier structurally.

Disclaimer: Comparing to 100% efficient ideal planes, not Airbuses.



A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
User currently offlineGlom From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2818 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5665 times:

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 21):
boeing planes have been ovoids all the way until the 787.

The 777 was cylindrical, but it's just that it's a honkin' cylinder.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30978 posts, RR: 86
Reply 23, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5614 times:
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Quoting Zvezda (Reply 20):
The B787's composite fuselage allows for about 4 inches of additional cabin width for a given fuselage diameter. So, the B787's cabin width advantage over the A350 should be about the same (5 inches) as the A320's cabin width advantage over the B737. Noticable, but not dramatic.

Well if it means one-inch(plus) wider seats, like the Airbus narrowbody's cabin offers over the 737, it may be both.  Wink

I for one am powerfully thankful for that extra inch when I am on a UA Airbus vs. a UA 737.


User currently offlineRuscoe From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1566 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5588 times:

From Memory;

Airbus are claiming 208 inches for the internal diameter of 350.

Boeing are claiming 214" internal diameter for 787.

However, Airbus max diam is at floor level, while 787 max diam is actually at shoulder level.

Thus at shoulder level the 787 will have an even greatyer advantage.

I have not seen the figures but I have been told that the Airbus diam at floor level is greater than the 787.

Since we don't sit on the floor, I would expect the 787 to be noticeably more comfortable for the passengers. The 787 at 9 abreast will have seats which are 1/2" wider at the cushion level. It will have more "headroom" also.

(If any of you nare concerned about inward sloping walls, take a look at the 380 upper level).

Ruscoe


25 Post contains images Johnny : Hi, it is the same game we heard for month now.mine is wider than yours... or longer,faster,cheaper,etc... i think if it would be 5inch (12,7cm) more
26 Zvezda : I believe the seats on UA's A320s are 1/2 an inch wider than those on UA's B737s and the aisle is also wider. 1/2 an inch might not sound like much,
27 Atmx2000 : Hmm, may you meant until the 777, which was the first circular cross section from Boeing. The 787 is non circular, and as a result the walls curve at
28 Ikramerica : bingo. but the reason isn't exactly as stated next... not quite It's the floor position within the shape, not the ovoid vs. circle. To increase cargo
29 Incitatus : This is floorspace that gets wasted in economy configuration but in premium classes it is useful as sleeping space. Smart airlines will make the main
30 TinkerBelle : Hope 'general public' doesn't include the media coz they can never get anything right about airplanes.
31 Scbriml : That's not what Airbus said in their press conference at the A350 launch.
32 Sq212 : I simply cannot understand the logic why Airbus is saying the difference will hardly be noticeable, but they're boosting a 4-inch wider interior foot
33 Scbriml : It is probably no different to the 747 upper deck.
34 Stitch : UA's stated seat-width (and my own measurements) show their A320 and A319 equipment having 18" wide seats (same as their 767/777) in Y with an aisle
35 Alitalia744 : If the difference is hardly noticeable, then why do all you Airbus fans constantly talk about how much wider the A320 vs. 737NG? Kettle is that you?
36 Slarty : I thought the A380 will have a vastly superior upper deck compared to the 747, in terms of width and side curve.
37 JetMaster : Yes, it will. Regards, JM
38 Post contains images Zvezda : Yes, the WhaleJet's upperdeck is much more spacious and much closer in feeling to a normal widebody than that of the JumboJet. For overnight flights,
39 Post contains links Boeing7E7 : Page 75 tells a different story: http://www.boeing.com/nosearch/exec_pres/China.pdf
40 EI321 : The general public would not give a crap what model or make of plane they are flying on, nor would they ever look at the airbus website. The majority
41 Post contains images Boeing Nut :
42 Post contains images DAYflyer : As are ALL of the statements regarding the A-350 lately. While I am sure it is a fine aircraft, or will be a fine aircraft when in production, all of
43 Post contains images Scbriml : And Boeing is a certified BS-free zone?
44 Zvezda : Of course not. Boeing produce their share of BS. The embarrassing thing about Airbus is that they produce more than their share of BS. Does that make
45 Aither : Airbus BS is not match compared to Boeing BS. There are so many examples of really big Boeing BS like the Sonic Cruiser, unconsistent driven product f
46 Post contains images A360 : Your wrong my friend. The regular seat config in the 380 lower deck will be 3-4-3, just like on the 747's. So yes, the seats/aisles will be wider. (n
47 A342 : Well, I don´t. I´ve flown them both and couldn´t notice the difference in cabin or seat width.
48 Post contains images A360 : Neither do I... and I don't see people in this forum constantly refering to that! But it would probably be diferent if it was the B320 and A737.... I
49 RIX : - explanations? - what is it? - they do tell. The biggest BS on both sides was, with no close contender, "a Chinese copy - all we need to do is to pu
50 PlaneDane : Aither, The Sonic Cruiser was BS? - It was a product proposal that failed to generate enough interest among airlines. Please, tell me how this consti
51 Ruscoe : You may be interested to know that work continues at a low level on the Sonic Cruiser concept. I admit to not having personally been inside the upper
52 Trex8 : maybe I'm just odd but I really don't understand the infatuation some have with ceiling height. its hardly like you stand up the whole flight! I woul
53 N754PR : Reason I take Airbus over Boing is the 2 seats by the windows over the 3 seats on MOST boeings. This is the reason I've still not been on a 777 and ta
54 UAL747 : I personally can't wait until both airliners come and and we see the Boeing fans tooting that there is an EXTRA 5 inches, and by God, it's damn notice
55 RIX : - it was not about ceiling height but about cabin width on head level [of a sitting passenger] - why, all 767s and many 777s have 2 seats by the wind
56 Zvezda : Good point! The cabin width advantage of the B787 over the A350 is almost exactly the same as the cabin width advantage of the A320 over the B737. Ad
57 A342 : Well, as I said above I can´t notice the A320/B737 difference which is 6in at 6-abreast, so how could I notice the B787/A350 difference which is 5in
58 RIX :
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